British Subject not EU citizen?

[JAJ]

I was actually thinking of quoting that example, but since I had never seen one of those passports I didn't want to commit myself . So a Manx person with an endorsment in his or her passport is now an EU citizen?

They always have been "United Kingdom nationals for EU purposes" despite the endorsement.

[JAJ]

Currently the IND is quoting 1.93 months for adult registrations (see http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/nationality/), although obviously this must vary, and your case would be more complicated than some.

I'm not sure if Ray's case would be complicated at all. His nationality/immigration status as a British subject with Right of Abode has already been established by the Home Office. So all he needs to do is show 5 years residence in the United Kingdom for the application to be granted.

If he applies now it should be granted long before March. Even with the extra month or so required for a ceremony (British subjects and other British nationals were exempt from the oath until 2004).

[JAJ]

My many thanks to all who have given very complete answers to my questions. I will have to think seriously about registering as a BC. Having lived in the UK since my father retired from the British Army in 1954, I haven't ever considered myself to be anything other than British until the 1981 act reared its ugly head. It wasn't until I actually needed a passport that the reality of my situation was put into print.

The 1981 Act isn't what created your problem. Your status was created by the British Nationality Act 1948.

Had you been born in the exact same circumstances in another Dominion - eg Australia, Canada or New Zealand - you would almost certainly have become a citizen of that country in 1947-49 and not held any form of UK citizenship. And had India enacted a law like Australia's, for example, you would have become an Indian citizen.

It was expected that a small number of people connected with these Dominions would not be "caught" by the citizenship laws of those countries, and in those cases the UK granted them UK & Colonies citizenship (known as the "mop-up" provisions). A few cases of people who acquired UK citizenship this way crop up from time to time, but it's not very common.

But the initial citizenship laws of India and Pakistan excluded a lot of people, so the UK never activated the "mop-up" provision to give UK citizenship to those so excluded connected with those countries.

Hence, what was expected to be a "temporary" status of British subject without citizenship, effectively became permanent for quite a few people connected with India and Pakistan before 1949.

And you are "British" - just a British subject, not a British citizen.

Does anyone know the lead time for registration at the moment? We hope to go abroad again in March and don't want to be left with my passport in the hands of the IND.

As others have said, average Home Office processing time of 2 months. Registrations get priority over naturalisation. Add a month or so for a citizenship ceremony afterwards.

You can send a solicitor certified copy of your passport (all pages) to the Home Office instead of the original. In fact as a general rule, all documents you send, including your proof of residence, should be certified copies.

Incidentally, if you have been living in the UK since the 1950s, you have been entitled to apply for registration as a British citizen (or UK & Colonies citizen prior to 1983) all along.

[Christophe]

Currently the IND is quoting 1.93 months for adult registrations (see http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/nationality/), although obviously this must vary, and your case would be more complicated than some.

I'm not sure if Ray's case would be complicated at all.

Let's hope not! If he does decide to apply for registration as a British citizen, it will be interesting to learn, if he will tell us, how long it does take.

[JAJ]

Let's hope not! If he does decide to apply for registration as a British citizen, it will be interesting to learn, if he will tell us, how long it does take.

He might wish to make an application (and ensure it's received at the Home Office) before 4 December.

This is when the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality (Commencement no 3) Order 2006 takes effect:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20062838.htm
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/60013--a.htm#58

What this does is extend the requirement for an applicant to be of "good character" to most categories of registration as a British citizen. It has applied to naturalisation applicants for a long time.

The Home Office IND website has also been updated:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... ty/advice/

Interestingly, applicants for registration under section 4B and Schedule 2 to the Act (generally those who are otherwise stateless) will not be required to show good character.

[JAJ]

I am a British Subject under the 1981 Nationality Act with right of abode in the UK. I have a red UK passport saying that and it has 'European Union' on the front cover.

However, the IND have told me that my being a British subject and not a citizen does not entitle me to EU citizenship and that I have to get visas from EU countries before visiting them.

This also came up in Parliament recently (8 November):
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... 8a.92768.h

"Liam Byrne (Minister of State, Home Office) ... There are no visa requirements for British citizens or British subjects who fall under Article 17 of the EC Treaty who wish to travel to countries in the EU."

In the same answer it is stated that the British National (Overseas) passport may be accepted in the near future for visa free tourist or short term business entry to the Schengen countries (the HKSAR passport is already accepted).

[JAJ]

This issue seems to be coming up a lot,although more commonly with Irish born British subjects. This reported case concerns Cyprus:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main. ... ase103.xml

Bulgaria is also mentioned as a problem, although that may not be legal now they have joined the EU.

There is little point in having "the law" on your side if no-one understands that law. And for those British subjects resident in the UK, the last paragraph contains good advice:

"There are thousands of Irish-born British Subjects living in the UK who have not applied for full British Citizenship. The US and Canada are among the countries that do not recognise these "Subject" passports without a valid visa - even for transit passengers ...

... I would strongly advise Irish holders of British Subject passports to apply for full British citizenship ... as airport staff now look at the fine detail."

[Marco 72]

By the way, what might have happened to the originator of this discussion if his mother hadn't been born on British soil, but rather came from a similar background as his father? Apparently the reason why he got his right of abode was that his mother was born in the UK. Could they have tried to have him deported (can't imagine where to)?

[JAJ]

By the way, what might have happened to the originator of this discussion if his mother hadn't been born on British soil, but rather came from a similar background as his father? Apparently the reason why he got his right of abode was that his mother was born in the UK. Could they have tried to have him deported (can't imagine where to)?

In a situation like that, he'd still have been a British subject but without Right of Abode. Considering that he was apparently brought to the United Kingdom as a child, then it would be necessary to see what immigration permit was given at the time.

Someone like that may have been considered as having ILR if the passport was stamped at the time. Or might have it automatically if arrived in the UK before the date in 1962 when immigration control for "Commonwealth citizens" was introduced.

Failing all else, he would probably have had to apply for ILR under the 14 year rule, wait for a year, and then apply for registration as a British citizen (or naturalisation immediately, if married to a British citizen).