Entering the UK with naturalisation certificate

[mahil_2000]

i called them. It takes 2 mins. Ring 0845 010 5200.

JAJ wrote:

It's not temporary. Section 6 of the Immigration (Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode in the United Kingdom) Regulations 2006 provides that with effect from 21 December 2006, a person cannot be issued with an ROA stamp if they hold:

- a valid British citizen passport (or identity card).
- a valid British subject passport with ROA endorsement (or identity card)

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20063145.htm

[Dawie]

i called them. It takes 2 mins. Ring 0845 010 5200.

JAJ wrote:

It's not temporary. Section 6 of the Immigration (Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode in the United Kingdom) Regulations 2006 provides that with effect from 21 December 2006, a person cannot be issued with an ROA stamp if they hold:

- a valid British citizen passport (or identity card).
- a valid British subject passport with ROA endorsement (or identity card)

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20063145.htm

I really don't see what you're getting at.

If you are a British Citizen passport holder who holds the citizenship of another country, there is absolutely no requirement that you have to use BOTH passports to enter the UK.

What is clear is that the UK is trying to force British citizens to enter the UK with British passports and not with foreign passports that have ROA stickers in them. This is pretty understable though, the UK has been historically pretty relaxed in this regard.

Many other countries have laws that force you to use the passport of that country to enter it if you are a citizen of that country. For example, using the UK/South Africa example again, if I was a dual citizen of the UK and South Africa, South Africa has a law that says that South African citizens with more than one nationality HAVE to enter and leave South Africa with a South African passport, otherwise they risk imprisonment and/or a massive fine. The US has a similar law.

[Christophe]

Many other countries have laws that force you to use the passport of that country to enter it if you are a citizen of that country. For example, using the UK/South Africa example again, if I was a dual citizen of the UK and South Africa, South Africa has a law that says that South African citizens with more than one nationality HAVE to enter and leave South Africa with a South African passport, otherwise they risk imprisonment and/or a massive fine. The US has a similar law.

Australian citizens must similarly enter and leave Australia on an Australian passport (with few exceptions), although I don't know that they risk imprisonment or a massive fine if they don't, rather long delays while their status is ascertained.

i called them. It takes 2 mins. Ring 0845 010 5200.

Actually, I would say that the advice you were given is bad advice - as, unfortunately, advice from these sort of helplines so often is. As far as I know there is no official advice from the Home Office to this effect: if anyone can point me to it (in writing), it would be interesting to see it.

There is absolutely no need for a dual British-Other citizen to present anything but his or her British passport to the passport control officer on entry to the UK, and neither is there any merit in doing so.

The question of missing stamps is hardly relevant - taking a broad view - because many countries do not stamp passports on entry or exit, or do so only sporadically. Anyone trying to trace a passport holder's travels using passport stamps would be likely to find it very difficult or impossible in many cases.

The only issue at stake that I can see would arise if a person were using a non-British passport (for travel outside the UK) to which he or she is not entitled, perhaps because the laws of the other country do not permit a person to hold its citizenship plus another citizenship. Apart from the rights or wrongs of using a passport to which one is not entitled, I'd be surprised if the immigration officers at UK ports of entry would be happy to stamp the non-British passports of British passport holders, although some might agree to do it (possibly with added comments such as 'by request' or 'entered the UK on British passport', though). Does anyone know if they will agree to do this?

But in general presenting two passports when not asked for them is not a good idea - one should, of course, never deny having a second citizenship and should present the other passport if it is asked for, but doing so if not asked seems to me to be a recipe for confusion.

It would be interested to hear other people's views!

[mahil_2000]

Actually, I would say that the advice you were given is bad advice - as, unfortunately, advice from these sort of helplines so often is. As far as I know there is no official advice from the Home Office to this effect: if anyone can point me to it (in writing), it would be interesting to see it.

Maybe, but right now the only option for me to do is call up the home office helpline. She wasn't sure either, she said "just use both passports when you travel". So there is no real clarity on the issue within the Home office.

The question of missing stamps is hardly relevant - taking a broad view - because many countries do not stamp passports on entry or exit, or do so only sporadically. Anyone trying to trace a passport holder's travels using passport stamps would be likely to find it very difficult or impossible in many cases.

Very true.

The only issue at stake that I can see would arise if a person were using a non-British passport (for travel outside the UK) to which he or she is not entitled, perhaps because the laws of the other country do not permit a person to hold its citizenship plus another citizenship. Apart from the rights or wrongs of using a passport to which one is not entitled, I'd be surprised if the immigration officers at UK ports of entry would be happy to stamp the non-British passports of British passport holders, although some might agree to do it (possibly with added comments such as 'by request' or 'entered the UK on British passport', though). Does anyone know if they will agree to do this?

I don't see why they wouldn't, they just turn to a page and bang bang. Thats what happens when I enter with ILR presently.

The stamp just says "Arrival Heathrow and the date".

[Christophe]

She wasn't sure either...

Therein lies the heart of the matter, I suspect - and to be fair it's not the sort of question that a Home Office helpline is set up to answer.

[tdpff3]

I called up the IND and below is their response.

If you are a naturalized BC then ILR on your non-BC passport is valid. If you aquired BC by birth and you also hold a non-BC passport then get ROA stamp on that passport.

[Dawie]

I called up the IND and below is their response.

If you are a naturalized BC then ILR on your non-BC passport is valid. If you aquired BC by birth and you also hold a non-BC passport then get ROA stamp on that passport.

This statement is wrong on both counts.

Firstly, it is quite clear from the documentation presented to newly naturalised citizens that their ILR is no longer valid. By definition, ILR cannot be valid for a British citizen because a valid ILR sticker implies that you are still under immigration control, which clearly as a British citizen you are not.

Secondly, the law has changed with regard to ROA stickers. If you are a British citizen and you hold a British citizen passport, you can no longer obtain a ROA sticker inside your non-UK passport. This has already been mentioned several times on this particular thread.

[Dawie]

I called up the IND and below is their response.

If you are a naturalized BC then ILR on your non-BC passport is valid. If you aquired BC by birth and you also hold a non-BC passport then get ROA stamp on that passport.

This statement is wrong on both counts.

Firstly, it is quite clear from the documentation presented to newly naturalised citizens that their ILR is no longer valid. By definition, ILR cannot be valid for a British citizen because a valid ILR sticker implies that you are still under immigration control, which clearly as a British citizen you are not.

Secondly, the law has changed with regard to ROA stickers. If you are a British citizen and you hold a British citizen passport, you can no longer obtain a ROA sticker inside your non-UK passport. This has already been mentioned several times on this particular thread.

Well, exactly what I thought might happen as happened. I became a British citizen a few days ago but I have to go on a business trip that I can't cancel and of course I don't have enough time to obtain a British passport before I travel leaving me no option but to travel on my South African passport with ILR and a copy of my naturalisation certificate.

I have a question though for anyone who might know the answer. If I were to accidentally lose my South African passport while overseas (the country I am travelling to is a Schengen country) what would the local British Embassy's attitude be towards me as far as helping me out with travel documentation to get back to the UK bearing in mind I am a British citizen, but I would have entered the particular country on my South African passport and I have never had any form of UK travel document before.

[davidm]

Well, exactly what I thought might happen as happened. I became a British citizen a few days ago but I have to go on a business trip that I can't cancel and of course I don't have enough time to obtain a British passport before I travel leaving me no option but to travel on my South African passport with ILR and a copy of my naturalisation certificate.

I have a question though for anyone who might know the answer. If I were to accidentally lose my South African passport while overseas (the country I am travelling to is a Schengen country) what would the local British Embassy's attitude be towards me as far as helping me out with travel documentation to get back to the UK bearing in mind I am a British citizen, but I would have entered the particular country on my South African passport and I have never had any form of UK travel document before.

I don't think you will have any problem in travelling on your South African passport with ILR- and I were you I won't lose it If you lose it you can always go to the South African embassy and get a replacement. Or ask someone to collect the UK travel document and ask it to be sent to you (which hopefully would come soon) and travel on that.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Well, exactly what I thought might happen as happened. I became a British citizen a few days ago but I have to go on a business trip that I can't cancel and of course I don't have enough time to obtain a British passport before I travel leaving me no option but to travel on my South African passport with ILR and a copy of my naturalisation certificate.

I have a question though for anyone who might know the answer. If I were to accidentally lose my South African passport while overseas (the country I am travelling to is a Schengen country) what would the local British Embassy's attitude be towards me as far as helping me out with travel documentation to get back to the UK bearing in mind I am a British citizen, but I would have entered the particular country on my South African passport and I have never had any form of UK travel document before.

First off, have a good trip! Take photocopies of the documents with you and leave a photocopy in the UK.

The British consulate's job is to help British citizens. And you are one of them, and even have a good story to go with it. Remember they also issue first passports to British citizens who live in that country and may never have been to the UK.

A friend who lives in the UK recently travelled to Europe on her US passport (which lacks any UK markings), and took along a photocopy of her UK passport (which was being renewed). She had previously asked a UK border guard if that would be ok, and was told it would be fine. She is back home and I think she had no problems at all using the EU line.

I would even suggest you do not take the original naturalization certificate. Most likely you do not have to produce anything more than your (non UK) passport. Worst case you have to show them the photocopy, and worst worst case is you must wait while they check your story (if they have nothing better to do).

[Marco 72]

The British consulate's job is to help British citizens. And you are one of them, and even have a good story to go with it. Remember they also issue first passports to British citizens who live in that country and may never have been to the UK.

I don't know if this is true, but I have read on a few occasions that you are only entitled to British consular protection while travelling abroad on a British passport, regardless of your citizenship.

[Christophe]

The British consulate's job is to help British citizens. And you are one of them, and even have a good story to go with it. Remember they also issue first passports to British citizens who live in that country and may never have been to the UK.

I don't know if this is true, but I have read on a few occasions that you are only entitled to British consular protection while travelling abroad on a British passport, regardless of your citizenship.

It's a bit of a grey area. It is certainly true that if you are in the country of your other citizenship you are not generally able to count on consular assistance, although British overseas missions (say that they) will always try to help - but, for example, if you were in prison it would not be incumbent on the home country to permit consular access (though they might choose to).

But even in your country of other citizenship (barring the circumstance that you are in prison!) you would be entitled to go to a British mission and ask for their help in securing identification that would enable you to enter the United Kingdom. It doesn't follow that they would be able to help you particularly promptly but they would help you.

As an aside, in some cases, of course, it's difficult to determine what passport one is travelling on, particularly in countries (e.g. Switzerland) that don't seem to stamp passports rigorously regardless of the nationality of the holder.

But broadly speaking, yes: if you want to rely on British consular assistance you are probably better travelling as a British citizen on a British passport.

[Dawie]

Cool, thanks for your replies guys.

I am pretty sure that as a British citizen they would be obliged me to help me regardless of how or with what travel documents I entered the country I am going to. At the very least they would be able to issue me with a single-use emergency UK travel document.

By the way, if anyone is wondering why I wouldn't just get a new passport from the South African embassy if I lost my passport, it is because they currently take 4 months to issue a new passport! They do issue emergency temporary passports but the UK government banned the use of South African temporary passports last year because of increasing fraud related to their use.

[Dawie]

The British consulate's job is to help British citizens. And you are one of them, and even have a good story to go with it. Remember they also issue first passports to British citizens who live in that country and may never have been to the UK.

I don't know if this is true, but I have read on a few occasions that you are only entitled to British consular protection while travelling abroad on a British passport, regardless of your citizenship.

That is true to a certain extent however the issuing of UK travel documents does not count as consular protection. It's simply a service they are obliged to offer to all British citizens.

[mahil_2000]

So, Dawie, are you planning to take photocopies of the naturalisation certificate? Let us know what you are planning to do? I wonder if you will be able to use the EU line from now on.

I think consular help is provided to you in every country apart from South Africa (your 2nd nationality) and if you have any certified proof of UK nationality on you, then I doubt it should be a problem (depends on the people you deal with on the ground) and the situation that we are talking about (natural disaster, prison etc). Or if you contact the FCO and ask them about consular protection, they will be better able to inform you.

Enjoy your trip.

[Marco 72]

I have checked the FCO's website and apparently it is necessary to travel on a British passport to have access to consular protection. Page 9 of this guide states

"If you are a dual national travelling on your British passport in a third state (that is, a country of which you are not a national), we will offer you our full support. If you are travelling on the passport of your other nationality, we will normally direct you to that state's local Embassy, High Commission or Consulate. So, for example, if you are a dual US-British national travelling in France and you used your US passport when you entered France, then we would normally direct you to the nearest US Embassy or Consulate for help. We may make an exception to this rule if, having looked at the circumstances of the case, we consider that there is a special humanitarian reason to do so."

It might even be argued that someone with a fraudolently obtained British passport is more entitled to consular protection than a British citizen travelling on another passport. In 1945 William Joyce was sentenced to hang for treason against the King, even though he was not a British subject (having been born in the US to an Irishman who had previously become a naturalised US citizen).

"During the processing of the charges Joyce's United States nationality came to light, and it seemed that he would have to be acquitted, based not upon innocence of the charges of aiding the Nazi war effort but rather upon a lack of jurisdiction; he could not be convicted of betraying a country that was not his own. However, the Attorney General, Sir Hartley Shawcross, successfully argued that Joyce's possession of a British passport, even though he had miss-stated his nationality to get it, entitled him (until it expired) to British diplomatic protection in Germany and therefore he owed allegiance to the King at the time he commenced working for the Germans. It was on this technicality, confirmed by the Court of Appeal and the House of Lords (on a split decision), that Joyce was convicted and sentenced to death."

[JAJ]

"If you are a dual national travelling on your British passport in a third state (that is, a country of which you are not a national), we will offer you our full support. If you are travelling on the passport of your other nationality, we will normally direct you to that state's local Embassy, High Commission or Consulate. So, for example, if you are a dual US-British national travelling in France and you used your US passport when you entered France, then we would normally direct you to the nearest US Embassy or Consulate for help. We may make an exception to this rule if, having looked at the circumstances of the case, we consider that there is a special humanitarian reason to do so."

I think what they are saying is reasonable, that in the first instance, the "other" country would normally provide consular protection. However if they can't or won't, then British authorities will get involved.

[Dawie]

Just to follow up....

In the end I decided to enter the UK last night just like a normal ILR holder would. I filled in my landing card (for the last time!), gritted my teeth and handed over my passport. The IO quickly found my ILR sticker, stamped my passport and gave it back to me and that was it.

I failed to mention last time that I would be travelling by Eurostar. As anyone who's travelled by Eurostar knows, the two terminals in Paris and Brussels are manned by UK immigration officials who decide right then and there whether or not to admit you to the UK. I thought it would be prudent not to cause any kind of fuss with UK immigration officials outside the UK, primarily because any doubt about my admissibility could have delayed my return to the UK by a few hours or even a few days in the worst case scenario.

At least if I had arrived by plane, any confrontation would have been AFTER landing in the UK.

So in the end I travelled without any problems as a South African citizen with my SA passport and ILR despite being a British citizen and the ILR being technically invalid.

[SK1]

So in the end I travelled without any problems as a South African citizen with my SA passport and ILR despite being a British citizen and the ILR being technically invalid.

Dawie,

Were you a bit nervous? So, you decided at the last moment not to produce your Certificate?

Like you said that was the last time you'd enter the UK with the groen mamba...lol.

SK1

[Dawie]

Yeah, I was nervous because I wasn't sure whether or not there would be some issue with my ILR being invalid and whether or not that would show up on their systems.

Also I didn't want to produce my certificate unless I was specifically asked about my British nationality. I was so tired and keen to get home after my trip that I didn't have the energy to try and explain my situation!

[mahil_2000]

Thats good to hear everything went okay. So, in any emergency or if your British passport is not available or something, you can still enter the country using the South African passport with the ILR.

[Docterror]

So, in any emergency or if your British passport is not available or something, you can still enter the country using the South African passport with the ILR

Will only South African passports with ILR do and not any other passports ?

[Dawie]

So, in any emergency or if your British passport is not available or something, you can still enter the country using the South African passport with the ILR

Will only South African passports with ILR do and not any other passports ?

Hehe, no, I certainly wasn't implying that. The principle would apply to any passport regardless of nationality.

[SK1]

So in the end I travelled without any problems as a South African citizen with my SA passport and ILR despite being a British citizen and the ILR being technically invalid.

Guys,

I followed this thread and I may find myself in this situation soon. I (wife and I) am planning on going on holiday in early June. My application is still sitting with the BIA (2 months now) and not sure how long it may end up taking. I have requested (and received) our passports back and my wife has already been Naturalised previously but haven't applied for a BC passport yet.

It should be okay for us to travel with our SA passports with ILR stamps? Even if I get approval but don't have time to apply for BC passports before going on holiday? Or should we just wait until we get it all sorted, but by then we'd probably miss out on cheaper flights and accommodation depending if there's still availability?

Any comments appreciated.

Regards

SK

[tdpff3]

SKI: It should be okay for us to travel with our SA passports with ILR stamps?

I just returned from USA on my non-British passport with ILR, no problem.

You have a valid passport and a valid ILR, so travel freely with no worries.