Immigration checks at stations

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:41 am

Christophe wrote:
jes2jes wrote:Well, this morning, I saw 4 IND staff at the Greenford Underground station questioning a young man who looks "Polish" to me.

I wonder if there is any legal basis for this stop and search procedure but what can you say? I will never carry my passport with me since no Brits (or whites) do not carry their ppts with them in their day to day activities.

I guess it is profiling at its best. What a shame we are going back to the Nazi days. Hail Britain!
Not disputing what you say at all, but without knowing why this person was stopped it's a bit difficult to draw any firm conclusions.

Chris:

With all that is being reported, I do not need a reason as to the WHY IND staff will be stopping people. Why do you think IND staff will come all the way from their offices to tube stations with the weather not favourable? I do not think they are just there greeting people and extending John Reeds love to immigrants. Ofcourse, I do not know exactly why and I must say this from inference based on all that has been happening.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:31 pm

I wonder what would happen if you simply refused to respond to one of these goons if they stopped you in a tube station. If you were out to prove a point (and had a few hours to spare) you could simply tell them that you won't say another word to them without your lawyer present. Watch as they waste hours taking you to the police station etc only to find out that you are clean as a whistle and they've just wasted a few hours of their lives. You would be well within your rights to tell them that you will not talk to them without a lawyer present even if it's just for a routine stop. Basically waste as much of their time as legally possible.

Or ask them for identification, badge number, etc. If they refuse then remind them that impersonating a police officer is a criminal offence.

If everyone did this maybe they would think twice before stopping innocent people on the tube.

Marie B · Post by **Marie B** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:36 pm

My husband does just that (as I stated in my earlier post in this thread). Three times he's been stopped in the past 6 months, once they let him go straight away because of his 'Irish' accent (he's Albanian). The second and third time he refused to answer any of their questions, didn't tell them his name, what visa he is on and refused to use the fingerprint scanner they had. Both times they let him go after about 10mins without even finding out his name.

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:06 pm

Isn't this discriminating against tube and bus users?

Is the message to be that if you look foreign you should always use your car if you don't want to be harrassed by immigration officers?

Seriously, though, it doesn't look like you need to carry ID. It appears they are establishing your legality by phoning in your details for a colleague to check on the computers.

If you are legal the issue here is the profiling, the embarrassment, the inconvenience and delay. If you are illegal the issue is that you could get caught (unless you know DOB and all the main details of a similarly aged legal ... and have a creditcard or something in his name).

But, it's hilarious that they are throwing so much of effort into this. They spent probably several million pounds the last time and didn't make the slightest dent in the 500,000 "illegals" who are the target.

Dawie, they aren't supposed to stop anyone unless they have reason to believe he has violated immigration law. Their get out clause is that the definition of "reason to believe" is flaky. If, in their opinion you looked uncomfortable as they approached, they have "reason to believe".

Marco 72 · Post by **Marco 72** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:26 pm

Dawie wrote:I wonder what would happen if you simply refused to respond to one of these goons if they stopped you in a tube station. If you were out to prove a point (and had a few hours to spare) you could simply tell them that you won't say another word to them without your lawyer present. Watch as they waste hours taking you to the police station etc only to find out that you are clean as a whistle and they've just wasted a few hours of their lives. You would be well within your rights to tell them that you will not talk to them without a lawyer present even if it's just for a routine stop. Basically waste as much of their time as legally possible.

The problem is that you don't have the same rights with immigration officers as you have with ordinary police officers. See here. For example, there is no right to legal advice and no statutory limit to detention. See here about the case of a British citizen of Pakistani origin who was held in immigration detention for 48 days, with no access to lawyers and no way of proving his claim to British citizenship (his passport was at home).

British · Post by **British** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:59 pm

As i read and hear more and more of these appalling events in this country, i feel so proud about my ex-home country India! In my 27 years of my stay in India, i have never heard of stuff like this! And remember it is a developing nation as well! (unlike the so-called developed nations!)

Appalling, indeed!

So, all these things prove that if one looks like a foreigner, even though he is a British citizen, he is done!!!!! Unbeleivable!!!

I just cannot wait to move back to India permamantly (which i have planned to do in the next 1-1.5 years!)

:-) and if I can do this by the end of this year before the potentially very abusive and privacy invading ID card regime is made compulsory, it will be really great!

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:36 pm

Marco 72 wrote:
Dawie wrote:I wonder what would happen if you simply refused to respond to one of these goons if they stopped you in a tube station. If you were out to prove a point (and had a few hours to spare) you could simply tell them that you won't say another word to them without your lawyer present. Watch as they waste hours taking you to the police station etc only to find out that you are clean as a whistle and they've just wasted a few hours of their lives. You would be well within your rights to tell them that you will not talk to them without a lawyer present even if it's just for a routine stop. Basically waste as much of their time as legally possible.
The problem is that you don't have the same rights with immigration officers as you have with ordinary police officers. See here. For example, there is no right to legal advice and no statutory limit to detention. See here about the case of a British citizen of Pakistani origin who was held in immigration detention for 48 days, with no access to lawyers and no way of proving his claim to British citizenship (his passport was at home).

Thanks for that link. I must say it's quite chilling how many powers immigration officers have compared to police officers. By implication it seems that the government places more importance to immigration offences than it does to criminal offences such as murder and rape. That is perhaps the most shocking of all.

I actually read about that case of that British Asian a few days ago. He was from Muslim Indian origin. In the end though I doubt he would ever have been deported to Pakistan because the Pakistani authorities would never have accepted him for repatriation because he wasn't a Pakistani citizen. Indeed even if he were a Pakistani citizen, as soon as he was deported to Pakistan, his relatives could have posted his British passport to him and he could have been back on the next plane to the UK.

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:57 pm

British wrote:As i read and hear more and more of these appalling events in this country, i feel so proud about my ex-home country India! In my 27 years of my stay in India, i have never heard of stuff like this!

No offence but it means you are ignorant of what actually happens in India...

Here they stop you and just ask you questions but in India they slap / hit you first and then ask you questions next.. And the main targets being people from a certain religion...

They will harrass the person like anything and one has to bribe himself out the mess...

Before you ask me how do I know all this, I have spent the first 28 yrs of my life living in Bombay (Mumbai) before I moved to the UK.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:09 pm

olisun wrote:
British wrote:As i read and hear more and more of these appalling events in this country, i feel so proud about my ex-home country India! In my 27 years of my stay in India, i have never heard of stuff like this!
No offence but it means our are ignorant of what actually happens in India...

Here they stop you and just ask you questions but in India they slap / hit you first and then ask you questions next.. And the main targets being people from a certain religion...

And Cricket teams returning after World cup defeats!!

Anyone seen the film 'Children Of Men' recently? Set in 2027 it paints a very Nationalistic Britain, caging 'fugies' at railway stations and the creation of Guantanamo bay type camps made from South Coast-ish towns in this case Bexhill.

Great film tho - i liked it - different from the usually mindless crap we have to watch....

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Immigration checks at stations