Visa app help plz

[357mag]

Cheers adel and may your God go with you.

[dalebutt]

If she received her visa from London before you embark on your journey to Ireland, you will not need to get married except you wanted to, if she has already been recognised as a family member by the embassy, there will be no further burden of proof to demonstrate the subsistence of your relationship.

[357mag]

2 if's in there dale,

I shall order train and ferry tickets tomorrow to put copy in bundle, get postal order and self addressed envelope tuesday, final check and signings wednesday and in the post that night all being well.
Plan to go 1st August. Only thing left is where to stay, it's a bit ealy to arrange lodgings so maybe I book one night at travellodge.

[dalebutt]

Try and write an accompany letter in support of the application, stating the relevant EU law you wish to rely on. Good luck!

[357mag]

Tickets booked for 1st August, next hard thing is finding somewhere to stay over there, pity theres no joined up writing on here and people teaming up.

[357mag]

Got out tickets in post this morning

visa application going in this afternoon containing
passports of each
passport photo of each
covering letters by both
letter of support by my daughter
bank statements of each plus joint account
copy of travel itinerary
photocopy of tickets
affidavits by each sworn and witnessed by commisioner of oaths
evidence of a holiday together
gas bill with both names
tv licence with her name
letter showing divorce petition submitted january

plus photocopies of everything

[357mag]

Visa application returnred because

Your application for a visa to enter Ireland cannot be processed because you did not submit all the required documentation.

4. Evidence of your permission to reside in the UK (stamp, sticker or residence card) valid for at least 3 months after your date of departure from Ireland

[Yana31]

Why dont you just marry her? I am sure once that is done you solve half your problems!

[dalebutt]

How does marrying her solve the problem of the returned application? @ 357mag, how did you make the application? They cannot demand lawful residence in the UK before her application can be processed, did you write any letter accompanying her application? If any, what are the grounds you relied upon in the letter? Did you follow wiggsy's method?

[357mag]

I cant see anything in wiggsys case that relates to this. maybe I miss something.

I wrote in the covering letter that refusal would deter me from execising treaty rights
that we would like to get married in ireland
our initial intention is to stay between 3 and 6 months although we have a long term plan to buy a property and start a business in the republic
It is my desire to exercise my treaty rights under 2004/32/EU particularly exercising my right of free movement under Article 21(1) TFEU for up to 90 days followed by an application for family permit, and I would like my partner to travel with me and accompany me to continue our family life.

[dalebutt]

Well Wigssy's spouse had no residence permit in the UK at the time of her application, they made a bit of a fuss, they later recognised her right to a visa of course, you will need to establish communication by email, so you can have proof of any correspondence between you and that office. They will be in the wrong to ultimately to refuse to process the application.

If you wish to pursue the matter as it is, I can assist you with citing authorities, although there isn't a caselaw that has dealt with this type of issues, the INIS does admit that , refusing to accept such application would not reflect the spirit of the directive.

[357mag]

sorry for the delay I was reading wiggsys post again.
Feeling a bit shell shocked at the mo but must summon the energy to push on. Was about to phone the embassy when I saw your advise to email, good thinking they are likely to take an eternity on the phone anyway.

[357mag]

I think wigsy case is somewhat different, they are married with children. His wife would have derivative right to be in UK maybe.
De facto is a lot different as only "permitted family member" and should facilitate.

Something annoying is that it is me exercising my treaty rights but the refusal is of her visa so she cant come with me.

[dalebutt]

There is no difference in wigssy's spouse circumstances with regarding her not having a residence permit and your partner, his spouses DRC application was refused and it has nothing to do with her receiving visa from the Irish embassy in London. You seem to be mixing things up about permitted family member etc etc.

[357mag]

draft so far for email, any advice would be welcomed

Sir,
I am writing with reference to my partners application for a visa. The application was returned stating it cannot be processed because we did not submit all the required documentation, eg:

4. Evidence of your permission to reside in the UK valid for 3 months after your date of departure from Ireland.

My partner cannot provide this evidence because it is not intended to return directly to the UK. It is intended that she goes to the Philippines before December 12th for her sons wedding flying from Ireland.
It is also a desire to establish residence in Ireland indefinately, getting married there and settling down upon her return from the Philippines, therefore there does not exist any evidence that she can return to the UK

I would like to refer you the the Metlock case, in particular highlighted below

1. Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC precludes legislation of a Member State which requires a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in that Member State but not possessing its nationality to have previously been lawfully resident in another Member State before arriving in the host Member State, in order to benefit from the provisions of that directive.2. Article 3(1) of Directive 2004/38 must be interpreted as meaning that a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in a Member State whose nationality he does not possess and who accompanies or joins that Union citizen benefits from the provisions of that directive, irrespective of when and where their marriage took place and of how the national of a non-member country entered the host Member State.Obviously this refers to a spouse but I believe it should be considered as an analogy with regard to a partner

[357mag]

Wigsy quoted Metlock in his letter

1. Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC precludes legislation of a Member State which requires a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in that Member State but not possessing its nationality to have previously been lawfully resident in another Member State before arriving in the host Member State, in order to benefit from the provisions of that directive.
2. Article 3(1) of Directive 2004/38 must be interpreted as meaning that a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in a Member State whose nationality he does not possess and who accompanies or joins that Union citizen benefits from the provisions of that directive, irrespective of when and where their marriage took place and of how the national of a non-member country entered the host Member State.

You see it does not refer to a durable relationship case.

[dalebutt]

Good that you've finally found his post, I do not think that email will go far IMO, you need to argue that she is a beneficiary of EU law and should be able to benefit from the provisions of that law.

[357mag]

yep, added to my draft Dale, theres also somthing about being in the spirit of the directive i want to add

Sir,

I am writing with reference to my partners application for a visa. The application was returned stating it cannot be processed because we did not submit all the required documentation, eg:

4. Evidence of your permission to reside in the UK valid for 3 months after your date of departure from Ireland.



My partner cannot provide this evidence because it is not intended to return directly to the UK. It is intended that she goes to the Philippines before December 12th for her sons wedding flying from Ireland.

It is also a desire to establish residence in Ireland indefinately, getting married there and settling down upon her return from the Philippines, therefore there does not exist any evidence that she can return to the UK



I would like to refer you the the Metlock case, in particular highlighted below



1. Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC precludes legislation of a Member State which requires a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in that Member State but not possessing its nationality to have previously been lawfully resident in another Member State before arriving in the host Member State, in order to benefit from the provisions of that directive.
2. Article 3(1) of Directive 2004/38 must be interpreted as meaning that a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in a Member State whose nationality he does not possess and who accompanies or joins that Union citizen benefits from the provisions of that directive, irrespective of when and where their marriage took place and of how the national of a non-member country entered the host Member State.

Obviously this refers to a spouse but I believe it should be considered as an analogy with regard to a partner, So I ask you to reconsider the need to comply with item 4 in order to act within the spirit of the Directive. As I have stated it is me who is exercising my treaty rights and by not processing her appication for a visa you are detering me from exercising those rights.

[dalebutt]

Re your quote with regards not including durable partners, you are confusing yourself quite a lot.

This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them

Article 2 of 2

Family member" means

A) the spouse

B)the partner with whom the Union citizen ha
s contracted a registered partnership, on the
basis of the legislation of a Member State,
if the legislation of the host Member State
treats registered partnerships
as equivalent to marriage
and in accordance with the
conditions laid down in the relevant le
gislation of the host Member State.

C) the direct descendants who are under the ag
e of 21 or are dependants and those of the
spouse or partner as defined in point (b)

D) the dependent direct relatives in the ascen
ding line and those of the spouse or partner as
defined in point (

I think the rule is pretty clear.

[357mag]

Um

B)the partner with whom the Union citizen ha
s contracted a registered partnership, on the
basis of the legislation of a Member State,
if the legislation of the host Member State
treats registered partnerships
as equivalent to marriage
and in accordance with the
conditions laid down in the relevant le
gislation of the host Member State.

A durable relationship or de facto relationship is not registered so does not come under Family member.

[dalebutt]

Take your time and read the whole of the directives.

Without prejudice to any right to free movement and residence the persons concerned may have
in their own right, the host Member State shall,in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate
entry and residence for the following persons: (a)any other family members, irrespective of their nationality, not falling
under the definition in point 2 of Article 2 who, in the country from which they have come, are dependants or members of the household of the Union citizen having the primary right of residence, or where serious health grounds strictly require the personal care of the family member by the Union citizen;

(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested

Partner are OFM that is why they are subject to discretions in some regards, the directive does not exclude them from benefitting.

[357mag]

Sorry dale I'm not trying to critisize. I'm appreciation you posts.

Feel I'm gonna be banging my head on the wall trying to convince the embassy though.

If the office worker has a checklist before them and you dont tick all the boxes then its game over.

[357mag]

Damn, I just noticed on the back of this page they dont accept evidence of durable relationship either

[dalebutt]

I can only point you to the directives, whatever you do is completely up to you, if you agree with yourself that she cannot be a beneficiary because she is OFM, that is good, you appear to be concluding the fate of the application ahead of the official decision, the visa office has not returned the app as I understood because she is a partner, they only said she does not have a residence permit in the United Kingdom, what's all the fuss about OFM and FM all about? Well I wish you goodluck with the application.

[357mag]

No, I mean they also returned it because not enough documentary proof of durable relationship number 9 on the checklist.

So basically were screwed.