Exercising EU treaty rights - 5 years of mixed work/student

[noajthan]

@noajthan, Indeed the Ahmad case is from 2014 (I realized in my post above). I'll call the HO. You're definitely right wrt that exemption meaning there were different rules/consideration prior to June 2011 which are worth exploiting.

@LilyLalilu, see my post above above.

Two similar cases with similar timelines to yours:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 55674.html

Note success of German student here - he discovered he was covered by Germany's health system/insurance even when in UK:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 57181.html

If you call HO/UKVI helpline suggest ask them to provide answer in writing too or ask where you can write to so you can ask in writing.
Helpline has a reputation for sometimes supplying different answers, verbally, depending on which day you call or who you speak to; (I have had both good & bad experiences with advice obtained from the helpline myself).

[nordize]

Thanks again. I was just about to call them now - I have the same experience with the UKBA regarding consistency from 5 years ago (consistency was dreadful, although they all sounded extremely willing to help, and also convincing).

[nordize]

Ok, called and spoke to Amy - very helpful, double checked with someone else (putting me on hold) several times before confirming some of the answers, so I believe what she said.

She wasn't aware of the student registration certificate thing and asked me to tell her the full URL. She then opened it in her browser, read it, double checked with someone else in the office and confirmed that:

- yes, a student registration certificate obtained prior to 20 Jun 2011 does indeed exempt me from CSI
- it only exempts me from CSI for the time period after it was issued (Dec 2010 in my case), and not for the whole period of PhD studies.
- i have to wait until Dec 2015 to get automatic PR, then till Dec 2016 to apply for BC

OR

- produce proof of a CSI for the period prior to Dec 2010 for my PhD studies
- the CSI can be any EHIC

She also said that, if I want to, I may apply to get a Confirmation of PR, which *may* make the BC application easier, but not necessarily - she said the case worker may choose to re-verify all evidence of PR anyway (a little odd, I'd expect I won't have to provide any other proof of PR other than the Confirmation of PR if I have one).

If getting a confirmation of PR is quick then I'll probably apply to get it, but if it takes several months then I'll apply for BC straight away after the 5+1 years.

In the meantime I'll ask my college and my mum about medical insurance, but I'm not holding my breath (she was very clear that it has to be private and that NHS won't do).

Many thanks for all the answers, you two! You've been great. I'll write back when I have news.

[secret.simon]

I have a feeling that Amy may be wrong.

The definition of a student under the EEA Regulations made in 2006 included the requirement for CSI. It was not introduced some time later, but a part of the EEA Regulations as originally enacted-Section 4(1)d(ii).

The only way I can see out is that I think you mentioned that you were a paid PhD student. If you were paid for the research, would that not classify you as a worker, although you were formally a student? Also, would the NI on the pay not count towards your classification as a worker?

[noajthan]

I have a feeling that Amy may be wrong.

The definition of a student under the EEA Regulations made in 2006 included the requirement for CSI. It was not introduced some time later, but a part of the EEA Regulations as originally enacted-Section 4(1)d(ii).

The only way I can see out is that I think you mentioned that you were a paid PhD student. If you were paid for the research, would that not classify you as a worker, although you were formally a student? Also, would the NI on the pay not count towards your classification as a worker?

We are led to believe there is an exemption from need to prove CSI for students who were holders of some RCs if they held them in 2011.

"EEA nationals who were issued with a registration certification before 20 June 2011 on the basis that they were a student would not have been required to submit evidence that they held CSI, and therefore must not be required to provide evidence of CSI for any period spent as a student after their certificate was issued."

[nordize]

I wasn't paid (I don't think I said that). I was a full time PhD student, i.e. did not take paid work. I only got my NI number in Dec 2010. The paragraph I quoted (quoted again above by @noajthan) explains that there is an exemption from CSI if you were issued with a student working certificate, however you are only exempt of CSI for the duration after the certificate is issued. The paragraph is correct, and Amy confirmed it.

Indeed, if I had taken paid work then I wouldn't need to worry at all (I'd declare that period as worker).

Also, although the CSI existed before 2011, it was not enforced before 2011 because all registered students (including international ones) were entitled to free NHS treatment.

This is what makes it infuriating: before June 2011 it was NOT required of me to have CSI in order to study in the UK. I started my PhD at Cambridge without one, AND completed it without one, BEFORE June 2011. However, I am now required to provide evidence of CSI retroactively for a period during which CSI was NOT required. I would have had it if it had been required of me. I feel there is a legal case here!

[secret.simon]

As a PhD student, I hope you would not mind if I were to dispute your conclusions

before June 2011 it was NOT required of me to have CSI in order to study in the UK.

Correct. CSI was not required for studying in the UK or even for accessing the NHS at that point in time. But it was required, even at that point in time, for the purpose of qualifying for PR. The EEA Regulations came into force in 2006. The earliest that applications for PR under the EEA Regulations could start would be 2011.

I would have had it if it had been required of me.

At that point in time, was it your intent to settle in the UK? If it was, I find it very strange that you did not do your research in this field.

I personally think there is no case to take to court here. If you did not read the rules, that is not the Home Office's issue.

On the other hand, the link that was referred to earlier does give you a way forward. It seems to me that the Home Office is exercising discretion in the cases of those issued registration certification before 20 June 2011. It may be that they have factored in legitimate expectations into the rules.

But the fact remains that the law as it stood at that time was unambiguous.

[nordize]

The govt since 2011 also requires it for studying whereas before it didn't. No, at the time I wasn't thinking I would apply for citizenship, hence I did not do any digging - you are correct, there is no legal case. Unambiguous or not, I find the CSI requirement for PR but not for studies (and the retroactive aspect of it now that it's also required for studies) to be at least unfair. It speaks about the attitude of a govt towards immigration.

The link and regulation that provide an exemption from CSI based on a student registration certificate do not however offer me a way forward, as it only applies for the period after the certificate was issued (see my posts above). It still leaves more than 1 year of studies that must be covered by a CSI (see my previous posts).