ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2

ScopeD
Member of Standing
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:24 am
United Kingdom

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Post by ScopeD » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:16 pm

secret.simon wrote:Speaking of history lessons;

The note on the front page of the UK passport still refers to "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State...". The government is of course officially HM Government. And that is why Australia (and other Commonwealth countries) does not send an Embassy to the UK, but a High Commission. Embassies were sent from one monarch to another. The Queen could not send an embassy to herself, so High Commissions are exchanged between the governments of the Commonwealth Realms.
ScopeD wrote:Do Aussies swear allegiance to the queen or not? I thought that since they are already subjects of Her Majesty, perhaps they can be exempt from all that hullabaloo which they are already part of. Perhaps this must be queried with Her Majesty's government.
Till 2004, new citizens who already owed allegiance to the Queen in one of her other Realms (the eight Commonwealth Realms) did not need to swear allegiance again to the Queen as they already owed her allegiance as the citizen of another Commonwealth Realm.

The original Section 42 of the British Nationality Act 1981 stated
(2)So much of subsection (1) as requires the taking of an oath of allegiance shall not apply to a person who—...
(b)is already a British citizen, a British Dependent Territories citizen, a British Overseas citizen, a British subject, or a citizen of any country of which Her Majesty is Queen.
.
That section was completely rewritten by the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002, which therefore required even citizens of the Queen's "Other Realms and Territories" to take the oath.
carrick wrote:I would love it if Commonwealth countries could travel freely between each of them and work unrestricted!
Of course, originally, pre-1948, all people who owed allegiance to the monarch were British subjects. Then in 1948, Commonwealth countries started creating their own citizenships, but retained the common "British subject" part. Some renamed it to "Commonwealth citizen". New Zealand was the last country to reluctantly abandon the mother country, not only being the last to ratify the Statute of Westminster (granting it legislative independence from Westminster) in 1947, but also the last one to retain "New Zealand citizen and British subject" till the late 1970s. New Zealand, like the UK, is one of only three countries in the world that does not have a written constitution (the other one being Israel).

Crucially, because of their common status as her Majesty's subjects, Commonwealth citizens did have the same kind of freedom of movement that the EU now enjoys till the 1970s. Commonwealth citizens could also register as British citizens, originally within one year of arrival, but fears in the 1960s of floods of immigrants from the "New" (i.e. non-white) Commonwealth led to Enoch Powell's famous "Rivers of Blood" speech and the significant tightening of immigration controls even against Commonwealth citizens and registration then started requiring 5 years of residence. It was still registration rather than naturalisation, as it was felt that Commonwealth citizens already owed allegiance to the Queen as "Head of the Commonwealth".

It was the British Nationality Act 1981 that brought the rules for Commonwealth citizens in line with other non-Commonwealth citizens and acquiring citizenship was only possible through naturalisation.
Casa wrote:they could also ask to remain seated during the National anthem to avoid even more 'hullabaloo'.
During my naturalisation ceremony, an Aussie and I were the only two people in the group to sing the National Anthem unaided by the notes.
ScopeD wrote:do they have a UKIP (perhaps it's called AuSIP) or a Scottish National Party (or perhaps Tasmanian National Party)???
There is a strong Republican movement in Australia. The current Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, strongly favours a Republic, while his immediate predecessor, Tony Abbott, was an ardent supporter of the monarchy. They are both from the same party though :) The Australians did hold a referendum in 1999 on getting rid of the Queen as Head of State. It failed by about 10% (45% yes to 55% No) on a 95% turnout. The last point is, in electoral terms, massively impressive.

PS: God, I am such a history and politics nerd.
PPS: That did make the current LitUK test ridiculously easy for me.
Impressive. Why are you not a Prime Minister? You know enough to be running a small country the size of half of Yorkshire.

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 11124
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Post by secret.simon » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:41 pm

ScopeD wrote:Impressive. Why are you not a Prime Minister? You know enough to be running a small country the size of half of Yorkshire.
Prime Minister in this country!!! I've heard that you have to do funny things with a dead (necromancy) pig (bestiality)!!! I'd rather not :D

Actually, I would love to be one of the two Captains-Regent of San Marino, a micro-state totally surrounded by Italy. But as it is not a part of the EU or even the EEA, citizenship there is ridiculously tough to get. I may have to settle for being Prime Minister of Liechtenstein.
vinny wrote:Thanks for the history lesson.
Thanks for the compliment , vinny.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

aussiegoin4it
Newly Registered
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:54 pm

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Post by aussiegoin4it » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:52 am

I have no issue with swearing allegiance to the Queen. I don't know how this thread became all about that.

My issue is with the British government officials treating irreplaceable original documentation negligently and with utter disdain.

Hence the pragmatic suggestion to crumple or damage the citizenship certificate on stage - to bring attention to the widespread issue of Home Office attitudes towards precious documentation.

I have spoken to many other foreigners who have stories of documents from parents' marriage certificates to original degree certificates being permanently damaged. And no, this was not a "Royal Mail" issue.

And if you managed to never have an important document of yours defaced or permanently damaged then congratulations. You are one of the lucky ones. If only we all were so fortunate.

Siraj ud-Daulah
Member
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Post by Siraj ud-Daulah » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:56 am

@Simon you Sir, are full of endless information :mrgreen:
Very informative and much educational indeed, thank you, thank you so much.

I also have seem to have stumbled upon your old blog http://secretsimon.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1 :wink:

You were to first person to look up my name, so cudos for that once again. Force is very strong with you :D

@AussiegoinNuts4it Fair enough, Home Office due to budget restraints suffering from lack of stuff and coping miserably to get everyone's naturalisation done. I'm waiting 13 months myself, big deal! It's not the end of the world!

What you could actually whine about instead is when Australia decides to treat refugees worse than your dog and send them back to die, for them it's end of the world. But, may be that doesn't bother you since it's not your problem..

caffeine
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:52 am

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Post by caffeine » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:30 pm

Siraj ud-Daulah wrote: @AussiegoinNuts4it Fair enough, Home Office due to budget restraints suffering from lack of stuff and coping miserably to get everyone's naturalisation done. I'm waiting 13 months myself, big deal! It's not the end of the world!

What you could actually whine about instead is when Australia decides to treat refugees worse than your dog and send them back to die, for them it's end of the world. But, may be that doesn't bother you since it's not your problem..
It seems to me that you and @AussiegoinNuts4it are arguing about the same thing but with two different assumptions. You are assuming that everyone is a genuine refugee and AussiegoinNuts4it is assuming that they are not. Thing is you are both partially right and whole matter is not that black and white.

In my experience Australians are not dearly beloved people but it may seem that way to people from western Europe. They are just direct at saying what they feel instead of being politically correct.

There are dearly beloved people in every country anywhere in the world and generalisation can only take you so far.
Received by HO : 02-04-2015
Fee deducted : 22-04-2015
Acknowledgment Email: 23-04-2015
Approval Letter : 10-10-2015

aussiegoin4it
Newly Registered
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:54 pm

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Post by aussiegoin4it » Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:18 pm

Seems that @Siraj ud-Daulah is a hateful anti-Australian dearly beloved. A long posting history in these very forums of hatred and vile statements about a member of the Commonwealth of the United Kingdom.

Instead of commenting on issues at hand Siraj ud-Daulah just hijacks threads with utter vile and bile (if not complete lies) that attack Australia as a country and Australians as people.

How about Siraj ud-Daulah actually contribute to a thread for once? Is that possible? Or does Siraj ud-Daulah feel the need to hijack every single thread topic with the hatred and beloved that Siraj ud-Daulah clearly feels to the core!?

Perhaps Siraj ud-Daulah is better off in a prison expressing such extreme hateful views. Perhaps Siraj ud-Daulah might find supporters there.

Hey, Siraj ud-Daulah, if you're reading this - how about you actually have something to say on the topic of this thread! Did you even read it?

And, Siraj ud-Daulah, if you're reading this - how about you explain your massive chip on your shoulder? Did you get beat up by a group of Australians once? Well even if you did - so what - I have, too. So how about you grow up. Because all you seem to come across is a whiny pathetic snivelling hateful excuse for a human being.

User avatar
Casa
Moderator
Posts: 25753
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:32 pm
United Kingdom

Re: Thinking About Screwing Up Certificate At Ceremony

Post by Casa » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:08 pm

I think it's time to close this thread...opinions have been given, but it's becoming increasingly inflammatory.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Locked