Child benefit mistake and ILR

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:22 pm

Vinny you are running around in circles on this one.

The answer for the last time, is a child born in the UK of parents who have no recourse to public funds as part of thier visa status, are also not entitled to CHILD BENEFITS.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:31 pm

durbr wrote:Hi,

Thanks for replies.

I spoke with someboday at the HO this morning. He advised me to send application by post and provide a covering letter to explian the situation. As I have stoped Child Benefits, he advised me to write NO to the question.

I intend to prepare a covering letter that will support the idea that we made a mistake (or Child benefit ageny made a mistake) and we have always been able to support our family. (I financed my MSc and PhD as an international student). I think our situation is not much different from Harriet Harman who took money (illegaly?) from David A. "in good faith"! if she got away with it, why shouldn't we. At least we asked the Child Benefit agency before we took the money.

Why are you bringing Harriet Harman into this?

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:40 pm

Vinny, the paragraphs you are quoting are in relation to children who are here as the dependents of those who have been admitted for settlement as a spouse/fiancee/civil partner, ie a child who has a step parent who is a UK national or has ILR. It is not relevant in the situation where both parents are on WP, HSMP or other temporary category and are therefore restricted from claiming public funds.

Victoria

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:12 pm

Thank you Victoria.
So I take it that you agree, parents of childern born in the UK under immigration restrictions are not entitled to Child Benefit or is there some provisor I have'nt seen or know about?

The only thing I know for certain is that when we enquired in 2003 at DWP they said we where entitled to child benefit if the child was born in the UK, regardless of our status and that was after carefully explaining we had no recourse to public funds.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:30 pm

I agree that when a child is born anywhere and is now in the UK, if BOTH his parents are not permitted access to public funds, then they cannot claim child benefit on his behalf UNLESS they are from one of the few countries who have an agreement with the UK to provide this.

Where is John when you need him? He's the expert on all this!

Victoria

ismangil · Post by **ismangil** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:26 pm

Siggi wrote: The only thing I know for certain is that when we enquired in 2003 at DWP they said we where entitled to child benefit if the child was born in the UK, regardless of our status and that was after carefully explaining we had no recourse to public funds.

Yes, my experience is the same. A few years ago DWP/Social Security Office would advise people to apply Child Benefit and Tax Credits. And they got it too!

Only recently the Child Benefit and Tax Credit application form has been clarified with immigration status.

It is left up to us to "resist" all this attempt to make us do illegal stuff!!

durbr · Post by **durbr** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:34 pm

Hi,

As I mentioned earlier, I am willing to repay all the money (plus interest).

durbr · Post by **durbr** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:36 pm

ismangil,

In 2004, the application tht we filled in, there was a question about immig. status. We wrote in te application that we were subject to immig. restriction.

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:35 pm

Dubr,
Why don't you just take a chance and say that you don't receive any benefit.
I personally don't beleive that the BIA cross check with DWP.S
So take the chance and argue the toss later with them if it comes to that.
BIA is in such a mess anyhow.
Good luck.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:38 pm

There are three possibilities with being honest - they may exceptionally approve, or they may allow you to remain on current status until the money is paid back, or they may curtail your leave and remove you. The last option is unlikely if you prove this is not your fault and that you are now paying it back.

If you hide this, there is only on possibility if you get caught....that is being booted out.

I have come across several people who have been caught out on this. It is NEVER worth lying to immigration, especially if the breach was so clearly unintentional.

Victoria

ismangil · Post by **ismangil** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:40 pm

VictoriaS wrote: It is NEVER worth lying to immigration, especially if the breach was so clearly unintentional.

I heartily agree lying is never worth it.

On the other hand I have simpathy because "clearly unintentional" to you or me is sometimes hard to prove to an immigration officer!

durbr · Post by **durbr** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:00 pm

I completely agree with you Victoria. It is not worth lying.

ajani · Post by **ajani** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:08 pm

Durbr,
At the end of the day you have to make up your mind what you want to do. If you stopped receiving Child Benefit a week before your application and a question was asked if you are currently receiving Child Benefit, surely answering No would not amount to telling lies because you are at present not receiving it.
If you wish to complicate things for your self then goodluck.

durbr · Post by **durbr** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:31 pm

ajani,

I am going to answer NO to the benefit question and then include a cover letter explaining the whole situation. I don't think I should hide it when I didn't do it intentionally.

akhil_1 · Post by **akhil_1** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:24 am

sorry for a silly question â€“ is council tax excemption on the basis of a full time study with LRT stating "no recourse to public funds" - recourse to public funds or not? Is it classified as council tax benefit?
Will it cause any trouble whilst appliying for ILR if it was claimed prior receiving WP or HSMP status (more than 5 years ago)

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:12 am

Akhil,
I would say that Council Tax Benefit or Housing Benefit all fall into that area of, no recourse to public funds.
Check out the application form for ILR and you will see they ask if you receive any of the above mentioned Benefits.
Good luck

ismangil · Post by **ismangil** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:17 am

Siggi wrote:Akhil,
I would say that Council Tax Benefit or Housing Benefit all fall into that area of, no recourse to public funds.
Check out the application form for ILR and you will see they ask if you receive any of the above mentioned Benefits.
Good luck

I think there is a difference between Council Tax Benefit and "categorisation". Council Tax Benefit if I recall correctly is means-tested etc.

Categorisation refers to various things Councils do. So for example if a house is "all full-time students" then it is a certain category, which happens to have Â£0 rate. Single people get 25% disc rate. And so on.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:50 pm

No, this is not a public fund.

Victoria

Decus et Tutamen · Post by **Decus et Tutamen** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:12 am

VictoriaS wrote:Vinny, the paragraphs you are quoting are in relation to children who are here as the dependents of those who have been admitted for settlement as a spouse/fiancee/civil partner, ie a child who has a step parent who is a UK national or has ILR. It is not relevant in the situation where both parents are on WP, HSMP or other temporary category and are therefore restricted from claiming public funds.

Victoria

That's interesting, as my understanding is that if the requirements of paragraphs 304 and 305 of the rules are fulfilled, then it doesn't matter whether the child is seeking LTE/R as a dependant of someone admitted for settlement or otherwise.

Is it possible to provide links to the relevant legislation/case law to substantiate your view point please, so that I may learn?

tinux · Post by **tinux** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:55 am

tvt wrote:The question in the ILR form is "Are you receiving any public funds?". This IMHV is a simple question - it does not ask you whether you were receiving these funds some time in the past. All it asks is whether you are receiving any of these funds NOW. So if you stop getting the CB payments even a month before you submit your ILR application, you can legitimately answer "No" to that question.

There is also the practical question of HO-BIA finding out that you were receiving these payments in the past. This could come from two sources:

1. your bank statements which you take to the appointment / submit with your application showing CB credits (these can easily be spotted). To avoid the fuss, I suggest you do not send these bank statements but unstead send other evidence (such as salary slips, saving accounts) of your ability to maintain yourself and your dependents without recourse to public funds.

2. HMRC notifying BIA about your recourse to public funds. This is less likely to happen but still a risk.

when you say you are receiving public fund then the case worker will chase it up.
so yes
make sure you are not receiving it now
do not sent a bank statement with those payments on it
if possible change bank account and keep it clean
it should be just fine

the funny thing is as soon as you get that stamp a minute later you can reapply very stupid law if you ask me.
but to be safe then sorry
never give more info to the HO then requested so the question is clear
are you claiming???????? give an answer as NO and make sure you are not claiming ignore the past
always seek legal advice

durbr · Post by **durbr** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:44 pm

Hi all,

We have stoped child benefits.

Post by **John** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:53 pm

durbr, why are you so keen to repay the money? Or I suspect the question is .... why do you think repaying the money will make any difference?

I ask that because I can't see it will make any difference whatsoever. The question on the visa application form is worded in the present tense, and your honest answer about Child Benefit is !"no"!

durbr · Post by **durbr** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:35 pm

Hi John,

I am keen to pay the money back because I want to write a cover letter in which I will mention that we mistakenly took the money. So returning the money to which we were not entitled seems like an obvious choice to me.

We want to convince them that at the end of the day we haven't benefited from "public funds".

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:44 pm

Sometimes, the more you explain without being asked, the deeper the hole you dig yourself into!

Why not just say no, as advised by some members, and then supply the explanatory letter only if the need arises? They might accept your 'no' at face value, and if they don't, you can proceed to explain.

That's just my 2 cents (or is it pence?)

Post by **John** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:05 pm

Rozen, totally agree with that, especially as "No" really is the correct answer to the question as worded by whoever designed the form for BIA.

BIA could have asked "Are you now claiming, or have you ever claimed ..... " but they chose not to do so.

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Child benefit mistake and ILR