Travel to Schengen zone, without visa, for family member of BC

[Mercyknight]

You may still be confused between an EEA Resident Permit and the UK ILR-BRP.

No I'm not, I understand.

[CR001]

It's been a long process.

She was granted Discretionary Leave to Remain (under human rights) for the last 6 years (had to keep renewing), and then got issued with ILR this year when we applied last November 2015.

She could have applied for citizenship immediately after receiving ILR, just thought you might not be aware. Takes a a bit longer if she wants to retain her SA citizenship though as there are two other steps to do first.

[cs95tdg]

I'm going to go to the consulate in Manchester and see if they'll see us without having an appointment! Long shot I know...

Each country consulate may be different, and do hope you do manage to see someone. Hopefully they are nothing like the Finnish embassy, who don't even let you into the premises until your appointment time, when I arrived 15 mins early. They checked the appointment booking printout at the time of allowing me in. It was similar when I applied through the tls contact centre who submit applications to the French consulate. They use a outdoor queueing system, and check appointment printouts prior to letting anyone in.

I'm guessing you've already checked to see if any appointments are available?

[Mercyknight]

I'm going to go to the consulate in Manchester and see if they'll see us without having an appointment! Long shot I know...

Each country consulate may be different, and do hope you do manage to see someone. Hopefully they are nothing like the Finnish embassy, who don't even let you into the premises until your appointment time, when I arrived 15 mins early. They checked the appointment booking printout at the time of allowing me in. It was similar when I applied through the tls contact centre who submit applications to the French consulate. They use a outdoor queueing system, and check appointment printouts prior to letting anyone in.

I'm guessing you've already checked to see if any appointments are available?

Yeah I've checked, appointments aren't available for another month. When I've tried to book the appointments it says there's an error with their system! So not even getting any joy there with simply submitting an application.

Isn't there some stipulation that they have to get an appointment for an EU spouse within 2 weeks?

[noajthan]

Isn't there some stipulation that they have to get an appointment for an EU spouse within 2 weeks?

The systems are clearly broken. Its no good quoting SLAs.

EU law also covers issuance time for RCs - they are invariably broken in several memberstates.

[Mercyknight]

So what if we a Schengen Visa for France fast tracked and book a night away in France on Friday?

The Schengen visa will say France as single entry but technically I can still travel into the Schengen zone with it?

Portugal's fast track process is not doable because of their public holiday, but I could pay to get one for Germany or France?

Any advice on how I can get a work around visa using another country? I'm aware it's a grey area...

[Casa]

You may not be issued with a multiple entry Schengen visa.

[Mercyknight]

You may not be issued with a multiple entry Schengen visa.

But what if "someone who isn't me" decided to get a schengen visa for Paris say for Friday night, and it was only single entry, however, that said person decided they didn't want to go to Paris on Friday, and changed their mind and decided to go to Portugal that weekend instead.

Hypothetically speaking??

[Casa]

13 My visa has been issued by, for example, the German Consulate.
Could I use this visa to make a trip to other Schengen States?
Yes. According to the Schengen rules, the Schengen visa is generally valid for all the
countries in the Schengen area. Please note, however, that you always have to apply at
the consulate of the country which is your primary destination (see FAQ no 5). The
territorial validity of your visa is indicated on the visa sticker under the heading "Valid
For". You will find information on how to read your visa sticker on this page of our
website: How to read/understand the visa sticker. See FAQ no 16 on checks at the
external borders.


http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... ons_en.pdf

[noajthan]

But what if "someone who isn't me" decided to get a schengen visa for Paris say for Friday night, and it was only single entry, however, that said person decided they didn't want to go to Paris on Friday, and changed their mind and decided to go to Portugal that weekend instead.

Hypothetically speaking??

You can dig into such vital if hypothetical questions here:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... ons_en.pdf

Edit: beaten by Moderator Casa

[Casa]

It also depends on whether you are issued with a Uniform Schengen Visas (USV) or a Limited territorial validity visas (LTV)

[Mercyknight]

It also depends on whether you are issued with a Uniform Schengen Visas (USV) or a Limited territorial validity visas (LTV)

Really though LTVs are very rare and usually given under exceptional circumstances?

[Casa]

I've no idea.
Limited territorial validity visas (LTV)
This type of visa obtained allows you to travel only in the Schengen State that has issued the visa or in some other cases, in the certain Schengen States specifically mentioned when applying for the visa. Apart from these Schengen countries, this specific visa is invalid to any other Schengen country not specified prior.

[cs95tdg]

I don't know whether different rules apply around the number of entries & validity period granted to those who apply for a schengen visa as the spouse/family member of a BC

But I'd say the chances of being issued a schengen visa that is valid for entry into all schengen countries is more likely than one that is restricted to an individual schengen state. I've applied for several over the past, both single & multiple entry which were all valid to enter any schengen state. I've always found the number of entries and validity period being a very different matter. If a single trip is only mentioned in the travel plan, it's always been a single entry visa that has been granted. In once instance where I applied at the embassy in person and explained my multi-trip travel plan without a long gap between trips, they agreed to grant me a multiple entry visa, even though they said they do not normally issue multiple entry visas for tourism purposes at that consulate.

So obviously there's no guarantee.

[noajthan]

See overview:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

[Mercyknight]

See overview:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

Yeah I've seen that, I'm not concerned about that for this reason:

owever, if they arrive at the border without an entry visa, the border authorities should give them the opportunity to prove by other means that they are your family members. If they manage to prove it, they should be issued with an entry visa on the spot.

The issue is being allowed to fly.

[noajthan]

See overview:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

Yeah I've seen that, I'm not concerned about that for this reason:

owever, if they arrive at the border without an entry visa, the border authorities should give them the opportunity to prove by other means that they are your family members. If they manage to prove it, they should be issued with an entry visa on the spot.

The issue is being allowed to fly.

Exactly.

That's why I posted it. Many people seem to fail to grasp that.
I guess the devil is always in the detail.

[Mercyknight]

So I've spoken to the said airline 3 times, and the actual airport (UKBA). I have a transcript of an online chat also saying she'll be ok to fly. They've said as long as she has a valid passport she'll be boarded.

All of them have confirmed that she'll be ok to fly as she is my spouse.

What do you guys think to that?

[Casa]

I doubt that you spoke with the UKBA . They were disbanded in March 2013 as being unfit for purpose and superseded by the UKVI.

There doesn't seem much else to add to the advise already given. At the end of the day it's your call.

[Mercyknight]

I doubt that you spoke with the UKBA . They were disbanded in March 2013 as being unfit for purpose and superseded by the UKVI.

There doesn't seem much else to add to the advise already given. At the end of the day it's your call.

Yeah it was whoever was in charge at Manchester. Yeah I'm aware that it's my call. I wasn't "gloating" saying it'll be find, I genuinely asking what you thought about what they were saying? Can it be trusted?

[Casa]

Personally having seen on the forum how frequently the UKVI staff give flawed advice and then take no responsibility for doing so, I would be cautious.
However, you say that you have confirmation by email from the airline (I assume 'R') that your wife can travel. UKVI Immigration Officers won't be interested in her outward travel...it's the authorities in Portugal that you need to consider.
Just one point. Did you explain to the airline that your wife doesn't hold an EEA Resident Card? Also who exactly emailed the clearance to travel?

[Mercyknight]

Personally having seen on the forum how frequently the UKVI staff give flawed advice and then take no responsibility for doing so, I would be cautious.
However, you say that you have confirmation by email from the airline (I assume 'R') that your wife can travel. UKVI Immigration Officers won't be interested in her outward travel...it's the authorities in Portugal that you need to consider.
Just one point. Did you explain to the airline that your wife doesn't hold an EEA Resident Card? Also who exactly emailed the clearance to travel?

I'm not concerned about Portugal. I honestly think that'll be fine. I had a online chat with a representative and gave very clear info that it wasn't EEA family member one, I spoke to them twice on the phone and they confirmed exactly the same information. They because she's travelling with me she just needs a valid passport. All three people checked with supervisors and all three gave the same advice independently. I asked very detailed and specific questions.

[noajthan]

I'm not concerned about Portugal. I honestly think that'll be fine. I had a online chat with a representative and gave very clear info that it wasn't EEA family member one, I spoke to them twice on the phone and they confirmed exactly the same information. They because she's travelling with me she just needs a valid passport. All three people checked with supervisors and all three gave the same advice independently. I asked very detailed and specific questions.

There are two hurdles.
1) Getting on plane.
2) Getting into country:
crossing Schengen border from outside Schengen zone (ie UK) into Schengen area (eg Portugal).

You (/concerned family member) don't have a Schengen visa and don't have an Article 10 RC.
(Traveller only has a domestic/UK BRP).

Even if R~ staff let you board (and my 2 Euros says its a big IF) there is no guarantee Portugese IO will greet you with open arms.
Then you will be faced with talking through treaty rights and proving entitlement to invoke them.

Note airlines will be risk-averse as they are penalised for letting undocumented passengers travel so its not necessarily as simple as persuading R~ to take pity on you.

[Casa]

I understood that you had confirmation from the airline in writing (by email) that they would permit your wife to board. Were you only given approval by telephone?

[Mercyknight]

I understood that you had confirmation from the airline in writing (by email) that they would permit your wife to board. Were you only given approval by telephone?

Two phone calls to customer services, one to whatever the border agency peeps are called, and then a transcript from R online.