need help visa refused

[yorm]

Zimba88, i have at last managed to upload pls advice

[KAKA-MAG]

image upload no size limit

Hi Yorm,
This is early year submission report , This is not FPS report, You are not suppose to send this report because it difficult to understand .

[yorm]

Use one of links below to upload your sample:

https://imgbb.com/
OR

OR
https://postimage.io/

thank you

[yorm]

Paragraph 245AA only applies to specified documents.
Specified documents are
route specific and are documents the applicant has to provide in order to meet the
requirements of the Rules. A request for further information can only be made under
evidential flexibility when the applicant has made a valid application.
Additional information can only be requested once and only in the specific
circumstances set out in paragraph 245AA(b). These are where:

• a document has been submitted but is in the wrong format, for example, where
a document contains all of the substantive information required by the
Immigration Rules but should have been submitted on letterheaded paper

• a document does not contain all of the specified information – for example, if an
employer’s letter has been provided that does not confirm the applicant’s gross
annual salary or that the employer needs to employ the applicant in their
current role for the foreseeable future
doesnt this apply to my case if it is the format that is the problem? I mean all the info is in there isnt it?

[yorm]

image upload no size limit

Hi Yorm,
This is early year submission report , This is not FPS report, You are not suppose to send this report because it difficult to understand .

Does that mean that it is unacceptable?

[jafersadeq]

We can see just one file,
When you upload it, copy-and paste the link, EASY

[yorm]

We can see just one file,
When you upload it, copy-and paste the link, EASY

the file i uploaded covers from 1/11/2015 to 5/4/2016 for one of the employees. The submission for the other employee is exactly the same.

[KAKA-MAG]

image upload no size limit

Hi Yorm,
This is early year submission report , This is not FPS report, You are not suppose to send this report because it difficult to understand .

Does that mean that it is unacceptable?

Hi Yorm,
You failed to supply compulsory document. AR would be base on information you have already provided. HO is not going to accept any further document. Fresh Application would be a good option but need to send FPS reports.
Number of hours worked by an employee
The applicant must provide the following for each worker as evidence of employment
created:
• evidence to show they are reporting Pay As You Earn (PAYE) income tax
appropriately to HMRC, and have done so for the full period of employment for
which points are being claimed, as follows:
o for reporting up to and including 5 October 2013 only printouts of Employee
Payment Records and, unless the start date of the employment is shown in
the Employee Payment Record, an original HMRC form P45 or form P46
(also called a Full Payment Submission) for the settled worker showing the
start date of the employment, or Printouts of Real Time Full Payment
Submissions which confirm he report of PAYE income tax to HMRC (if you
began reporting via Real Time before 6 October 2013); and
o for reporting from 6 October 2013 onwards printouts of Real Time-Full
Payment Submissions which confirm the report of PAYE income tax to
HMRC
• the evidence above must show the total payments made to the settled workers
as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the
applicant’s business

[jafersadeq]

We can see just one file,
When you upload it, copy-and paste the link, EASY

the file i uploaded covers from 1/11/2015 to 5/4/2016 for one of the employees. The submission for the other employee is exactly the same.

I said,,, we can see just one file, we cannot see the others,
What I can see is not FPS report, it is submission log, it is not acceptable.
Please try to send the others
Thanks

[yorm]

We can see just one file,
When you upload it, copy-and paste the link, EASY

the file i uploaded covers from 1/11/2015 to 5/4/2016 for one of the employees. The submission for the other employee is exactly the same.

I said,,, we can see just one file, we cannot see the others,
What I can see is not FPS report, it is submission log, it is not acceptable.
Please try to send the others
Thanks

That is all that was submitted, for the period 1/11/2015 till the 5/4/2016

[madi86]

image upload no size limit

Hi Yorm,
This is early year submission report , This is not FPS report, You are not suppose to send this report because it difficult to understand .

For my understand, What is early year submission report and why you submit it ?

[yorm]

image upload no size limit

Hi Yorm,
This is early year submission report , This is not FPS report, You are not suppose to send this report because it difficult to understand .

Does that mean that it is unacceptable?

Hi Yorm,
You failed to supply compulsory document. AR would be base on information you have already provided. HO is not going to accept any further document. Fresh Application would be a good option but need to send FPS reports.
Number of hours worked by an employee
The applicant must provide the following for each worker as evidence of employment
created:
• evidence to show they are reporting Pay As You Earn (PAYE) income tax
appropriately to HMRC, and have done so for the full period of employment for
which points are being claimed, as follows:
o for reporting up to and including 5 October 2013 only printouts of Employee
Payment Records and, unless the start date of the employment is shown in
the Employee Payment Record, an original HMRC form P45 or form P46
(also called a Full Payment Submission) for the settled worker showing the
start date of the employment, or Printouts of Real Time Full Payment
Submissions which confirm he report of PAYE income tax to HMRC (if you
began reporting via Real Time before 6 October 2013); and
o for reporting from 6 October 2013 onwards printouts of Real Time-Full
Payment Submissions which confirm the report of PAYE income tax to
HMRC
• the evidence above must show the total payments made to the settled workers
as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the
applicant’s business

would I be able to argue this under paragraph 245 (evidential flexibility)? I mean the file submitted gives the info but wrong format?

[yorm]

this is my accountants response when I discussed the issue with him
We would like to explain that only one (End of Year / Early Year Update) RTI was
submitted to HM Revenue And Customs which includes the figure for the period
from November 2015 to March 2016.
We also enclosed the ‘SUBMISSION REPORT’ (which was already submitted with
the applicant’s original application) submitted to HMRC, clearly showing the
following details for employee1 and employee2;
a. Employment period covered up to 05 April 2016.
b. Start date of employment of each employee (From 01 November 2015).
c. Year to date taxable income of each employee (£5,000).
d. Year to date tax deducted of each employee (£115).
e. Coded format of report (which was already submitted with the applicant’s
original application).
The only difference is that the cumulative RTIs were submitted to the HMRC at the
end of the year 2015-2016 and this RTI shows the accumulated Earning figure for employee1 and2
The reason of the difference in submission is that from 01 November 2015 to 31
March 2016 monthly RTIs were not submitted but Yearly RTI was submitted instead.
This information is verifiable from HMRC’s record.
We trust this is to your satisfaction,

[KAKA-MAG]

image upload no size limit

Hi Yorm,
This is early year submission report , This is not FPS report, You are not suppose to send this report because it difficult to understand .

For my understand, What is early year submission report and why you submit it ?

Hi Madi86,
Ealier Year Submission,is also called Earlier Year Update (EYU,To correct a mistake made in the current tax year, update the year-to-date figures in your next regular Full Payment Submission (FPS).

For previous tax years, send an Earlier Year Update (EYU) showing the difference between what you originally reported and the correct figure. .

[KAKA-MAG]

this is my accountants response when I discussed the issue with him
We would like to explain that only one (End of Year / Early Year Update) RTI was
submitted to HM Revenue And Customs which includes the figure for the period
from November 2015 to March 2016.
We also enclosed the ‘SUBMISSION REPORT’ (which was already submitted with
the applicant’s original application) submitted to HMRC, clearly showing the
following details for employee1 and employee2;
a. Employment period covered up to 05 April 2016.
b. Start date of employment of each employee (From 01 November 2015).
c. Year to date taxable income of each employee (£5,000).
d. Year to date tax deducted of each employee (£115).
e. Coded format of report (which was already submitted with the applicant’s
original application).
The only difference is that the cumulative RTIs were submitted to the HMRC at the
end of the year 2015-2016 and this RTI shows the accumulated Earning figure for employee1 and2
The reason of the difference in submission is that from 01 November 2015 to 31
March 2016 monthly RTIs were not submitted but Yearly RTI was submitted instead.
This information is verifiable from HMRC’s record.
We trust this is to your satisfaction,

Hi Yorm,
Earlier year Update/Submission does reflect that you made some changes in last year . You put doubt in CW mind ,
EYU does not show the monthly taxes and Salary figure therefore CW failed to calculate hours as you claimed.

[yorm]

this is my accountants response when I discussed the issue with him
We would like to explain that only one (End of Year / Early Year Update) RTI was
submitted to HM Revenue And Customs which includes the figure for the period
from November 2015 to March 2016.
We also enclosed the ‘SUBMISSION REPORT’ (which was already submitted with
the applicant’s original application) submitted to HMRC, clearly showing the
following details for employee1 and employee2;
a. Employment period covered up to 05 April 2016.
b. Start date of employment of each employee (From 01 November 2015).
c. Year to date taxable income of each employee (£5,000).
d. Year to date tax deducted of each employee (£115).
e. Coded format of report (which was already submitted with the applicant’s
original application).
The only difference is that the cumulative RTIs were submitted to the HMRC at the
end of the year 2015-2016 and this RTI shows the accumulated Earning figure for employee1 and2
The reason of the difference in submission is that from 01 November 2015 to 31
March 2016 monthly RTIs were not submitted but Yearly RTI was submitted instead.
This information is verifiable from HMRC’s record.
We trust this is to your satisfaction,

Hi Yorm,
Earlier year Update/Submission does reflect that you made some changes in last year . You put doubt in CW mind ,
EYU does not show the monthly taxes and Salary figure therefore CW failed to calculate hours as you claimed.

the report submitted clearly shows tax deducted of £115 for each employee, it also shows gross income of £5000, please look at it again , it also shows start date 1/11/2015 and end date 5/4/2016, i made no changes at any point, I have no idea why my accountancy firm used this format
my question is seeing as the info is there should they have not asked for the prefered "requested" format in accordance to paragraph 245AA

[KAKA-MAG]

this is my accountants response when I discussed the issue with him
We would like to explain that only one (End of Year / Early Year Update) RTI was
submitted to HM Revenue And Customs which includes the figure for the period
from November 2015 to March 2016.
We also enclosed the ‘SUBMISSION REPORT’ (which was already submitted with
the applicant’s original application) submitted to HMRC, clearly showing the
following details for employee1 and employee2;
a. Employment period covered up to 05 April 2016.
b. Start date of employment of each employee (From 01 November 2015).
c. Year to date taxable income of each employee (£5,000).
d. Year to date tax deducted of each employee (£115).
e. Coded format of report (which was already submitted with the applicant’s
original application).
The only difference is that the cumulative RTIs were submitted to the HMRC at the
end of the year 2015-2016 and this RTI shows the accumulated Earning figure for employee1 and2
The reason of the difference in submission is that from 01 November 2015 to 31
March 2016 monthly RTIs were not submitted but Yearly RTI was submitted instead.
This information is verifiable from HMRC’s record.
We trust this is to your satisfaction,

Hi Yorm,
Earlier year Update/Submission does reflect that you made some changes in last year . You put doubt in CW mind ,
EYU does not show the monthly taxes and Salary figure therefore CW failed to calculate hours as you claimed.

the report submitted clearly shows tax deducted of £115 for each employee, it also shows gross income of £5000, please look at it again , it also shows start date 1/11/2015 and end date 5/4/2016, i made no changes at any point, I have no idea why my accountancy firm used this format
my question is seeing as the info is there should they have not asked for the prefered "requested" format in accordance to paragraph 245AA

Yorm,
Its totally CW Discretionary power, This is EYU, They did not refused on basis genuine entrepreneur, because CW easily argued that as being businessman , you do not have full knowledge regard employment laws and reporting rules to HMRC.
£5000 what does exact mean by , how you calculate , how many hours employee worked , although you payslips might showed the information but it has to support FPS RTI.

[yorm]

Yorm,
Its totally CW Discretionary power, This is EYU, They did not refused on basis genuine entrepreneur, because CW easily argued that as being businessman , you do not have full knowledge regard employment laws and reporting rules to HMRC.
£5000 what does exact mean by , how you calculate , how many hours employee worked , although you payslips might showed the information but it has to support FPS RTI.

[/quote]
everything in the report is my accountancy firm response to my queries, wage slips show the breakdown of the £5000/5 months, I paid wages monthly and paid NI monthly. I know that submissions were made on monthly basis it is just the submission report that was given from 1/11/2015 to the 5/4/2016.
Pls, Zimba88 and senior members I need you opinion on whether I have a chance if I argue evidential flexibility should have been used in my case seeing as the info is available starting date, ending date, gross income, tax..etc, but it does seem that it was in a wrong format ?

[yorm]

Zimba88 can you pls give me your opinion?

[zimba]

FPS submissions can be done only quarterly usually when pay less than £1,500 per month (while such salary payments are done monthly)
Is this the case with you ??

yes it is, i pay 1000 per month the submission report says start date 1/11/2015 end date 5/4/2016, it clearly shows the gross earning for each employee, total NI ...etc,

Then you should be able to revert this in AR.
You MUST explain very clearly that RTI submissions do NOT need to be made monthly in certain circumstance as described here: https://www.gov.uk/running-payroll/paying-hmrc
refer to this link and well as HMRC rules as argue VERY CLEARLY that the reason you do not have monthly payments is because you chose to submit quarterly as per HMRC rules. You must ALSO argue that the rules simply require as per Appendix A that:

(1) printouts of Real Time-Full Payment Submissions which confirm the report of PAYE income tax to HMRC.
(2) above must show the total payments made to the settled workers as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business;

You should argue that you already provided this with your application.

[yorm]

FPS submissions can be done only quarterly usually when pay less than £1,500 per month (while such salary payments are done monthly)
Is this the case with you ??

yes it is, i pay 1000 per month the submission report says start date 1/11/2015 end date 5/4/2016, it clearly shows the gross earning for each employee, total NI ...etc,

Then you should be able to revert this in AR.
You MUST explain very clearly that RTI submissions do NOT need to be made monthly in certain circumstance as described here: https://www.gov.uk/running-payroll/paying-hmrc
refer to this link and well as HMRC rules as argue VERY CLEARLY that the reason you do not have monthly payments is because you chose to submit quarterly as per HMRC rules. You must ALSO argue that the rules simply require as per Appendix A that:

(1) printouts of Real Time-Full Payment Submissions which confirm the report of PAYE income tax to HMRC.
(2) above must show the total payments made to the settled workers as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business;

You should argue that you already provided this with your application.

Thanks Zinmba88, I will most certainly update when necessary, do you think adding the letter received from my accountant which reads as follows would be any help:
We would like to explain that only one (End of Year / Early Year Update) RTI was
submitted to HM Revenue And Customs which includes the figure for the period
from November 2015 to March 2016.
We also enclosed the ‘SUBMISSION REPORT’ (which was already submitted with
the applicant’s original application) submitted to HMRC, clearly showing the
following details for employee1 and employee2;
a. Employment period covered up to 05 April 2016.
b. Start date of employment of each employee (From 01 November 2015).
c. Year to date taxable income of each employee (£5,000).
d. Year to date tax deducted of each employee (£115).
e. Coded format of report (which was already submitted with the applicant’s
original application).
The only difference is that the cumulative RTIs were submitted to the HMRC at the
end of the year 2015-2016 and this RTI shows the accumulated Earning figure for employee1 and2
The reason of the difference in submission is that from 01 November 2015 to 31
March 2016 monthly RTIs were not submitted but Yearly RTI was submitted instead.
This information is verifiable from HMRC’s record.
We trust this is to your satisfaction,
thanks again

[zimba]

It can however you better make the case based on the law not what an accountant says. Argue that the HMRC allows you to submit quarterly

[KAKA-MAG]

FPS submissions can be done only quarterly usually when pay less than £1,500 per month (while such salary payments are done monthly)
Is this the case with you ??

yes it is, i pay 1000 per month the submission report says start date 1/11/2015 end date 5/4/2016, it clearly shows the gross earning for each employee, total NI ...etc,

Then you should be able to revert this in AR.
You MUST explain very clearly that RTI submissions do NOT need to be made monthly in certain circumstance as described here: https://www.gov.uk/running-payroll/paying-hmrc
refer to this link and well as HMRC rules as argue VERY CLEARLY that the reason you do not have monthly payments is because you chose to submit quarterly as per HMRC rules. You must ALSO argue that the rules simply require as per Appendix A that:

(1) printouts of Real Time-Full Payment Submissions which confirm the report of PAYE income tax to HMRC.
(2) above must show the total payments made to the settled workers as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business;

You should argue that you already provided this with your application.

Thanks Zinmba88, I will most certainly update when necessary, do you think adding the letter received from my accountant which reads as follows would be any help:
We would like to explain that only one (End of Year / Early Year Update) RTI was
submitted to HM Revenue And Customs which includes the figure for the period
from November 2015 to March 2016.
We also enclosed the ‘SUBMISSION REPORT’ (which was already submitted with
the applicant’s original application) submitted to HMRC, clearly showing the
following details for employee1 and employee2;
a. Employment period covered up to 05 April 2016.
b. Start date of employment of each employee (From 01 November 2015).
c. Year to date taxable income of each employee (£5,000).
d. Year to date tax deducted of each employee (£115).
e. Coded format of report (which was already submitted with the applicant’s
original application).
The only difference is that the cumulative RTIs were submitted to the HMRC at the
end of the year 2015-2016 and this RTI shows the accumulated Earning figure for employee1 and2
The reason of the difference in submission is that from 01 November 2015 to 31
March 2016 monthly RTIs were not submitted but Yearly RTI was submitted instead.
This information is verifiable from HMRC’s record.
We trust this is to your satisfaction,
thanks again

Just to clarify two different things one is Reporting to HMRC through FPS report or EPS second Paying to HMRC.
1-You should send the FPS on or before your employees’ payday.There are few exceptions but you have to report to HMRC in 14 days . You have to submit the same day when you paying to staff or Payroll run date
FPS quarterly report does not exist.

2-Paying to HMRC, this can be pay to HMRC Monthly basis or Quarterly (If you pay less than £1,500 per month) . I agreed as Zimba88 mentioned above.

The Report you sent with application was Earlier Year Update not FPS report , CW refused the vise because, They Could not verified information because lack of FPS report. Your Accountants clearly mentioned (End of Year / Early Year Update) .

Please do not confuse paying to HMRC and reporting to HMRC. Your issue is reporting to HMRC not paying to HMRC. because HO can not refused the visa on basis that you did not pay on monthly.

Your Accountant supposed to submit Nove - March 16 FPS / EPS by 19 -04-2016 ., but they failed to submit . Therefore they submitted EYU (Early Year Update), because HMRC could not accept any FPS report after 19th April 2016 for year 15-16. You were only allowed to submit EYU, Thats what they did.

Hope this will help you understand the problem.

[yorm]

[quote="KAKA-MAG"

Just to clarify two different things one is Reporting to HMRC through FPS report or EPS second Paying to HMRC.
1-You should send the FPS on or before your employees’ payday.There are few exceptions but you have to report to HMRC in 14 days . You have to submit the same day when you paying to staff or Payroll run date
FPS quarterly report does not exist.

2-Paying to HMRC, this can be pay to HMRC Monthly basis or Quarterly (If you pay less than £1,500 per month) . I agreed as Zimba88 mentioned above.

The Report you sent with application was Earlier Year Update not FPS report , CW refused the vise because, They Could not verified information because lack of FPS report. Your Accountants clearly mentioned (End of Year / Early Year Update) .

Please do not confuse paying to HMRC and reporting to HMRC. Your issue is reporting to HMRC not paying to HMRC. because HO can not refused the visa on basis that you did not pay on monthly.

Your Accountant supposed to submit Nove - March 16 FPS / EPS by 19 -04-2016 ., but they failed to submit . Therefore they submitted EYU (Early Year Update), because HMRC could not accept any FPS report after 19th April 2016 for year 15-16. You were only allowed to submit EYU, Thats what they did.

Hope this will help you understand the problem.

[/quote][/quote]
Dear KAKA-MAG,
I qoute reasons of refusal as follows
"although you have provided detailed evidence of RTI from April 2016 to Dec 2016 we cannot accept hours for either employees from before April 2016 as the RTI you have submitted between Nov 2015 to March 2016 do not show individual monthly HMRC payment, therefore we can only calculate a total of 1170 for employee A and the same for employe B a total of 2340 hrs ... "
Please bear in mind the EYU is a category of RTI, which clearly indicates: tax payable, start date, gross payment, company,
Zimba88 pls your thoughts on KAKA-MAG opinion

[zimba]

I already have given you my take on your case. Please seek help from a professional if you are unable to write a decent defence of your case