14 year concession - What are our chances? Please Help!!!

[paulp]

Jeff, that's right, the Immigration Officers used to write what leave to remain is given at the back of the landing card and also the documents seen and whether they were satisfied.

I would think that a file would have been created from that landing card.

[Jeff Albright]

I would think that a file would have been created from that landing card.

Not necessarily Paul. Unless there are reasons for doing so, for example, filing the documents, they don't normally do so.
There are millions of people coming and going. Everyone must fill in the landing card at arrival. This does not mean all of them have HO files. Otherwise there would have been trillions of files sitting in the storage and requiring space of the size of Birmingham for keeping them leaving the HO with huge amount of unnecessary administrative work and making files more prone to disappearing & creating huge number of administrative errors.
The HO file number in the format X0000000 is open when the person comes in contact with the Home Office whilst in the UK. It may be when they are applying to extend their LTR or when they come to contact with IS for any reason AND where the paperwork begins.

Landing cards stored in Landing Cards Unit. There is (was) no automatic linkage of landing cards to HO files. If a caseworker wants to obtain the LC, they would need to physically telephone/email the LCU and ask them to fax them a copy.

This is correct that the IO writes the details at the back of the landing card at the passport control. Therefore, when the ILR was placed in Bhaju's mum passport, the grounds for endorsing it would almost certainly have been recorded on the LC.

I believe that the LC is the only evidence the HO has on Bhaju's mum. I may be wrong.
One way of checking this would be to try to telephone the BIA enquiry line and ask for the HO file number by giving the name, nationality and the date of birth. However, because of the number of HO records on their system, they might come up with several entries. If the HO file is available, make a request for a copy of it by writing to the Data Protection Unit.

[paulp]

Not necessarily Paul. Unless there are reasons for doing so, for example, filing the documents, they don't normally do so.
There are millions of people coming and going. Everyone must fill in the landing card at arrival. This does not mean all of them have HO files. Otherwise there would have been trillions of files sitting in the storage and requiring space of the size of Birmingham for keeping them leaving the HO with huge amount of unnecessary administrative work and making files more prone to disappearing & creating huge number of administrative errors.

The grant of LTR triggers an entry to be opened on CID giving the reason for granting the leave to remain, location, microfilm number (yes they do archive the landing card with LTR) and also the home office reference number(s). It does happen, Jeff.

We are not talking about visitors here, we are talking about the granting of LTR by the home office and particulary in the mother's case, ILR.

The HO file number in the format X0000000 is open when the person comes in contact with the Home Office whilst in the UK. It may be when they are applying to extend their LTR or when they come to contact with IS for any reason AND where the paperwork begins.

Isn't the IO an employee representing the HO in his/her official function? I'm surprised that you think granting of ILR would be treated so casually and no records kept. If that was the case, IOs could actually give ILRs willy nilly.

Landing cards stored in Landing Cards Unit. There is (was) no automatic linkage of landing cards to HO files. If a caseworker wants to obtain the LC, they would need to physically telephone/email the LCU and ask them to fax them a copy.

How do you know this? There is such a thing as CID, you know. The broad details are stored on CID and if the caseworker wants to see the landing card, he can ask for it by the microfilm number.

This is correct that the IO writes the details at the back of the landing card at the passport control. Therefore, when the ILR was placed in Bhaju's mum passport, the grounds for endorsing it would almost certainly have been recorded on the LC.

I believe that the LC is the only evidence the HO has on Bhaju's mum. I may be wrong.
One way of checking this would be to try to telephone the BIA enquiry line and ask for the HO file number by giving the name, nationality and the date of birth. However, because of the number of HO records on their system, they might come up with several entries. If the HO file is available, make a request for a copy of it by writing to the Data Protection Unit.

It's very easy, let the mum do a SAR and everything on INDECS, CID, LC and FTS will be revealed. Just be careful not to dig too deep.

[Jeff Albright]

The grant of LTR triggers an entry to be opened on CID giving the reason for granting the leave to remain, location, microfilm number (yes they do archive the landing card with LTR) and also the home office reference number(s). It does happen, Jeff.

Not always, but sometimes it does Paul. When I entered the UK on WP in April last year, no record apart from the landing card was made on the HO file about my arrival although there WAS the HO file one me and it has been active for almost 9 years. No record was made on CID or on a paper file although I had a long chat with the IO on arrival about my allowed appeal, my departure, etc (without him asking me, I was just curious how he would react). My appeal was allowed in February last year and I left the country to get the new passport (the HO lost the original one with other records) and visit my family. The HO never knew that I left and they never knew when and how I returned until the Data Protection Unit made a request to LCU for the copy of my landing card following my request to them for it in May last year after my return to the UK. There was no record on my file that I was granted WP at the overseas post. There was no record on my HO file that there was a referral made by the overseas post to the General Casework Group before my WP EC was granted.

It is not difficult to imagine that there could have been NO Home Office file on Bhaju's mum at all and the only record they had on her was the grant of ILR recorded on the Landing Card, which may not even have survived by now. Because they had no record on her and the only evidence was the genuine ILR stamp in her passport could have been the reason why she was released almost immediately after being arrested in 1995 following a tip off.

This being the case, I see no way of the HO establishing the grounds for the grant of her original ILR and they will have to interview her/send questionnaire to ask her to declare how she obtained it should they find it necessary.

Isn't the IO an employee representing the HO in his/her official function? I'm surprised that you think granting of ILR would be treated so casually and no records kept. If that was the case, IOs could actually give ILRs willy nilly.

You would be surprised to find that the person was granted ILR on arrival to the country without any checks after she lied to IO that she had lost her original passport with ILR stamp. This is the United Kingdom and I tend to believe in the things like this after having lived there for almost 10 years and simply reading the newspapers.

How do you know this? There is such a thing as CID, you know. The broad details are stored on CID and if the caseworker wants to see the landing card, he can ask for it by the microfilm number.

Because this is just what happened in my case, as the HO records indicate. The Caseworker dealing with my case telephoned the LCU to obtain the landing card on me and she recorded the date she requested it and the date it arrived.

[costa]

Its hard to imagine that the mother can got ILR at airport (or port of entry) even its by deception trick. The year of 1997 actually is not long long time ago and did allow foreigner to extend their visa at POE (port of entry). But I never heard that one can got ILR at airport. Did IO have the right to issue ILR at airport dated back in 1997? even claimed that I am the spouse of British citizen for over 5 years,.....

[paulp]

Not always, but sometimes it does Paul. When I entered the UK on WP in April last year, no record apart from the landing card was made on the HO file about my arrival although there WAS the HO file one me and it has been active for almost 9 years. No record was made on CID or on a paper file although I had a long chat with the IO on arrival about my allowed appeal, my departure, etc (without him asking me, I was just curious how he would react). My appeal was allowed in February last year and I left the country to get the new passport (the HO lost the original one with other records) and visit my family. The HO never knew that I left and they never knew when and how I returned until the Data Protection Unit made a request to LCU for the copy of my landing card following my request to them for it in May last year after my return to the UK. There was no record on my file that I was granted WP at the overseas post. There was no record on my HO file that there was a referral made by the overseas post to the General Casework Group before my WP EC was granted.

It is not difficult to imagine that there could have been NO Home Office file on Bhaju's mum at all and the only record they had on her was the grant of ILR recorded on the Landing Card, which may not even have survived by now. Because they had no record on her and the only evidence was the genuine ILR stamp in her passport could have been the reason why she was released almost immediately after being arrested in 1995 following a tip off.

This being the case, I see no way of the HO establishing the grounds for the grant of her original ILR and they will have to interview her/send questionnaire to ask her to declare how she obtained it should they find it necessary.

Jeff, so we know that for normal LTR sometimes CID entries are made. I don't want to go into the technicality of whether LTR was granted (as for me in the mid 90s, about the same time as the mother got ILR), and when you are coming with EC from abroad as in your case (ie after 2000).

When she applies for naturalisation, the HO will see the stamp. And they may request the landing card. It's a bit hard to be so categorical that it will all be plain sailing, especially when we don't know what was written on the landing card.