My husbands spouse visa, and his other wife!

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:54 pm

C'mon people. Don't get worked up too much. What is done cannot be undone. It is just life. We all make mistakes.

My best advice to Martha would be just to simply get on with her life. Although it may be difficult to forget about this but I think there isn't much point of dwelling on it for too long.

In short, he will not be able to qualify for an extension of his spouse visa. If he qualifies for other sort of visa, you, Martha, can do little to stop him. It is his call. Let him go. There have been scores of cases like this before and you are not alone in this world. You made a mistake, you won't make it again. Forget about it now.

Good luck.

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:55 pm

hi martha

yes i do know about the law passed regarding the 2nd wife. but as per my understanding it was to cover special situations where people before they enetered uk (eg asylum etc) and were already married more than once legally outside the uk. the law was not intended for people to evade uk laws and for uk resident people to marry outside uk and then dump the responsibilty of looking after the 2nd wife on the public in uk. i think it was meant to cover special situations and not like in your case.

it is unbelievvable that you say 'should i decide to support his application'. it is pretty obvious that you are still considering that possibility and also of the possibility of benefits for the 2nd wife. what a wonderful future uk has with 'supposedly' law abiding citizens like u abbetting the netry into uk of bigamists and even supoporting their continued presence in uk and then saying you saved uk the expense of keeping them in detention. using ur logic then no body should be kept in detention for breaking uk laws and all should be let loose on the public for saving govt money. what a perverted logic and sense of saving public money is all i can say.

However he came to the UK and was held by immigration. They(immigration) phoned me. I either had to give permission to leave Heathrow, or they would put him in a detention centre, then at some date send him home. I am the only reason he can stay in the UK. His appeal would not be successful, especially as he was previously a failed assylum seeker.

so you did support him getting through immigration.

We continue to live separately

so the marriage is not in existance now and he is not coming to the uk to be with you. also he already has setup another family unit in pakistan, so you are supporting his continued presence in the uk

just have a look at the recent IPPR report, see what background people are on benefits and what background people are unemployed the most. even a cursory reading of that research would make it obvious how many abuse the system and are not good for any country forget uk

i agree to disagree from your position on this. u can keep on justifying this gross hoodwinking of the govt and abuse of public funds (wrt to him only and not regarding your need for funds)

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:40 pm

hey martha

just found some info while discussing marriage laws in another thread http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 265#152265 . this might affect the outcome of your case or some aspects of it. see if it is of any use to you.

8.2 Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1988 gave effect to Parliament's decision at that
time that the formation of polygamous households in the United Kingdom should be
prevented. Accordingly, s.2 provided that a woman would no longer be granted entry
clearance on the basis of marriage where entry clearance had previously been granted
to another wife of the same man

so the other 'wife' will not get entry clearance

8.3.1 Under s.11(d) of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973, polygamous marriages
contracted abroad can only be valid in English law if the conditions outlined at 2.1 above
are met. The marriage will not be valid if either party is domiciled:
â€¢ in the UK; or
â€¢ in any other country whose law does not permit polygamous marriage

as your husband is domiciled in uk, the other marriage will be void as per uk laws

7. Bigamy
7.1 Where evidence on file points to the commission of bigamy or perjury, Marriage and
General Section, ONS should be notified (see OFFICE FOR NATIONAL STATISTICS in
Volume 2 Section I). They will then investigate the matter and will refer it, if appropriate,
to the police for further enquiries

do you want to explore this option.

read the full document on BIA website http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... annexb.pdf

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... c/marriage

have a nice day

martha · Post by **martha** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:47 am

Hi Vinay,
Thanks for the info. I have tried to digest as much as possible. Am still not sure where I stand, but am seeing a solicitor this week.
It looks like his 2nd marriage is not recognised here. But he also did not tell his authorities there about me, his 1st wife when he took the 2nd. that might go against him.
If I dont proceed against him , then he would be able to bring the other wife here, perhaps not on a spuse visa, but maybe on a different one. ie work visa.
Hopefully, the solicitor will be able to tell me this.
Daily, things are now progressing. cant go into details here at the moment. But I think you will understand .
thanks again

martha · Post by **martha** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:12 am

Well. An update. Under UK law his other marriage is not recognised. So bigamy, no... poygamous marriage, yes.
I have requested his spouse visa is cancelled. Waiting to hear from the Pakistan Embassy still.
I am now starting divorce proceedings, which he probably will contest, so a lengthy process, and not completed this year.
I am unable to prevent him from remaining in the country. He can try for a business visa, then he can bring the other wife here, on a work permit or student visa. after the divorce he can apply for a spouse visa for her.
Strange that I can do so little as a born UK citizen, and that his rights far outway mine, despite his track record.
Part of me hopes that his business will fail. Then he cant remain. Unless there is another loophole I dont know about.
Still, I'm feeling better on the whole. More determined. That's a big improvement. Reminds me of the song...'What a difference a day makes'

gollywood · Post by **gollywood** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:34 pm

martha wrote:.
Part of me hopes that his business will fail.

Find out what his business is - place a HUGE order of his products & service and when he puts all his energies into delivering the items, you DISAPPEAR!!!!

martha · Post by **martha** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:55 pm

Gollywood,
Had to laugh at your post! I know what business he's running. And actually, he's giving himself more problems than he realises. He is proud to mention in the local newspapers that he's worked as a chef for 7years in the UK. No formal qualifications, just practical work in the Spam, and progessed from there.
But as he was an illegal to begin with, he didnt have permission to work at all, only since 2006.
So if found out, he could face some problems with the Home Office anyway. Duuuh, he's so careless. So, illegal worker, failed assylum seeker, now cancelled spouse visa. Maybe failed business man too, very soon!
But still, all down in black and white now, in the local press. And divorce papers coming soon too. can it get much worse for him?
One more thing, As his other marriage isnt legal in the UK, I could view it that he has commited adultery. Now that would shock him, should I mention it

He cant come back and say his other marriage was Islamic and that it's fine. How so, when he didnt notify his authorities about his Pakistan marriage. He should have told them. He would have needed to explain then that I knew about his 2nd marriage. And maybe, maybe, his authorities might have contacted me to check.
I'm not out for revenge, far from it. Seems he can get into deep water without my help. Hopefully truth will prevail.

gollywood · Post by **gollywood** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:02 am

I just think Pak women get a raw deal when it comes to marrying jerks from 'back home'

With you 100% of the way - and please contact me if you need to devise some devious plan to get back at him.

I specialise in this area!!!!

martha · Post by **martha** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:05 am

Hi gollywood,
Actually, I'm a white British girl. Does that change things? Still wanna help if necessary, as you are an expert in such things

But you're right in any sense, He's still a jerk. Shame I didnt see the signs earlier.

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:50 am

good to see that u r done with such a loser. but dont dwell on getting back at him too much. the priority should be getting on with your life but if getting back at him comes along the way thats just an added sweetener. best of luck

martha · Post by **martha** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:52 am

Having read a few posts on other threads. I have a question. As my husband has had such a colourful history regarding his legal status here, and lied on his assylum seeker application for one, and using a different name and DOB( he was refused with this), worked illegally for 5 years, got his spouse visa under false pretences, should he fail to stay in the UK, could he be put on a life time ban? And would that cover all countries?
My solicitor can only help me with the divorce. Any immigration issue I can seek would be costly advice, as I would not qualify for legal aid.
Would immigration look into all these factors when deciding his rights to stay?
He originally entered on a 72hr stop over, and skipped the airport. Being stuck in that trap of not being able to leave the UK, he, like many thousands of illegals, worked underground.
I had no idea of his legal status here when we first met. But I believed he was legal. All his paperwork he kept at a friends house.
Dont get me wrong. I have no problem of foreigners coming here to make a new life. But there are so many thousands that enter illegally. And they lie through their teeth. I have heard cases, where boys, flush all paperwork down the aircraft toilets, on arrival to the UK ,then claim assylum this way. Why are we such a 'soft touch' on immigrants? If they come legally, then fine, good luck to them. But there are more illegals here, than legals. Doesnt seem right at all to me.

johnboy096 · Post by **johnboy096** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:52 pm

martha wrote:Having read a few posts on other threads. I have a question. As my husband has had such a colourful history regarding his legal status here, and lied on his assylum seeker application for one, and using a different name and DOB( he was refused with this), worked illegally for 5 years, got his spouse visa under false pretences, should he fail to stay in the UK, could he be put on a life time ban? And would that cover all countries?
My solicitor can only help me with the divorce. Any immigration issue I can seek would be costly advice, as I would not qualify for legal aid.
Would immigration look into all these factors when deciding his rights to stay?
He originally entered on a 72hr stop over, and skipped the airport. Being stuck in that trap of not being able to leave the UK, he, like many thousands of illegals, worked underground.
I had no idea of his legal status here when we first met. But I believed he was legal. All his paperwork he kept at a friends house.
Dont get me wrong. I have no problem of foreigners coming here to make a new life. But there are so many thousands that enter illegally. And they lie through their teeth. I have heard cases, where boys, flush all paperwork down the aircraft toilets, on arrival to the UK ,then claim assylum this way. Why are we such a 'soft touch' on immigrants? If they come legally, then fine, good luck to them. But there are more illegals here, than legals. Doesnt seem right at all to me.

Assalamu alaikum Martha,
I hope you're well.

Make a summary of events and if you've got any docs sent copies to the

Immigration and Border Control and CC a copy to the British Embassy in Islamabad FAO the CIL Team as they will assess his Visa - so when he applies in future HE'S IN FOR A SHOCK - put the newspaper clipping as well that'll shock the CIL team into action...

It'll be ok Inshallah!!!

P.S - Gollywood it's not just the men!

Pakistani women can be pretty devious as well!!!
Not all, but some, just look @ the internal politics in most Pakistani homes!!!
Shocking behaviour!!!
Contrary to belief, some of these women are not meek, but some are, with some of these girls their bite is much, much worse than their bark!!!
Beware!!! lol

gollywood · Post by **gollywood** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:41 pm

martha wrote:Hi gollywood,
Actually, I'm a white British girl. Does that change things? Still wanna help if necessary, as you are an expert in such things
But you're right in any sense, He's still a jerk. Shame I didnt see the signs earlier.

It does change things a bit - I feel doubly embarrased for jerks from my homeland that do this - its cold & calculated, and they lack compassion for fellow humans - all in their desire to get some red passport which they think is actually made of gold.

This **** will have tarred your perception & image of Pakistan & Pakistanis (possibly forever) - and in our current state, we need all the support & friends we can get.

Hope you can get your life well & truly back on track.

m000n · Post by **m000n** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:13 pm

I am sorry martha its very bad because of one person all nation is getting bad impresion,i know there are few person from pakistan who just use english girls or other british girls for just getiing red pasport but bad people are in evevry nations.
i think bad peoples are no nation they just think about there selves.
any way just want to say i know some about 4 guys who married with english girls and they are living hapily.

martha · Post by **martha** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am

Hello mooon, thanks for your reply. You are right of course that there are bad people everywhere. I also know happily married english girls with pakistani men.
BUt it is interesting also that gollywood's attitude has changed slightly, because I am white perhaps? I am a revert, so to any muslim, colour and nationality shouldnt come into it. Islam has no caste system, but obviously my husband's family felt it did. They were happy to let him marry a white muslim, for the visa, but their culture also dictated he marry one of his own. As such, dont you think they were dearly beloved to me?
It doesnt matter now, and I no longer care about them. I have my future to think about now.

gollywood · Post by **gollywood** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:19 pm

martha wrote:Hello mooon, thanks for your reply. You are right of course that there are bad people everywhere. I also know happily married english girls with pakistani men.
BUt it is interesting also that gollywood's attitude has changed slightly, because I am white perhaps? I am a revert, so to any muslim, colour and nationality shouldnt come into it. Islam has no caste system, but obviously my husband's family felt it did. They were happy to let him marry a white muslim, for the visa, but their culture also dictated he marry one of his own. As such, dont you think they were dearly beloved to me?
It doesnt matter now, and I no longer care about them. I have my future to think about now.

Noooooo! My attitude has changed slightly in that I feel even more guilt & shame for what that jerk did!

I thought you were a Pakistani girl from Britain. The fact that you arent means thats you were duped by this low life scum on the basis of you trusting him for being a Muslim. He used his status of a Muslim, and took advantage of it for materialistic gain.

He'll pay for that one day.

Islam doesnt belive in any caste system or hierachy - but sadly dumb Pakistani culture is full of that sort of crap!

Thankfully, Ive managed to 'wipe clean' all those backward cultural/tribal flaws in my wife - and she now realises had crazy folk back home are!

johnboy096 · Post by **johnboy096** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:51 pm

gollywood wrote:
martha wrote:Hello mooon, thanks for your reply. You are right of course that there are bad people everywhere. I also know happily married english girls with pakistani men.
BUt it is interesting also that gollywood's attitude has changed slightly, because I am white perhaps? I am a revert, so to any muslim, colour and nationality shouldnt come into it. Islam has no caste system, but obviously my husband's family felt it did. They were happy to let him marry a white muslim, for the visa, but their culture also dictated he marry one of his own. As such, dont you think they were dearly beloved to me?
It doesnt matter now, and I no longer care about them. I have my future to think about now.
Noooooo! My attitude has changed slightly in that I feel even more guilt & shame for what that jerk did!

I thought you were a Pakistani girl from Britain. The fact that you arent means thats you were duped by this low life scum on the basis of you trusting him for being a Muslim. He used his status of a Muslim, and took advantage of it for materialistic gain.

He'll pay for that one day.

Islam doesnt belive in any caste system or hierachy - but sadly dumb Pakistani culture is full of that sort of crap!

Thankfully, Ive managed to 'wipe clean' all those backward cultural/tribal flaws in my wife - and she now realises had crazy folk back home are!

The Caste system in the Indian Subcontinent was already prevalent in the Hindu culture.
But it was implemented as a divide and rule by the British colonialists to separate the Muslims.

Islam does allow recognition of Tribes but not castes - True tribes such as Syed, Awan, Raja.
Not ones that are based upon your job such as blacksmith, shoemaker etc etc

"O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honour each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honourable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous." Chapter 49, Verse 13

Happy Eid Milad-un Nabi for Thursday!

Peace!

martha · Post by **martha** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:35 pm

It feels good that I have moral support with this. And who knows, perhaps one day he'll realise his errors. I'll get through this, that's for sure. I always thought he was like a headless chicken. But he is an egg on legs, cant see a thing.

Allah hafiz

martha · Post by **martha** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:43 pm

My latest update as havent posted for a while.
1 Have sent lengthy letter to HO explaining all husbands activities since 2000. Support for spouse visa withdrawn.
2 Have seen solicitor regarding UK divorce.
3 Husband has now received solicitors courtesy letter, advising him to get a solicitor-yesterday actually. And he came straightaway from London to plead his case. He was rather melodramatic, and insisted I kill him. He he. Told him I didnt want to be detained at Her Majesty's pleasure thanks.
4 After 6hours of discussion he siad he would refuse to sign for the divorce papers when they are served in a few days. Without that I dont know if I can proceed with the divorce or not. ANYONE ANY IDEAS PLEASE? My solicitor has already said that if the papers are served ok then we can carry on with it. What other options do I have? anullment?
5. He is adamant that he wont do talaq with me. Actually if he wanted to do that he needs to hurry up. Saying 'I divorce you' is not enough if you had Islamic marraige in the UK. talaq is not valid here. Must be done by paperwork through muslim council, or muslim solicitors.
6. Am considering khula now.
7. No more contact with him at all now.
8. sent e-mail to his little sister in Pakistan, telling her everything.
Thats about it really.
Am I doing OK?

thsths · Post by **thsths** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:17 pm

martha wrote:4 After 6hours of discussion he siad he would refuse to sign for the divorce papers when they are served in a few days. Without that I dont know if I can proceed with the divorce or not. ANYONE ANY IDEAS PLEASE? My solicitor has already said that if the papers are served ok then we can carry on with it. What other options do I have? anullment?

I think you should talk to your lawyer about this, but I certainly share his optimism. First of all I think you can go ahead whether he agrees or not. Taking a second wife will most certainly count as adultery, and that is a reason for a unilateral divorce. Anullment is an option, but it is more difficult, because you need to prove that he did not enter the marriage with the best intentions. If you find evidence that he was already preparing the second marriage, that is fine, but otherwise this could be a very messy case.

8. sent e-mail to his little sister in Pakistan, telling her everything.

Is she on your side? If not, you may want to keep the details to yourself, as long as legal proceedings are likely. Of course you should not be unfriendly, but you may have to watch your words.

Am I doing OK?

You have a lawyer, and you have a case. So I think the outlook is very positive indeed.

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:07 pm

i dont think u should talk without a lawyer being present. also u shouldnt allow him access to ur home. u never know things could get nasty. if necessary talk to the police or restraining order etc. ask him only to talk thru ur lawyer. best to discuss issues with ur lawyer and not directly with opposite party. if u do meet make sure it is at a public place and not at ur home and keep witnesses for the meeting. record conversations with a digital recorder, u dont need his permission for that as far as i know. keep a personal alarm with u, u get cheap ones costing a few pounds and they cause a loud alarm when button is pressed. might be useful if u get any unwanted visitors

martha · Post by **martha** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:41 am

Thanks viney for the sound advice. I think I should do these things. He was very persistant with his phone calls yesterday. Obviously he realises that he cant do much in the UK without my support. Not sure he has a leg to stand on regarding immigration. Too much past history.
I did tell him to use solicitors from now on, but will have to keep telling him. The other option is just not to take his calls. Already decided not to let him in my home. Whilst he is not prone to violence a desperate man might resort to such methods.
Actually, the more persistant he becomes the more determined I am to press forward. So that's a good sign on my part I guess. Coming here to share is an added strength for me too.

khan85 · Post by **khan85** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:56 am

Martha sis!!! all the best and May Allah give u strength and courage..

he will realise what hes done but then its gna be too late!

martha · Post by **martha** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:03 pm

thsths
Originally missed your post, through tiredness I expect. Thanks for your advice. I have no documented evidence of his other marriage. But a couple of friends, when visiting Pakistan made some enquires, once I became suspicious, contacted my husbands family and actually spoke to the other wife. Whilst, not to hurt my feelings at the time, they decided not to tell me everything, only saying that they were 99.9% certain of the other wife. Only once I had heard it from my husbands lips on his return to the UK in Dec 2006, did my friends tell me all they had learned.
I decided to send the email to Pakistan, firstly because my husband had no objection when I raised this with him, secondly, this particular sister has been the only one who seems to understand my point of view. However, I understand also that she is also in a tricky situation, and as she is still unmarried and living in the home, can only follow the family's decision making. But I believe she has some sympathy for me. I only stated some home truths. Apart from this messy treatment of me being totally unacceptable by any standards. it is also not at all Islamic in the way the episode was handled. And perhaps they will at least try to see it from this point of view. I also realise that appealing to their better nature(Igive them the benefit of the doubt) might not prick their conscience in any way. But it is a load off my chest, so helped me. But I have no intentions of further communication in the future.
I shall call my solicitor today, tell him that my husband proposes to not receive the divorce papers when they are served him.
Adultery is also another option, and one to consider. However at the moment the solicitor wants to try for unreasonable behaviour.
But I'm glad that you also feel possitive about this situation. And thanks again

bro khan, thanks for your reply. It's so helpful when others respond. And makes me realise that I have huge support . My husband also admits that the faults all lie firmly with him, that I have always been completely honest and fair, and a good wife too. Like you say, he will completely understand how foolish he has been to deceive me , when indeed it will be too late.

martha · Post by **martha** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:33 pm

LATEST DEVELOPMENTS
I was stupid. I answered the phone. My husband tells again that he will not sign any papers regarding the divorce.
He also tells me that he is leaving for Pakistan within the next 3-4weeks.
Have to see the soliciotr tomorrow to sign some papers, and take in bank statements, evidence of my benefits etc so the courts can see them.
from what I now understand is that, should he not sign them,the solicitor can take another route. As I was already feeling disturbed I didnt think to ask what route they can take. Anyone any ideas please?
One other thing. As he has now decided to leave before Oct 29th(the date his visa expires) I am thinknig he knows about the new visa rules as of April 1st ie anyone leaving after April1st but before Oct can apply to come here again. Although he has a spouse visa, he was previously a failed assylum seeker. so messed with immigration. I am thinking he knows more than he lets on. Any ideas? A bit pointless I know, but I am trying to understand his behaviour. But I think I am finally seeing his true colours.
Any suggestions anyone?

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My husbands spouse visa, and his other wife!