Citizenship rule not changed for HSMP !!!!!

[push]

push if u have recieved email from Sanjana cud u plz give us highlights of that reply.

Sorry I haven't

[hsmp2010]

I think its just speculation by Sanjana, do u think some minister have such spare time to type 4 pages letter in reply to some citizen on this issue.

[hsmpengineer]

my humble opinion..which i know doesnt help us much

sanjana is a LIAR and WIND UP MERCHANT!!! FACT!

[vish_shan]

Hello all,

I have been following this thread and am a silent viewer of the topic. Since couple of days, few posters started loosing patience and started swearing and making fun of the OP. I strongly feel that every one does not have the time to come online everyday. sometimes it might be even a week.

I request moderator to delete the unwanted messages which might put off OP to carry on with the topic.


Thanks,
Vish.

[Radtw78]

If you search the previous post of the original poster.
She got HSMP in Sep 2007, and will not get ILR before July 2011.
That's the whole point.
Very unlikey someone spend so much time just to fool other people.

However, what we could do while waiting is writing to your local MP
(unless your MP is Jacqui Smith....)
MP will only raise a issue if he has received a lot of same concern from different people.

When we applied HSMP, we all need to signe a declaration "I will see UK as my main home...."
Please address this point to your MP, expressing that the "main home" now want to ditch you, it is a hint this government has no integrity and no conscience.
Once MP is convinced that this could be potentially against human right, he will write letters to UKBA and persuade them from applying new rules retrospectively.
Otherwise, we'd need to count on HSMP Forum file a lawsuit again and appeal for judical review.

[confusedhsmp]

If you search the previous post of the original poster.
She got HSMP in Sep 2007, and will not get ILR before July 2011.
That's the whole point.
Very unlikey someone spend so much time just to fool other people.

However, what we could do while waiting is writing to your local MP
(unless your MP is Jacqui Smith....)
MP will only raise a issue if he has received a lot of same concern from different people.

When we applied HSMP, we all need to signe a declaration "I will see UK as my main home...."
Please address this point to your MP, expressing that the "main home" now want to ditch you, it is a hint this government has no integrity and no conscience.
Once MP is convinced that this could be potentially against human right, he will write letters to UKBA and persuade them from applying new rules retrospectively.
Otherwise, we'd need to count on HSMP Forum file a lawsuit again and appeal for judical review.

We we have switned in to and extended to TIER 1. THe approval letter clearly states that it replaces any previous condition. Whether it replaces the binding promise we made to HO in our application is yet to be seen.
Hopefully the HO will take care of this point. BUT the other point here is in our app forms it also stated that we will quulify for ILR in accordance to rulles at the time of application. Dont confuse ILR with citizenship.

[Radtw78]

We we have switned in to and extended to TIER 1. THe approval letter clearly states that it replaces any previous condition. Whether it replaces the binding promise we made to HO in our application is yet to be seen.
Hopefully the HO will take care of this point. BUT the other point here is in our app forms it also stated that we will quulify for ILR in accordance to rulles at the time of application. Dont confuse ILR with citizenship.

Even though Home Office has the intention to apply the rules retrospectively, however, MP / High Court are the possible forces to affect the final outcome.
After all, MP / High Court's role is to watch if Home Office has abused administrative power.

The new law passed by Parliament doesn't say it will apply to people who are already in the UK. We should not just assume MPs are on Home Office's side.

We should not just sit and cry, instead we should encourage people to write your story to your local MP, telling them how unfair it's going to be to your life. The more people expressing concern , the better.

If we give up on ourselves and do nothing, then we will lose the battle.

And I still hope what this thread talked about is true, that HSMP participants can be exempt from the new rules.

[confusedhsmp]

We we have switned in to and extended to TIER 1. THe approval letter clearly states that it replaces any previous condition. Whether it replaces the binding promise we made to HO in our application is yet to be seen.
Hopefully the HO will take care of this point. BUT the other point here is in our app forms it also stated that we will quulify for ILR in accordance to rulles at the time of application. Dont confuse ILR with citizenship.

Even though Home Office has the intention to apply the rules retrospectively, however, MP / High Court are the possible forces to affect the final outcome.
After all, MP / High Court's role is to watch if Home Office has abused administrative power.

The new law passed by Parliament doesn't say it will apply to people who are already in the UK. We should not just assume MPs are on Home Office's side.

We should not just sit and cry, instead we should encourage people to write your story to your local MP, telling them how unfair it's going to be to your life. The more people expressing concern , the better.

If we give up on ourselves and do nothing, then we will lose the battle.

And I still hope what this thread talked about is true, that HSMP participants can be exempt from the new rules.

I agree

[Smart22]

We we have switned in to and extended to TIER 1. THe approval letter clearly states that it replaces any previous condition. Whether it replaces the binding promise we made to HO in our application is yet to be seen.
Hopefully the HO will take care of this point. BUT the other point here is in our app forms it also stated that we will quulify for ILR in accordance to rulles at the time of application. Dont confuse ILR with citizenship.

Even though Home Office has the intention to apply the rules retrospectively, however, MP / High Court are the possible forces to affect the final outcome.
After all, MP / High Court's role is to watch if Home Office has abused administrative power.

The new law passed by Parliament doesn't say it will apply to people who are already in the UK. We should not just assume MPs are on Home Office's side.

We should not just sit and cry, instead we should encourage people to write your story to your local MP, telling them how unfair it's going to be to your life. The more people expressing concern , the better.

If we give up on ourselves and do nothing, then we will lose the battle.

And I still hope what this thread talked about is true, that HSMP participants can be exempt from the new rules.

I agree

I think Sanajan is right
Pl follow the link below

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... nts-earned

[ashishashah]

This is good news for HSMP holders

The government will continue to meet its obligations to migrants who entered the United Kingdom on the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP) and had a legitimate expectation that they would be able to apply for and be granted indefinite leave to remain, in accordance with the Immigration Rules that were in place when they applied to the HSMP.

[Radtw78]

This is good news for HSMP holders

The government will continue to meet its obligations to migrants who entered the United Kingdom on the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP) and had a legitimate expectation that they would be able to apply for and be granted indefinite leave to remain, in accordance with the Immigration Rules that were in place when they applied to the HSMP.

lovely, now our battle goal evolves to apply citizenship with old rules after obtaining ILR, after July 2011...

[sanjana]

Copies sent to push
Good luck
Sa

[Newbie1]

Copies sent to push
Good luck
Sa

Hi,

Can someone let me know what happens to people who entered on work permit and then converted to tier1 .

As i will be completing my 5 years in Aug/Sep 11.

Thanks

[hsmp2010]

We we have switned in to and extended to TIER 1. THe approval letter clearly states that it replaces any previous condition. Whether it replaces the binding promise we made to HO in our application is yet to be seen.
Hopefully the HO will take care of this point. BUT the other point here is in our app forms it also stated that we will quulify for ILR in accordance to rulles at the time of application. Dont confuse ILR with citizenship.

Even though Home Office has the intention to apply the rules retrospectively, however, MP / High Court are the possible forces to affect the final outcome.
After all, MP / High Court's role is to watch if Home Office has abused administrative power.

The new law passed by Parliament doesn't say it will apply to people who are already in the UK. We should not just assume MPs are on Home Office's side.

We should not just sit and cry, instead we should encourage people to write your story to your local MP, telling them how unfair it's going to be to your life. The more people expressing concern , the better.

If we give up on ourselves and do nothing, then we will lose the battle.

And I still hope what this thread talked about is true, that HSMP participants can be exempt from the new rules.

I agree

I think Sanajan is right
Pl follow the link below

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... nts-earned

yes but on Home office website it says that people who will apply before july 2011 then current rules will apply for citizenship and ILR. but just like mine case i got HSMp before 7 Nov 06 and will complete ILR in mar 2012. what abt such cases , new rules will apply. but its not fair with us

[ashishashah]

@HSMP10 ,see the note about HSMP holder..I think we are safe

[push]

I have received scanned copies from Sanjana. I appreciate your spirit of helping other despite some name calling. Thanks very much.

I am waiting for her the confirm that I can post the letter after sanitizing it of the personal details if any. The link provided above says:

The government will continue to meet its obligations to migrants who entered the United Kingdom on the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP) and had a legitimate expectation that they would be able to apply for and be granted indefinite leave to remain, in accordance with the Immigration Rules that were in place when they applied to the HSMP.

The problem with the above provision is - the requirement to have a legitimate expectation for grant of ILR in accordance with immigration rules in place when they applied to the HSMP. Now those who applied after Dec06 signed on the dotted lines which said that further leave or extension will be granted based on rules in existence on such future dates. So can these guys claim that they fulfill the above criteria?

Btw. Woolas letter to Sanjana's MP/representative does not have above qualification

[push]

Is this a trick of words or I am reading too much into it?

[srirags]

push, i think u r reading too much into it bcause they have'nt mentioned anything abt our signature on dotted line and the signature on the dotted line is for flr or extension and not for ilr

[push]

push, i think u r reading too much into it bcause they have'nt mentioned anything abt our signature on dotted line and the signature on the dotted line is for flr or extension and not for ilr

Happy to be proved wrong but my contention is, if HO's intentions are clear why have they qualified the statement as above? Why not simply say that all those who got their initial leave on HSMP will be treated per citizenship rules which were in force at the time of their initial approvals?

The phrase "reasonable expectation" has it's roots in the JR decision so I think above does not automatically apply to all Hsmp ppl. Another point worth noting is that such a relaxation was never agreed or indicated during discussions on the bill. But as I said I will feel happy if I am wrong here

[tipu20]

I very much wish that we are wrong in consideration that All the HSMP are not included.

Remember that during the debate in parliament HO always said that HSMP under JR, i guess they need to classified who they are treating as HSMP?

I wish HSMP is all the people who got their initial approval as HSMP but remember After December 2006 HSMP was almost based on points based system and only new change in tier 1 after December 2006 is Maintenance fund !!!.

So may be someone who already got the response from minister might write again to check who they consider HSMP ? all the people who got their initial leave under HSMP till mid 2008 ?? or before April 2006 ?

it's just a thought while keeping the HO history in mind and thinking how come home office is very kind to all the HSMP this time !!!

Regards,
Tipu

push, i think u r reading too much into it bcause they have'nt mentioned anything abt our signature on dotted line and the signature on the dotted line is for flr or extension and not for ilr

Happy to be proved wrong but my contention is, if HO's intentions are clear why have they qualified the statement as above? Why not simply say that all those who got their initial leave on HSMP will be treated per citizenship rules which were in force at the time of their initial approvals?

The phrase "reasonable expectation" has it's roots in the JR decision so I think above does not automatically apply to all Hsmp ppl. Another point worth noting is that such a relaxation was never agreed or indicated during discussions on the bill. But as I said I will feel happy if I am wrong here

[confusedhsmp]

...........................WAiting for 'push' to post now.......

EDIITED* SOrry, but I got a point to note here. What is the test of legitimate expectation? I think applicants who were asked to make UK their main home, like us HSMP'ian (post 2006), had this and hence clearance from HO.

But what i can clearly gather from the statement is that Tier1 and or workpermit holders may not given the same treatment.

[Smart22]

...........................WAiting for 'push' to post now.......

EDIITED* SOrry, but I got a point to note here. What is the test of legitimate expectation? I think applicants who were asked to make UK their main home, like us HSMP'ian (post 2006), had this and hence clearance from HO.

But what i can clearly gather from the statement is that Tier1 and or workpermit holders may not given the same treatment.

On top on this I would like more.
HO has not given up..It covers HSMPians till 7 Nov 2006.After this whoever received HSMP they might not be covered becasue there is reason for that.If somebody applied for HSMP after 7 Nov 2006 at that time HO never promised PR in the HSMP scheme.Only HO had made promises to the HSMPians who got their approval before 7 Nov 2006.
Even the HSMPian after implimentation of new bill (After July 2011) would get PR but still they have to face New citizenship law.Because they are going to apply after implimentation of new law.As per new law you must have ILR to get 2 year benefit where u can apply under old rule.
Does it make sence???

[vc]

Had this been the case, HO would just defer the implementation to Nov 11 instead of july 11, I think anyone reading the guidance notes for hsmp issued after the changes in Nov 06 would also have legitimate expectation for settlement.

...........................WAiting for 'push' to post now.......

EDIITED* SOrry, but I got a point to note here. What is the test of legitimate expectation? I think applicants who were asked to make UK their main home, like us HSMP'ian (post 2006), had this and hence clearance from HO.

But what i can clearly gather from the statement is that Tier1 and or workpermit holders may not given the same treatment.

On top on this I would like more.
HO has not given up..It covers HSMPians till 7 Nov 2006.After this whoever received HSMP they might not be covered becasue there is reason for that.If somebody applied for HSMP after 7 Nov 2006 at that time HO never promised PR in the HSMP scheme.Only HO had made promises to the HSMPians who got their approval before 7 Nov 2006.
Even the HSMPian after implimentation of new bill (After July 2011) would get PR but still they have to face New citizenship law.Because they are going to apply after implimentation of new law.As per new law you must have ILR to get 2 year benefit where u can apply under old rule.
Does it make sence???

[Smart22]

Had this been the case, HO would just defer the implementation to Nov 11 instead of july 11, I think anyone reading the guidance notes for hsmp issued after the changes in Nov 06 would also have legitimate expectation for settlement.

...........................WAiting for 'push' to post now.......

EDIITED* SOrry, but I got a point to note here. What is the test of legitimate expectation? I think applicants who were asked to make UK their main home, like us HSMP'ian (post 2006), had this and hence clearance from HO.

But what i can clearly gather from the statement is that Tier1 and or workpermit holders may not given the same treatment.

On top on this I would like more.
HO has not given up..It covers HSMPians till 7 Nov 2006.After this whoever received HSMP they might not be covered becasue there is reason for that.If somebody applied for HSMP after 7 Nov 2006 at that time HO never promised PR in the HSMP scheme.Only HO had made promises to the HSMPians who got their approval before 7 Nov 2006.
Even the HSMPian after implimentation of new bill (After July 2011) would get PR but still they have to face New citizenship law.Because they are going to apply after implimentation of new law.As per new law you must have ILR to get 2 year benefit where u can apply under old rule.
Does it make sence???

Yes there is legitimate expectation for settlement but after how many years ??? Did it mentioned in guidence notes in post 7 Nov 2006 ?
If HO has said 5 years or 6 year or ... then yes every HSMPian has legitimate right to settle after promised period during the time when your first HSMP has been approved.

[vc]

Yes it does mention 5 years....

Had this been the case, HO would just defer the implementation to Nov 11 instead of july 11, I think anyone reading the guidance notes for hsmp issued after the changes in Nov 06 would also have legitimate expectation for settlement.

...........................WAiting for 'push' to post now.......

EDIITED* SOrry, but I got a point to note here. What is the test of legitimate expectation? I think applicants who were asked to make UK their main home, like us HSMP'ian (post 2006), had this and hence clearance from HO.

But what i can clearly gather from the statement is that Tier1 and or workpermit holders may not given the same treatment.

On top on this I would like more.
HO has not given up..It covers HSMPians till 7 Nov 2006.After this whoever received HSMP they might not be covered becasue there is reason for that.If somebody applied for HSMP after 7 Nov 2006 at that time HO never promised PR in the HSMP scheme.Only HO had made promises to the HSMPians who got their approval before 7 Nov 2006.
Even the HSMPian after implimentation of new bill (After July 2011) would get PR but still they have to face New citizenship law.Because they are going to apply after implimentation of new law.As per new law you must have ILR to get 2 year benefit where u can apply under old rule.
Does it make sence???

Yes there is legitimate expectation for settlement but after how many years ??? Did it mentioned in guidence notes in post 7 Nov 2006 ?
If HO has said 5 years or 6 year or ... then yes every HSMPian has legitimate right to settle after promised period during the time when your first HSMP has been approved.