NEW LAWS JULY 2011

[dimsav]

Actually, for me it is not a question of getting a citizenship in 6 years (which is the same) but rather ILR/PR in 5 years. The reason is that on PC you will be still restricted for extra 1-to-3 years in getting an access to (at least some of) public funds, most importantly, no "home fee" status for Higher Education studies for your kids.

In my situation, my daughter is finishing her A-levels this year. So, taking a gap year now would be still okay, but waiting for another 2 years (or 3? who knows what they decide then) is already too much (needless to say that "overseas" rate is not an option for me).

[Pierrot95]

My previous post on IEB enquiry was just a narrative intended to keep this forum informed on current instructions in UKBA on WP holders in view of July 2011 changes. It was not an intention to give any (false) hopes to WP holders, just a fact that currently UKBA refused to admit/comment any changes in near future. This is likely because of them being instructed to advice on the current legislation only. Then such a situation will probably last until an exact date of new rule implementations will be finally settled...

Do you think, is it reasonable to approach an immigration lawyer now, or they might refuse to comment on the same grounds?

dimsav,
I am rather pessimistic about any possibility to get anything for the WP holders regarding the July 2011 changes. They couldn't challenge the 4 to 5 years change, that in my view was a quite drastic and unfair change. This one is nothing in comparison. One can still get Citizenship in 6 years, and the only real difference in my view is the access to benefits (which is not the reason why we are here) that is delayed by a year. Most people will cope with the community work. I am quite happy to get involved in community affairs anyway. It is just the idea of "forced voluntary" that is crazy.

I think that the one additional year in PC is not what we should worry about. I am rather concerned about the tendency of the government to move from what was a system with simple and clear rules to a kind of blurry regime. The possibility of walking into an office and get out two hours later with an ILR sticker on your passport is quite unique in the world. We are losing it.

========

[Pierrot95]

most importantly, no "home fee" status for Higher Education studies for your kids.

You are right, I missed that one as my kids are still in Primary school.

==========

[Sky_High]

I think that the biggest mistake which WP holders has done is that they have not challenged the 4 to 5 year change seriously.

The last JR was rejected because at the time of hearing no applicant was affected with the rule. I still believe that this case can be won like HSMP plus every one on WP can also win the right to get ILR after 5 years.

However two things are very clear now

1 - Every one (Other than HSMP holders) will be affected the new rules after July-11.
2 - New system will be point based. (And like other point base systems bar can be raised).

[dimsav]

The last JR was rejected because at the time of hearing no applicant was affected with the rule. I still believe that this case can be won like HSMP plus every one on WP can also win the right to get ILR after 5 years.

How come that nobody was affected? I would anticipate that the change from 4 to 5 years would affect them as much as it did to HSMP... Anyway, WPs seem now to fight back, see Immigration Welfare. Does anyone have a contact with them? (The forum is for paid members only...) Maybe it is worth trying again now, with more WPs being affected...

1 - Every one (Other than HSMP holders) will be affected the new rules after July-11.
2 - New system will be point based. (And like other point base systems bar can be raised).

I am fine with PBS, raising bars, etc. - you just make calculations before you decide. Decision to immigrate is already a long-term commitment and not "just a trip" (as government wants us to see it), with many factors being taken into account well in advance. What drives me mad is the retroactive implementation of changes. To the best of my knowledge, this does not exist anywhere else in EU.

[dimsav]

I am rather concerned about the tendency of the government to move from what was a system with simple and clear rules to a kind of blurry regime. The possibility of walking into an office and get out two hours later with an ILR sticker on your passport is quite unique in the world. We are losing it.

I share your concern, too (the differences become explicitly seen, e.g., when trying to read and compare the "old" Part 5 and "new" Part 6A of Immigration Rules). I am afraid, however, that "uniqueness" of the UK system is rather in its "retro-activity" (that is not possible in EU) and not in getting ILR in 2 hours (that is quite common in other EU countries).

In my situation, I moved to the UK from Germany, where I lived and worked for almost 6 years. I have already earned the pension there and got German settlement permit (in less than 2 hours, by the way). Here comes the new twist: can WP holders (non-EEA) benefit from having EU settlement while applying to ILR? Is there any protection under EU laws, or none? Any comments, please...

[bani]

The last JR was rejected because at the time of hearing no applicant was affected with the rule. I still believe that this case can be won like HSMP plus every one on WP can also win the right to get ILR after 5 years.

How come that nobody was affected? I would anticipate that the change from 4 to 5 years would affect them as much as it did to HSMP...

At the time there were only 5 to 10 named claimants in the case (look up VBSI), they weren't allowed to add any more before the main hearing. These people had not been in the UK for 4 years.

Unfortunately, you cannot re-do this case. Most of the people affected by the 4-to-5 rule change now have ILR or citizenship or left the country.

[dimsav]

Bani, thanks for your clarifications regarding WP JR.

Unfortunately, you cannot re-do this case. Most of the people affected by the 4-to-5 rule change now have ILR or citizenship or left the country.

Then what would the second attempt by Immigrant Welfare mean? Nobody commented here on this activity so far (hope it isn't fake). Now there are many more WPs (also those switched to Tier 1/2) affected by coming changes, so the case would be much more stronger...

[adil2009]

Hi ,

What about upcomin election. Does this will be make any different to july 2011 law for Work permit holder to get ILR after completing 5 year?

[Casa]

Depends who wins and what their Immigration policy is.

[Sky_High]

Bani, thanks for your clarifications regarding WP JR.

Unfortunately, you cannot re-do this case. Most of the people affected by the 4-to-5 rule change now have ILR or citizenship or left the country.

Then what would the second attempt by Immigrant Welfare mean? Nobody commented here on this activity so far (hope it isn't fake). Now there are many more WPs (also those switched to Tier 1/2) affected by coming changes, so the case would be much more stronger...

They are trying to collect funds to fight the case. Because a lot of affected people already got ILR so they are not doing great. One thing which wp holders are missing is that if they win the case than any body on wp can apply ILR. So simply its not 4 to 5 year case. this is the only ray of hope for them if they do not want to be affected with July-11 rules

[manenoor]

Really....

That's interesting. I was not aware of it. I hope this go ahead.

[Sky_High]

Really....

That's interesting. I was not aware of it. I hope this go ahead.

Poor chaps have to collect some pennies first

[adil2009]

so wat you guys think ,the rules july 2011 ,will be apply on work permit holder if it is implemented ?

[Sky_High]

101% - no mercy at all

[noor1034]

101% - no mercy at all

I agree, we can only think of if some how this is delayed.....

[Sky_High]

No - if wp holders challenge 4 - 5 year changes and also challenge that their right to apply ILR should be accepted like HSMP holders than they have ray of hope.

You can not sit and do nothing.

I am sure that july-11 laws applying to those, who are already in the system, can be challenged. high court, eu court or on human right grounds.

immigrating to a new country is a life changing big decision. govt can not tell you and your families that you have been here for last five years and now go home.

Point base PC will be a pain. We do not know the point but what happen if they think that they only need to settle thirty thousand immigrant in 2012 and raise the salary bar to 80K? This system will be a polite way of telling the rest of people that you can not settle here after 5 years.

[silversurfer]

No - if wp holders challenge 4 - 5 year changes and also challenge that their right to apply ILR should be accepted like HSMP holders than they have ray of hope.

You can not sit and do nothing.

I am sure that july-11 laws applying to those, who are already in the system, can be challenged. high court, eu court or on human right grounds.

immigrating to a new country is a life changing big decision. govt can not tell you and your families that you have been here for last five years and now go home.

Point base PC will be a pain. We do not know the point but what happen if they think that they only need to settle thirty thousand immigrant in 2012 and raise the salary bar to 80K? This system will be a polite way of telling the rest of people that you can not settle here after 5 years.

I agree. All the migrants whether WP or Tier1 who were in UK before the new Law (earned citizenship) came in 2009 should get ILR in 5 years. Migrants already making their journey towards permanent resident or citizen should not be denied towards the end of it. It is like moving the goal post and makes a strong case to fight.

[adil2009]

if its true then it gonna be fine for WP holder.

[smaganti]

HI iam in the same Boat as you.I will be eligible for my ILR on 23rd July 2011. So if they change the rules on 6th of July i will not be eligible.Hopefully Toris will win the lection and scrap this rule.

[Sky_High]

HI iam in the same Boat as you.I will be eligible for my ILR on 23rd July 2011. So if they change the rules on 6th of July i will not be eligible.Hopefully Toris will win the lection and scrap this rule.

You can expect worse laws from Tories. Second thing Tories agreed with this bill so there are very small chances that they will scrap it. I do not see any point that Tories or any one can scrap this bill. At implementation stage any party can make it as much harder as they want so no need to pass any new bill.

[Pierrot95]

HI iam in the same Boat as you.I will be eligible for my ILR on 23rd July 2011. So if they change the rules on 6th of July i will not be eligible.Hopefully Toris will win the lection and scrap this rule.

You can expect worse laws from Tories. Second thing Tories agreed with this bill so there are very small chances that they will scrap it. I do not see any point that Tories or any one can scrap this bill. At implementation stage any party can make it as much harder as they want so no need to pass any new bill.

Agree,
The Tories' plan is to add caps to the point-based system. And who knows how they are going to do this.
Better the devil you know.

========

[noor1034]

Then Lib Democ ????

I wish if we able to challenge new law.

[smaganti]

so we don't have any ray of hope that the rule will be changed.

[dimsav]

Well, LibDems would probably be the best option in our situation.
- First, they seem to be more immigrant-friendly and are definitely more "pro-EU", meaning that they could care indeed about immigrant's rights (retroactive changes are against the EU law, afaik);
- Second, a possible hung parliament would likely mean a delay with the Bill implementation... (with a small hope that it wont happen at all).

I think that now, with many WP holders being affected, there is a strong case to challenge new law on the basis of human rights violation. Question is how and when?

One way is to help Immigrant Welfare to raise the needed funds.

Another option is to act on your own, making personal cases (by the way, who knows how expensive this, with solicitors etc, could be?)

Also, we may think about drawing public's attention to the problem. Say, set up an on-line petition to protect our rights and ask colleagues, employers, friends, etc to sign it... MPs should be contacted as soon as they get elected, too.