Citizenship 'denied for penalty points'

[9jeirean]

Of course it's a bit more fancy to sit in a solicitor's office even if all you do is make tea for the solicitor and his clients while spending the rest of the day making pejorative remarks about immigrants on public forums.[/quot
You should look up the term Legal Executive, they are almost on par with a solicitor in terms of work and legal knowledge, perhaps you are thinking of legal secretary, which wouldn't make the tea either, unless they were a junior assistant of some sort.

9eirean

thanks for pointing out the fact that i need to update my profile of something like 3 years ago. It would not hurt to actually read that website you referred to because you are sounding like an idiot. By the way, if you actually read my previous posts, you will also be aware that legal executives don't just work in solicitor offices. I have on a number of occassions pointed out that I have worked in various units in various departments like department of justice (probabtion) and education. dealing in those areas meant coming across non nationals who have some similar problems like you (IBC at the time)

I left all that. I am self employed, still doing ok .

Funny enough, there is absolutely nothing that you have done to give counter argument to any points raised by me. I must say, I have nothing but the uptmost respect for patty, at least he / she makes an attempt. stick to what i am actually saying if you wish to comment.

Not always fun when you are on the other side of pejorative remarks right? It's 2010 dude, RESPECT is the word. Learn to give it then you'll receive it. Hey it's the weekend after all, so am gonna let this one just fade

Slan

9j

[Southern_Sky]

''This is by no means an isolated incident; we have come across many such examples in our legal clinic.

We recently met a woman whose application for naturalisation was refused because she is in receipt of single parent family supplement.''

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/let ... 65342.html

[walrusgumble]

Of course it's a bit more fancy to sit in a solicitor's office even if all you do is make tea for the solicitor and his clients while spending the rest of the day making pejorative remarks about immigrants on public forums.[/quot
You should look up the term Legal Executive, they are almost on par with a solicitor in terms of work and legal knowledge, perhaps you are thinking of legal secretary, which wouldn't make the tea either, unless they were a junior assistant of some sort.

9eirean

thanks for pointing out the fact that i need to update my profile of something like 3 years ago. It would not hurt to actually read that website you referred to because you are sounding like an idiot. By the way, if you actually read my previous posts, you will also be aware that legal executives don't just work in solicitor offices. I have on a number of occassions pointed out that I have worked in various units in various departments like department of justice (probabtion) and education. dealing in those areas meant coming across non nationals who have some similar problems like you (IBC at the time)

I left all that. I am self employed, still doing ok .

Funny enough, there is absolutely nothing that you have done to give counter argument to any points raised by me. I must say, I have nothing but the uptmost respect for patty, at least he / she makes an attempt. stick to what i am actually saying if you wish to comment.

Not always fun when you are on the other side of pejorative remarks right? It's 2010 dude, RESPECT is the word. Learn to give it then you'll receive it. Hey it's the weekend after all, so am gonna let this one just fade

Slan

9j

Learn to give it and take it? What are you on about?. I am not the one who is taking it personal. In fact, I had difficulty not to fall off my chair laughing when I read comments about tea boy and legal executives. How about learn to get your facts and refrain from using grossly inaccurate and iresponsible comments and get your facts right / or at least provide a solid argument before being challenged! Ye the ones making it personal when you can't make a solid counter argument. You are then forced to put the white flag up when your comment is challenged and you are found out.


I don't recall me being on the other side of pejorative remarks. In fairness to all of ye who began to take things personal towards me, ye have been nothing but polite. I expect hard pointers/ arguments made towards me. Its no skin off my nose. I am well capable of fighting my corner. Any comments raised by me is not intended to hurt or abuse people. But they are put there to inform you of the attitudes, beliefs of the people from the other side. That way, no one here becomes delusional or one sided and self serving. THat way, the smart people, for there are many here, will find a way to get round the problems. When I can think of a solution, I will give it.

The problem though, and I have noticed this with my immigrant friends, when you or others are actually explaining to them the reasons for policies (and making sure you have proper sources) unless to caveat every single sentence, you get mauled and accused of beloved and are returned with beloved from them about your (mine) country, as if they are the only ones. As if they were one's own personal comments. I try to refrain from expressing my personal views because, as this is an ADVICE site, they are irrevelant as I am not a department staff member (if i was i would not be commenting at all) If that is the attitude then there is no point sharing information from what ones knows through their experiences. Don't shoot the messagener. It will forever result in ye getting no where in life here, led only to more frustration. Use your head and not your heart, but don't loose either

Ireland gets a lot of stick about its attitude towards Europe and sheer constant ability at playing the hand in cap shilling for the babe lark whilst coming across as being ungrateful. People conviently forget the contributions Irelad gives with its vast fishing potential (which is now destroyed) or the fact that Ireland and UK were one of few EU states who welcomed/opened the door to the Poles etc without need for work permits in 2004, thereby assisting those countries to release the pressure of high unemployment low wages etc and allow them to come over, get some money and send it home. The European Union most countries signed up for was for economic assistance and not neccessarily an interference with their soverign right over other non economic issues. Lisbon was one example and the then Swedish Commission and current President were arrogant and showed that small nations will be ignored by the big four. (ie it was about looking for a fair and transparent europe for all - anyway that is for a different thread)

Have a good weekend. But do seek advice about the penalty points matter. The Minister is still required to abide by fair procedures. Cases may at least force minister to make application forms more transparent. It may generate public sympathy. It is possible in some cases as seen in England, and here in Ireland to challenge the "good character" requirement

[walrusgumble]

Anyway, it occurred to me, that for those who got penalised soley for lousy penalty points (with no court appearance)

there is absolutely nothing in the application form that tells you that you must disclose this fact! isn't that unfair procedures. For those who got refused, i would not take that lying down. speak to a lawyer or legal advice office

This is the root of the problem that minister cannot be taken to court over refusing someone citizenship, cases gets thrown out or don't pass preliminary stage / clearance (whatever you call it in legal terms) because judges agreeing with the minister's discretion lark. You have a user just above stating that he knows someone who got approved being convicted of drink driving. This is why i am keep harping that this naturalisation system is discrimnatory! So for e.g. tommorow your non-eu spouse or a person on permit gets refused he/she would never know what was refual for. Hope you get it now.

And as far as calling Ireland "Eire" is concern, I will call whatever I like (Irlandia, Irlanda, Irsko, Irska, Irlanti, Irija, Irlande, banana republic, leprechaun land) tough cookies for you! We live in a free society don't we? And no i haven't got a slap across the face in pubs calling Ireland Eire infact people tend to like it. Dont know which pub yous are hanging out.

The use of the term Eire, when speaking the english language, particularly by those from past British governments and British media was preceived to be associated with a condescending attitude to Ireland in some right wing quarters. With the situation as it was then in the North, some media boyos in England revelled in using the term when being disengenous about the country of 26. It was widely used by the British authorities in the 1930's to undermine our Constitution. The English FA enjoyed doing this in the past, until the FAI (and not the IFA) cracked them on the knuckles for this)

The use of the term, then was offensive to biligniual citizens of this country. If a French or German did it, that is one thing (the french do use Eire when televising rugby matches) as how are they to know. A different story with the British. Again, would you call Wales Cyrumu? If not why not? If the Irish use it, that is different its their choice

I am sure that you have heard the phrase that give them shi*e on a stick and they will be happy. In fairness, many people would be clueless of the history, of our country, bar a dallop of 1916-1923 and bar a spinning off the shelf populist (though many well researched) history books. Imagine, laughing it off despite being slagged off and not knowing it. In fairness, Irish people don't take them selves seriously, which is a good thing. But then again, you will see many bar stool republicans in celtic fc tops shouting this and that about england whilst watching a premiership match

we have people creaming themselves because the term is use on our coins, passport and soccer jersey. its trendy to use irish names for their offspring and nonsensical names for estates to make them sound posh, yet have damn all ability to speak the language. making out oh well we use it so so what.


http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/%C9ire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ire

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Discuss:What_ ... _word_Eire

http://www.gaire.com/e/f/view.asp?parent=331390&nav=4

http://irishkc.com/ireland-andor-eire.htm

Before you ask, no I have never made any comments on the above threads.

The slap in the face bit was harsh, more a bollocking would be appropriate. But, then, pubs are not the place to do this. The British government have refrained from using the term, I thought its subjects had moved on as well. (I am assuming you are British, please correct me if I am wrong) I would imagine you wouldn't get far calling the country cookie or leprachun land without a few digs to auld blighty ( I would hope it would be in all the best possible taste and banter)

Out of interest what do you call Germany, Zimbabwe, Burma etc?

So using the term makes you come across as a wee bit ignorant

[walrusgumble]

mistake

[Tandor]

Interesting article in the IT this morning. 26 Months delay, 12900 sent back due to incorrect form filling, 6200 did not meet statutory requirements, 5700 approved and 1400 refused due to applicants character and/or perceived inability to support themselves and their dependants.


[quote]

ALMOST HALF the 26,100 people who applied for Irish citizenship in the 12 months to June 30th, 2010, have had their applications forms sent back because they didn’t fill them in correctly.

New figures released by the Department of Justice yesterday show its citizenship division is struggling to cope with a deluge of applications, with average processing times now 26 months.

A note on the citizenship division’s website warns applicants that 10 per cent of all its resources are wasted on assessing poor-quality applications, which have to be returned. The main reasons are: a failure to provide certified copies of documents (39 per cent); statutory declarations not completed correctly (25 per cent); affidavits needed (15 per cent); supporting documentation needed (10 per cent); name discrepancies between form and certificates of birth and marriage (5 per cent); and forms being incomplete or altered with correction fluid.

In an answer to a parliamentary question from Fine Gael TD Alan Shatter, Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern revealed 12,900 invalid applications were sent back in the year to June 2010. Some 6,200 valid applications were deemed ineligible as the applicant did not meet statutory requirements. Some 5,700 valid applications were approved and 1,400 refused.

“The main negative factors contributing to refusal of naturalisation are where I cannot be satisfied that applicants are of good character and/or have not demonstrated that they are in a position to support themselves and their dependants into the future,â€