Travel to Schengen, without visa, for EEA-family members

[ca.funke]

And if you're superman, you might even be able to build an Eyefull Twin.

From a practical point of view, have a nice meal in the airport or buy a good book.

My wife and me once had 2 stops of ~5 hour each in Budapest (DUB-BUD-BEY-BUD-DUB). We went out, rented a taxi and told the driver to show us the nicest areas of town, and make sure we´re back in time... Have to say: I wouldn´t wanna have missed it. I can´t follow your concern.

[TomInHongKong]

Thanks for the advice, Christian.

I know the time is short, but we have been advised by friends in Paris that the metro can get you right into the centre of town pretty quickly. It'll be about rush hour when we arrive, and we've been told that a taxi could take over an hour in bad traffic. Even that, though, would leave us some time.

Anyway, my wife has never seen Paris and would dearly love to catch a glimpse of it. All we'd really look to do would be visit the Eiffel Tower (not go up it), sit in a cafe and have a cup of coffee and a croisant.

As long as we can clear immigration without too much delay, we're definitely going to give it a shot. I've already seen a few posts and blogs out there from people who made the most of their 5 hour layover in Paris (they didn't have any immigration issues, however).

[ca.funke]

...I've already seen a few posts and blogs out there from people who made the most of their 5 hour layover in Paris (they didn't have any immigration issues, however).

You might be tempted to tell them "come on, let us pass, we just want to look around for 5 hours and then continue...".

I´m not sure if I would do that... Reason is, that they might think it´s "just" a good trick to get in...

...whatever you decide to do, please do give feedback afterwards on how it went!

Rgds, Christian

[docteurbenway]

Hi, I'm in a slightly different (and more tricky) boat. I've been around the web for hours trying to find something definitive. I've printed out the Directive in French (because I'm going to France), but it still isn't exactly 'straight forward'. Grateful for advice.

I'm a UK citizen (full British passport) and my wife is Chinese (with UK ILE). We live in Hong Kong.

We are going back to the UK next week, and the flight has a layover in Paris. As a Chinese citizen my wife doesn't need a transit visa, so can stay in the airport just fine. But we have five hours, so...

What's our best approach to the immigration people at CDG? My wife's ILE vignette states 'Settlement Spouse/CP - (my name)', and we will be travelling together, can show both our passports, our marriage certificate (with translation), proof of our residence in Hong Kong and our onward flight details for London. Will also take the Directive in French. What else should I be considering, because honestly the vast majority of opinion out there is that my wife needs a visa.

Thanks.

Does your wife hold a Hong Kong SAR passport or a British National Overseas passport?

If so she is visa free in Schengen anyway.

[TomInHongKong]

Does your wife hold a Hong Kong SAR passport or a British National Overseas passport?

If so she is visa free in Schengen anyway.

Unfortunately she has a mainland Chinese passport, which is one of the worst to travel on. As a British passport holder I sometimes forget how lucky I am to be able to just book a flight and take off to so many places without having to worry about visas.

[ca.funke]

...mainland Chinese passport, which is one of the worst to travel on...

Believe me, any middle eastern passport is worse!

Not only do you need visas to practically everywhere, but also you´re treated like a potential terrorist on arrival, no matter if you have a visa or not. And obviously the partner (that would be me) with a European passport is included in the scrutiny

For Chinese, the worst worry authorities have is that you want to stay or carry funny food-items. Not so bad, believe me

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Does your wife hold a Hong Kong SAR passport or a British National Overseas passport?

If so she is visa free in Schengen anyway.

Unfortunately she has a mainland Chinese passport, which is one of the worst to travel on. As a British passport holder I sometimes forget how lucky I am to be able to just book a flight and take off to so many places without having to worry about visas.

How true.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

And if you're superman, you might even be able to build an Eyefull Twin.

From a practical point of view, have a nice meal in the airport or buy a good book.

My wife and me once had 2 stops of ~5 hour each in Budapest (DUB-BUD-BEY-BUD-DUB). We went out, rented a taxi and told the driver to show us the nicest areas of town, and make sure we´re back in time... Have to say: I wouldn´t wanna have missed it. I can´t follow your concern.

I've done quite a lot of traveling over the last couple of years (as I'm sure you have). I've noticed increased waiting times at both security and passport control, planes don't always arrive on time. I struggle to see what one could do in five hours without risking missing the connection. Twelve hours yes I'd consider some sightseeing, five hours maybe not. That's the concern I was trying to express.

[TomInHongKong]

Ok, so my wife and I have arrived in the UK and it's time to update you on our detour to Paris. As we approached HKG by bus a pretty huge storm hit us. I've seen more rain before, but never so much lightning. Our flight to Paris was, perforce, delayed and we arrived at CDG nearly three hours behind schedule. At that point it would have been merely an amusing diversion to have tried to pass immigration, as we had no chance of reaching the city. Still, since we had all of the documentation with us, we thought "Why not?". We joined the 'EU Passports' queue and soon enough were at the front of the line. We stepped forward together, I said "Bonjour" and handed both of our passports to the official. He looked at my wife's Chinese passport and gave her a slightly quizical look, so I said "We are travelling together, under the EEA Family Member thing.". The official nodded, flicked through my wife's passport to her UK ILE visa, picked up his stamp then hesitated, briefly, as though mulling something over in his mind. The second or two that passed seemed like an age. He stamped the page and then hesitated again. He shrugged, returned our passports to us and we were through. Perhaps he didn't really pause or hesitate; perhaps he was just taking a while to read through the English; or perhaps I was looking for trouble that wasn't there. Maybe he was wondering whether or not he was supposed to use the stamp (I believe he was not supposed to stamp my wife's passport, but I didn't want to mess things up by saying so at the time). Anyway, we were through, and much more easily than I had imagined. Wd went outside, took a couple of photos and then it was time to head towards our connecting flight. As we went through passport control again, the official (different guy) asked where my wife's visa was. I replied that we were travelling together under the EEA Family Member thing. He asked "Where is your card?", meaning, I suppose, the card that other EU countries issue but not the UK. I started to explain our situation to the official but he cut me short with a disinterested shrug and handed back our passports, waving us through. No exit stamp and no real problem. Did we jist get lucky? Well, we certainly felt as though we did, but thanks to Christian for his advice and encouragement.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Good for you. Interesting story. Next time I hope you can book a longer connection and have some real time to see the city.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Ok, so my wife and I have arrived in the UK and it's time to update you on our detour to Paris. As we approached HKG by bus a pretty huge storm hit us. I've seen more rain before, but never so much lightning. Our flight to Paris was, perforce, delayed and we arrived at CDG nearly three hours behind schedule. At that point it would have been merely an amusing diversion to have tried to pass immigration, as we had no chance of reaching the city. Still, since we had all of the documentation with us, we thought "Why not?". We joined the 'EU Passports' queue and soon enough were at the front of the line. We stepped forward together, I said "Bonjour" and handed both of our passports to the official. He looked at my wife's Chinese passport and gave her a slightly quizical look, so I said "We are travelling together, under the EEA Family Member thing.". The official nodded, flicked through my wife's passport to her UK ILE visa, picked up his stamp then hesitated, briefly, as though mulling something over in his mind. The second or two that passed seemed like an age. He stamped the page and then hesitated again. He shrugged, returned our passports to us and we were through. Perhaps he didn't really pause or hesitate; perhaps he was just taking a while to read through the English; or perhaps I was looking for trouble that wasn't there. Maybe he was wondering whether or not he was supposed to use the stamp (I believe he was not supposed to stamp my wife's passport, but I didn't want to mess things up by saying so at the time). Anyway, we were through, and much more easily than I had imagined. Wd went outside, took a couple of photos and then it was time to head towards our connecting flight. As we went through passport control again, the official (different guy) asked where my wife's visa was. I replied that we were travelling together under the EEA Family Member thing. He asked "Where is your card?", meaning, I suppose, the card that other EU countries issue but not the UK. I started to explain our situation to the official but he cut me short with a disinterested shrug and handed back our passports, waving us through. No exit stamp and no real problem. Did we jist get lucky? Well, we certainly felt as though we did, but thanks to Christian for his advice and encouragement.

Your wife has ILE. That is not considered a "Residence Card" issued to family members of an EU citizen on the basis of EU law. So she should have had the passport stamped.

Glad your (short) time in France went well.

[ca.funke]

Hi TomInHongKong,

thanks for the story/the update.

You effectively travelled on the >>EEA family member without Residence Card (Part 2)<< regulation, although from your description the IOs in CDG didn´t seem to be aware as to why they let you pass...

This tells me that my >>suggestions<< would not only make travelling more convenient for people in rare scenarios, it would also make our borders safer because IOs wouldn´t have to learn that many (odd and rare) rules for strange exceptions.

Thanks again for the great update

[chokedup]

Hi, i just wanted say thanks for the information provided here, as i have just travelled from London-Sicily-London , I have Residence permit EEA family member issued on A4 sheet. i had no problem going to Sicily as i was travelling with my wife, on my way back the Ryan air check in desk staff got confused as they had never seen A4 visa before they thought it was a photocopy! lol, for about ten minutes 3 Italian immigration officers interrogated my visa and then they said its OK. on arrival to London Stansted airport i queued in ALL other Passports queue with my wife for one hour, just to find out that i can next time use EU passport queue and dont need to fill up a landing card either!!!
I did complaint to UK officer about this A4 visa and he replied that Italians have problem issuing their own visa/passport/documents they dont know what they are doing! ignore them!!!

Note: before travelling email the embassy for the country you are travelling just to be on the safe side whether or not you need a Schengen visa, As i think only Lithuania does not let you in with EEA family member permit!!!
Thanks

[rlobo]

Folks,

As promised, here's an account of my trip with my partner to Portugal.

Background: I am an Indian national, my unmarried partner of 3 years is Dutch, and we live together in the UK - the relationship based on which I now have a Residence card as family member of the EEA national.

Pre-requisites: Armed with printouts of the EU directive, the Border Guards' handbook, + proof of living together, such as bills, mail, joint bank account statement.

The trip: A wedding in Madeira Portugal, but trip via Faro, Portugal. Transport: Easyjet for onward journey from the new London- Southend Airport to Faro. Easyjet again from Porto, Portugal to London Gatwick.

The Experience: having tried easyJet before, we were fairly confident that we would not have had a problem at Southend Airport, but were quite concerned about the Portuguese authorities. As hoped, things went well at the easyjet counter, fairly quickly we were on our flight.
When we landed at Faro, we chose to go through the EU passport section, with fingers crossed, but armed with documentation. But we needn't have worried - the lady officer at the counter was really on top of her game. She did ask me a few standard questions like how long we were going to be there and what the plan was, etc. Had a bit of a chat about madeira as apparently she was born there. She asked if we were flying out of Faro as well, we said no, Porto. She said all good, but she stamped my passport. (Yes yes I know she isn't supposed to, but having read the portuguese version of the directive, I think they can if they choose to. And quite frankly, I was just happy there was no hassle, so I didn't care about a stamp on my passport.)
Especially after the Holland episode previously, we couldn't believe just how EASY it was!!! We were actually quite stunned. If only it was always like this!

Return Journey: At the passport control, it was just as easy as the entry session. Again, my passport was stamped by the officer, and he wished us a safe flight.

Not once did we have to refer or even mention the directive, proof of relationship, Eu laws or anything at all!

And really, anyone wanting a holiday should seriously consider Portugal - its such a beautiful country, especially in the Algarve and the shoreline - and we found the people in general to be quite chilled out and friendly.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

e use EU passport queue and dont need to fill up a landing card either!!!
I did complaint to UK officer about this A4 visa and he replied that Italians have problem issuing their own visa/passport/documents they dont know what they are doing! ignore them!!!

please read this thread

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=99483

[John G]

Hi All,

I have read this thread with interest. I need advice/help!!??

I'll explain our situation briefly. I am a dual Italian/Australian passport holder, my partner is a Colombian national and our daughter (7 months old) is a dual English/Australian passport holder.

My partner has a the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since 2005.

We want to travel to France for the Tour De France and then later in August, to Spain/Italy to visit family.

I have e-mailed the Italians/French and Spanish consulate to make sure it's all OK and I am having issues with the "proof of relationship". Because we are NOT married and in a de-facto relationship the Italians insist she has to get a Visa. (which I think is basically discrimination!) I am waiting for a reply from the French and Spanish.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Copy/paste below of correspondence thus far with the French:

From: Me Date: 2012-05-29 09:22:11
To whom it may concern,

I hope this e-mail finds you well.

I had a question regarding the EEA visa rights for my partner.

My partner is a Colombian national and she has the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since 2005 and now have a beautiful 7 month old daughter.

From what I understand, my partner has the right, with the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National", to enter and leave all countries that form part of the EEA (which obviously France does) without the need of a 'Schengen visa' as long as she is travelling with me.

In July 2012, we have the intention of going to France to watch the Tour De France. In order for us to organise our trip without any worries, can you please confirm that my partner will not require the 'Schengen visa' to travel to France and that she has the right to enter/leave France with her "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" so long as she is travelling with me?

As additional information, I can confirm that I have an Italian passport and our daughter has an English passport. Also, we are NOT married and are a de-facto couple (I am not sure if this matters? I tell you this because the Italian Consulate in London has insisted that Italian authorities may ask for a marriage certificate and negate our entry/exit!). Please also confirm the fact that we are NOT married does not restrict our EU rights under EU DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC?

I would appreciate a prompt reply at your earliest convenience so we can finalise our itinerary for this trip.

Best Regards

John


From: TLScontact Date: 2012-05-30 16:16:33
Dear Applicant,


If your British residency card states "Family Member of an EEA national", this family member is not a French or UK citizen, you have official documentation to prove this relationship and you are either travelling together with this person or going to meet them in France, you do not require a visa to travel. However, if you fail to meet any of these criteria, you do require a visa to travel. Please note the the exact words "Family Member of an EEA national" must be written on your residency card and that the quality of simply "being" a family member of an EEA national does not remove the passport holder's requirement to obtain a visa for travel.


Kind regards,

TLScontact Team

From: Me Date: 2012-05-30 16:29:49
Hi,

OK, we meet all that criteria.

But what do you define as "official documentation to prove this relationship"?

We have already proven to the UK Authorities that we are in a genuine relationship etc etc otherwise they would not have issued the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016 to my partner!

Please clarify, what official documentation to prove this relationship would be sufficient?... especially considering we are NOT married and thus don't have a marriage certificate.

Would Utility Bills/Joint Bank statements etc be sufficient?

Thanks in advance

John

[John G]

Check out what the Italians say, please read from the bottom up!



idiotasssssssssss

Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> 29 May 2012 12:21
To: John

Dear Sir / Madam,

for all information and booking please visit our internet sites at :
www.conslondra.esteri.it and www.esteri.it.

Yours faithfully,
paola manti
Visa Section.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sir,

as clearly stated in our website (since you do not have a wedding certificate), your partner should ask a
visa to go to Italy.

Regards,
paola manti
visa office
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: martedì 29 maggio 2012 11.33
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: Re: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

Paola,

I am not asking about the EU EEA visa rights. You have been very clear in that the Italian border authorities
may ask for a marriage certificate at the border control and thus it's probably best we apply for the visa.
I am asking about point 4 below in application for the FREE visa. Which states:

4) marriage certificate in original and photocopy (if the marriage certificate was not issued in the UK,
it must be translated in English and the original document must be legalized by the Consulate/High
Commission of the issuing country);30/05/2012 Gmail - EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

So I ask AGAIN, since we DO NOT have a marriage certificate, what alternative documents are required
to fulfil point 4?

Thanks in advance
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 29 May 2012 11:23, Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> wrote:

Dear Sir,

we have just answered you.

As said, your partner can be asked to present the wedding certificate while she presents her passport
with the EEA family member UK visa.

We do not escalate e-mail: i'm the responible of the Visa Office

Regards,
paola manti
visa office
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: martedì 29 maggio 2012 8.45
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: Re: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

Hi Paola,

Can you please answer my question below?
Thanks
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 28 May 2012 16:53, John wrote:
Paola,

You have not answered my question.

So what do you suggest we bring for point 4 below?!?

Please answer my question or alternatively, please escalate my e-mail to your line manager.

Best
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 28 May 2012 16:47, Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> wrote:
Dear Sir,

as said:
we recognize only the marriage certificate.

Regards,
paola manti
visa office
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: lunedì 28 maggio 2012 15.48
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: Re: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"
Paola,30/05/2012 Gmail - EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

So what do you suggest we bring for point 4 below?!?

Surely it's illegal to discriminate against us simple because we are not married and in a De facto
relationship!?? I feel like we are a being treated like pariah! De facto relationships are very common
in this day and age, not everyone is married. How do you deal with same sex couple then?

In addition, in order for my partner to receive the visa "Residence Card of a Family Member of an
EEA National" from UK authorities we have already proven our relationship status etc to the UK
Authorities.

Is the checks of the UK Authorities not sufficient under Italian Law?

We are also travelling to Spain and they have confirmed that we don't require a Visa and they are
complying to the same EU DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC!!

Thanks
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 28 May 2012 15:30, Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> wrote:
Dear Sir,
we recognize only the marriage certificate.
Regards,
paola manti
visa office
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: lunedì 28 maggio 2012 15.20
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: Re: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"
Hi Paola,
According to your website:
http://www.conslondra.esteri.it/Consola ... in_italia/
"Bringing a copy of marriage certificate or proof of relationship is advisable."
Considering we don't have a marriage certificate, what other proof of relationship is
admissible?
Thanks
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 28 May 2012 15:04, Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> wrote:
Dear Sir,

please note that we do not have a official EU lawyer.
A previously said:
as according to the EU Directive 2004/38/CE, family members of EU citizens who are not
citizen of a Member State, but that hold on their passport the new residence permits issued
by the British Home Office bearing the specific following indication:30/05/2012 Gmail - EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

RESIDENCE DOCUMENTATION
Type of Document : Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National
will not need a Schengen visa for a short stay when visiting Italy ONLY together with
EU spouse. If you intend to visit any other Schengen Country you must enquire with that
Country’s Consulate first on whether they willrequest you to have a visa before you travel.
Please note: any other wording on your resident permit will indicate you need to
request a visa.
You should thus apply for a complimentary visa presenting the following supporting
documents:
1) application form (available on our website: www.conslondra.esteri.it
<http://www.conslondra.esteri.it> );
2) applicant's passport;
3) spouse EU original Passport and photocopy:
4) marriage certificate in original and photocopy (if the marriage certificate was not issued
in the UK, it must be translated in English and the original document must be legalized by the
Consulate/High Commission of the issuing country);
5) travel insurance;
6) one passport size photo;
7) flight ticket
The visa is free of charge only if applicant travels with EU spouse.
To apply for a visa you must also book an appointment through our ON-LINE
BOOKING SYSTEM (free service) available 24 hours at: https://web.esteri.it/
prenotaOnline/login.aspx?cidsede=100041&returnUrl=/prenotaOnline/ (visit our web pages
for: visa forms, documents, requirements, types of visas etc. : www.conslondra.esteri.it
and www.esteri.it ). We set a specific slot only for spouses/children of European Union
citizens

Italian citizens’ spouses do not require an appointment so long that the family is registered at the AIRE
office of the Consulate General of Italy in London and that the marriage has been registered there too.

We need at least 2 working days to process your visa (for some countries we need up to
10 days). So, please, apply for your visa no later than 6 weeks prior to your
departure date.
The Visa Section is open to the public by appointment ONLYMonday to Friday , 9:00am
to 12:00 noon.

Our address is:Consulate General of Italy - Visa Section, 136 Buckingham Palace Road,
London SW1W 9SA.

Yours faithfully,
Paola Manti
Visa Section
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: lunedì 28 maggio 2012 13.52
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: Re: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

Hi Paola,

I don't question that you are trying to provide me with the correct information and I genuinely
appreciate your prompt replies!

As you can imagine, we prefer to travel to Italy without having to apply for a Visa. Based on what
I have read, I believe that I have grounds to dispute this view/interpretation of DIRECTIVE
2004/58/EC.

Can you please confirm the situation with your official EU lawyer? and/or inform me of the official
procedure to dispute this interpretation by yourselves of DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC?

Many thanks in advance
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 28 May 2012 13:41, Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> wrote:
Dear Sir,
please note that we usully try to give right information.
At the airport you can be asked to show the wedding certificate.
Regards,
paola manti
visa office
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: lunedì 28 maggio 2012 13.30
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: Re: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

Hi Paola,

Are you sure this is correct?

I have read substantial information on this particular EU Law and I am certain you can't make
this distinction based on whether we are legally married. We have lived together as a couple
for over 3 years and have a 7 month old daughter together. In addition, my partner has the
required RESIDENCE DOCUMENTATION which states "Residence Card of a Family Member
of an EEA National".

Please read the following guidance on applying this EU Law:
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.en06.pdf

Can you please double check/confirm what the situation is with your EU legal representative
and confirm either way?

Thank you in advance
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 28 May 2012 13:17, Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> wrote:30/05/2012 Gmail - EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"
Dear Sir,

if you are not married, she should apply for a visa.

Regards,
paola manti
visa office

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: lunedì 28 maggio 2012 13.09
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: Re: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

Hi Paola,

Thank you for the prompt reply and confirmation.

My partners passport and visa does fulfil the below criteria.

One more quick question, can you also confirm that we will not have any issues/questions
regarding the fact we are not currently married?

You specify "EU Spouse" below, but technically she is not my spouse but instead my defacto partner. Is this an issue/problem?

I look forward to your prompt reply.

Best Regards
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 28 May 2012 12:57, Ufficio Visti <visti.londra@esteri.it> wrote:
Dear Sir/Madam,

according to the EU Directive 2004/38/CE, family members of EU citizens who are not citizen of a
Member State, but that hold on their passport the new residence permits issued by the British
Home Office bearing the specific following indication:

RESIDENCE DOCUMENTATION
Type of Document : Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National
will not need a Schengen visa for a short stay when visiting Italy ONLYtogether with EU
spouse.

If you intend to visit any other Schengen Country you must enquire with that Country’s
Consulate first on whether they will request you to have a visa before you travel.

Please note: any other wording on your resident permit will indicate you needto request a visa.

Yours faithfully,
Paola Manti
Visa Section
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: John
Inviato: domenica 27 maggio 2012 21.49
A: Consolato d'Italia nel Regno Unito Londra Visti
Oggetto: EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"30/05/2012 Gmail - EEA rights under "Residence Card of a Family Member of a EEA national"

To whom it may concern,

I hope this e-mail finds you well.

I had a question regarding the EEA visa rights for my partner.
My partner is a Colombian national and she has the "Residence Card of a Family
Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since
2005 and now have a beautiful 7 month old daughter.

From what I understand, my partner has the right, with the "Residence Card of a Family
Member of an EEA National", to enter and leave all countries that form part of the EEA
(which obviously Italy does) without the need of a 'Schengen visa' as long as she is
travelling with me. Please find attached a document I found on the Internet which confirms
this as European law.

Towards the end of August 2012, we have the intention of visiting family we have in
Veneto, Italy. In order for us to organise our trip without any worries, can you please
confirm that my partner will not require the 'Schengen visa' to travel to Italy and that she
has the right to enter/leave Italy with her "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA
National" so long as she is travelling with me?

As additional information, I can confirm that I have an Italian passport and our daughter
has an English passport.

I would appreciate a prompt reply at your earliest convenience so we can finalise our
itinerary for this trip.

Best Regards
John

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Beautiful correspondence! In fairness to the embassy staff, they warned that the problem may be a zealous border guard.

Now here's the thing. The article 10 residence card excepts your family member from the visa requirement is traveling with the EU family member. You will most likely be able to board the plane.

On arrival, you should not be asked for your marriage certificate. As you are Italian you should easily be able to argue your case!

Take a copy of the Schengen guard's handbook if you have any doubt.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The Italians transpose article 3.2 (b) as follows

b) il partner con cui il cittadino
dell'Unione abbia una relazione
stabile debitamente attestata dallo
Stato del cittadino dell'Unione.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

And article 5.2 thus

2. I familiari non aventi la
cittadinanza di uno Stato membro
sono assoggettati all'obbligo del
visto d'ingresso, nei casi in cui e'
richiesto. Il possesso della carta di
soggiorno di cui all'articolo 10 in
corso di validità esonera
dall'obbligo di munirsi del visto.

No mention of marriage certificate!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The border manual

http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.it06.pdf

[John G]

Beautiful correspondence! In fairness to the embassy staff, they warned that the problem may be a zealous border guard.

Now here's the thing. The article 10 residence card excepts your family member from the visa requirement is traveling with the EU family member. You will most likely be able to board the plane.

On arrival, you should not be asked for your marriage certificate. As you are Italian you should easily be able to argue your case!

Take a copy of the Schengen guard's handbook if you have any doubt.

Guru,

Thanks for links etc

Do you have a link for the "Schengen guard's handbook"?

Thanks again

John

[John G]

Hi All,

I have read this thread with interest. I need advice/help!!??

I'll explain our situation briefly. I am a dual Italian/Australian passport holder, my partner is a Colombian national and our daughter (7 months old) is a dual English/Australian passport holder.

My partner has a the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since 2005.

We want to travel to France for the Tour De France and then later in August, to Spain/Italy to visit family.

I have e-mailed the Italians/French and Spanish consulate to make sure it's all OK and I am having issues with the "proof of relationship". Because we are NOT married and in a de-facto relationship the Italians insist she has to get a Visa. (which I think is basically discrimination!) I am waiting for a reply from the French and Spanish.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Copy/paste below of correspondence thus far with the French:

From: Me Date: 2012-05-29 09:22:11
To whom it may concern,

I hope this e-mail finds you well.

I had a question regarding the EEA visa rights for my partner.

My partner is a Colombian national and she has the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since 2005 and now have a beautiful 7 month old daughter.

From what I understand, my partner has the right, with the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National", to enter and leave all countries that form part of the EEA (which obviously France does) without the need of a 'Schengen visa' as long as she is travelling with me.

In July 2012, we have the intention of going to France to watch the Tour De France. In order for us to organise our trip without any worries, can you please confirm that my partner will not require the 'Schengen visa' to travel to France and that she has the right to enter/leave France with her "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" so long as she is travelling with me?

As additional information, I can confirm that I have an Italian passport and our daughter has an English passport. Also, we are NOT married and are a de-facto couple (I am not sure if this matters? I tell you this because the Italian Consulate in London has insisted that Italian authorities may ask for a marriage certificate and negate our entry/exit!). Please also confirm the fact that we are NOT married does not restrict our EU rights under EU DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC?

I would appreciate a prompt reply at your earliest convenience so we can finalise our itinerary for this trip.

Best Regards

John


From: TLScontact Date: 2012-05-30 16:16:33
Dear Applicant,


If your British residency card states "Family Member of an EEA national", this family member is not a French or UK citizen, you have official documentation to prove this relationship and you are either travelling together with this person or going to meet them in France, you do not require a visa to travel. However, if you fail to meet any of these criteria, you do require a visa to travel. Please note the the exact words "Family Member of an EEA national" must be written on your residency card and that the quality of simply "being" a family member of an EEA national does not remove the passport holder's requirement to obtain a visa for travel.


Kind regards,

TLScontact Team

From: Me Date: 2012-05-30 16:29:49
Hi,

OK, we meet all that criteria.

But what do you define as "official documentation to prove this relationship"?

We have already proven to the UK Authorities that we are in a genuine relationship etc etc otherwise they would not have issued the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016 to my partner!

Please clarify, what official documentation to prove this relationship would be sufficient?... especially considering we are NOT married and thus don't have a marriage certificate.

Would Utility Bills/Joint Bank statements etc be sufficient?

Thanks in advance

John

Now the French are saying the same as the Italians!!

copy/paste below:

From: Tlscontact <noreply@tlscontact.com>
Date: 31 May 2012 13:44
Subject: Re: [LON message] 1553777, Other
To: John


Dear Applicant

Please be advised if you are not married couple so you can not apply as a Spouse of EU.

The only document you can provide as proof of relationship is your marriage certificate.

This is the Instruction Directly from the Consulate.

Kind Regards

Tlscontact Team

[John G]

The border manual

http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.it06.pdf

Mate, do you have this doc in French?

Now the French are saying the same thing as the Italians!

I think it's absolutely ridiculous! It's paramount to discrimination because we are not married.... We are thinking of testing this by doing a trip to Calais via Ferry and testing the border guards at both ends.

Will update if we do this and outcome.

Thanks

John

[John G]

Hi All,

I have read this thread with interest. I need advice/help!!??

I'll explain our situation briefly. I am a dual Italian/Australian passport holder, my partner is a Colombian national and our daughter (7 months old) is a dual English/Australian passport holder.

My partner has a the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since 2005.

We want to travel to France for the Tour De France and then later in August, to Spain/Italy to visit family.

I have e-mailed the Italians/French and Spanish consulate to make sure it's all OK and I am having issues with the "proof of relationship". Because we are NOT married and in a de-facto relationship the Italians insist she has to get a Visa. (which I think is basically discrimination!) I am waiting for a reply from the French and Spanish.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Copy/paste below of correspondence thus far with the French:

From: Me Date: 2012-05-29 09:22:11
To whom it may concern,

I hope this e-mail finds you well.

I had a question regarding the EEA visa rights for my partner.

My partner is a Colombian national and she has the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since 2005 and now have a beautiful 7 month old daughter.

From what I understand, my partner has the right, with the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National", to enter and leave all countries that form part of the EEA (which obviously France does) without the need of a 'Schengen visa' as long as she is travelling with me.

In July 2012, we have the intention of going to France to watch the Tour De France. In order for us to organise our trip without any worries, can you please confirm that my partner will not require the 'Schengen visa' to travel to France and that she has the right to enter/leave France with her "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" so long as she is travelling with me?

As additional information, I can confirm that I have an Italian passport and our daughter has an English passport. Also, we are NOT married and are a de-facto couple (I am not sure if this matters? I tell you this because the Italian Consulate in London has insisted that Italian authorities may ask for a marriage certificate and negate our entry/exit!). Please also confirm the fact that we are NOT married does not restrict our EU rights under EU DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC?

I would appreciate a prompt reply at your earliest convenience so we can finalise our itinerary for this trip.

Best Regards

John


From: TLScontact Date: 2012-05-30 16:16:33
Dear Applicant,


If your British residency card states "Family Member of an EEA national", this family member is not a French or UK citizen, you have official documentation to prove this relationship and you are either travelling together with this person or going to meet them in France, you do not require a visa to travel. However, if you fail to meet any of these criteria, you do require a visa to travel. Please note the the exact words "Family Member of an EEA national" must be written on your residency card and that the quality of simply "being" a family member of an EEA national does not remove the passport holder's requirement to obtain a visa for travel.


Kind regards,

TLScontact Team

From: Me Date: 2012-05-30 16:29:49
Hi,

OK, we meet all that criteria.

But what do you define as "official documentation to prove this relationship"?

We have already proven to the UK Authorities that we are in a genuine relationship etc etc otherwise they would not have issued the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016 to my partner!

Please clarify, what official documentation to prove this relationship would be sufficient?... especially considering we are NOT married and thus don't have a marriage certificate.

Would Utility Bills/Joint Bank statements etc be sufficient?

Thanks in advance

John

Now the French are saying the same as the Italians!!

copy/paste below:

From: Tlscontact <noreply@tlscontact.com>
Date: 31 May 2012 13:44
Subject: Re: [LON message] 1553777, Other
To: John


Dear Applicant

Please be advised if you are not married couple so you can not apply as a Spouse of EU.

The only document you can provide as proof of relationship is your marriage certificate.

This is the Instruction Directly from the Consulate.

Kind Regards

Tlscontact Team

Can anyone help me draft a cracking reply to above e-mail with relevant links etc to educate the consulate officials!?