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Immigration reforms and future of Tier 1 (PSW)

Archived UK Tier 1 (Post-Study Work) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2

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fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:32 pm

tusso wrote:
Finally, based on the speech he gave today this suggests PSW wont completely go away: "We will consider the options, for example reducing the length of time that graduates can seek skilled work in the UK, in the light of the consultation responses"

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-cent ... ion-reform
This is NO GOOD for me... I am graduating now, I want 2 years. This is a fraud... 1 year- I also want to go to court. They can implement 1 year, but to new people in uni etc.

Some people on this forum are too frightened... We must all go to court and ask for our 2 years if we don't get it. We are not asking for anything special.



Also, here is full response of solicitors to consultation with reasons why it is illegal:

http://www.penningtons.co.uk/Global/New ... ponse.ashx

In order for the consultation process and any decisions arising from it to be lawful,
certain legal principles including the principle of natural justice must be followed and
this is our main area of concern.



Other. Keep a post study work route open.
The Government has not provided any unbiased, accurate and trustworthy evidence
and data that would support such a blanket policy. Post study work is very important
to the UK’s overall ability to attract genuine international students including, but not
limited to, those who come in order to study in the UK’s leading universities and
business schools when they typically have a choice of destinations.
The UK is going to have to become more competitive in order to compete with
emerging markets. To remove the ability to undertake employed and/or self- 9927483-1
employed work after the completion of studies for an international student, which will
prevent important business and business relationships from being developed, is
irrational. This will weaken key future trading links and may impact on future growth.
If T1 (PSW) is closed it is essential that other options are put in place, which will
continue to make the UK a desirable destination for international students and which
will allow for employment and self-employment.
Because there is so little trust that the Government will stabilise Tier 2 (which has
been subject to significant upheaval including the imposition of an unlawful and
lengthy interim cap), we are not of the opinion that a Tier 2 post study work route will
provide international students with the certainty they will need if they are to choose
the UK as a destination for study. If a decision is made to close T1 (PSW) (which
for the reasons we have outlined may be an unlawful decision in itself
) then we
suggest that other Tier 1 and/or Tier 5 options should be created.

Tier 4
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Post by Tier 4 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:54 pm

Well, according to Damian Green 38000 Graduates got unemployed because of PSW. So in short he doesn’t want us to do graduate job, he don’t want us to do un-skilled jobs either. So what on earth he wants us to do get degree and go home? Well he should say that before we came into this country and the day he came into power.
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Tier 4
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Post by Tier 4 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:10 pm

technically speaking, you weren't 'promised' anything. i understand your intent and i am with you that it should be extended to those currently on student visas...but, just to be fair about it, it wasn't a promise. the literature on ukba said the visa was to 'encourage' students to study in the uk. the psw policy notes say if you have the sufficient points then entry clearance will be granted, but entry clearance is just permission to get leave in a certain type of visa scheme...it isnt a promise that you WILL definitely be issued the visa, since just as the uk has the right to grant something with one hand, they have the right to take it away with the other. i think it's a dumb way to make law but im afraid that is the case.
It was not a promise then it was an offer with full temptation and attraction. Or in other words it was a con and fraud.
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Tier 4
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Post by Tier 4 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:11 pm

jlewisunh wrote: technically speaking, you weren't 'promised' anything. i understand your intent and i am with you that it should be extended to those currently on student visas...but, just to be fair about it, it wasn't a promise. the literature on ukba said the visa was to 'encourage' students to study in the uk. the psw policy notes say if you have the sufficient points then entry clearance will be granted, but entry clearance is just permission to get leave in a certain type of visa scheme...it isnt a promise that you WILL definitely be issued the visa, since just as the uk has the right to grant something with one hand, they have the right to take it away with the other. i think it's a dumb way to make law but im afraid that is the case.
It was not a promise then it was an offer with full temptation and attraction. Or in other words it was a con and fraud.
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fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:19 pm

Tier 4 wrote:Well, according to Damian Green 38000 Graduates got unemployed because of PSW. So in short he doesn’t want us to do graduate job, he don’t want us to do un-skilled jobs either. So what on earth he wants us to do get degree and go home? Well he should say that before we came into this country and the day he came into power.
This is another lie! MAC, as experts, claim... "there is no impact to unemplyoment of Uk graduates from these schemes..." They've run econometric models on this. They advised to keep psw and tier 1 as it is.

This consultation is rigged. read the whole Penningtons report. We have a very strong case here, in fact, I think there is little chance of losing...

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:24 pm

jlewisunh wrote: technically speaking, you weren't 'promised' anything. i understand your intent and i am with you that it should be extended to those currently on student visas...but, just to be fair about it, it wasn't a promise. the literature on ukba said the visa was to 'encourage' students to study in the uk. the psw policy notes say if you have the sufficient points then entry clearance will be granted, but entry clearance is just permission to get leave in a certain type of visa scheme...it isnt a promise that you WILL definitely be issued the visa, since just as the uk has the right to grant something with one hand, they have the right to take it away with the other. i think it's a dumb way to make law but im afraid that is the case.
Partially true, yes, but there are wide legal implications... read Penningtons report. They even specify cases, precedents, on which we can crush down this consultation... it will be challengeable.

My advice is to try to get this firm to lead our case, what do you think guys? Don't forget, it's thousands of us, we can win this. That is, if we don't get 2 year TA fairly.

mohan1616
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Post by mohan1616 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:33 am

these Britishers were neither fair nor will be. all are cunning fox.

I did tell that this will happen long time.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year (give required transition-there is no legal liability as well to fight for two year psw) . Some people will accept and some wont. Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

to kill these foxes spread awareness. let no one come to this country anytime in anyway.

Any comments

tusso
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Post by tusso » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:07 pm

[quote="mohan1616"]these Britishers were neither fair nor will be. all are cunning fox.

I did tell that this will happen long time.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year (give required transition-there is no legal liability as well to fight for two year psw) . Some people will accept and some wont. Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

to kill these foxes spread awareness. let no one come to this country anytime in anyway.

Any comments[/quote]


Sorry dude dont agree with ur prophetic comments, we still dnt knw what will happen, and there are negotiations still going on, even If "they divide our interests" as you say for PSW you don't need the whole 38,000 + - of PSW applicants to go to court, you just need a small group of ppl and a good case, and I by what the Penningtons solicitors say, we do have a case, and I bet there will be plenty of ppl interested in going to court in order to get 2 year PSW... They cant really generate that much income from British students since most of them are being subsidised by the government, so they still really need us

HarshaDV
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Post by HarshaDV » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:28 am

I Emailed the following letter to my local MP:

Dear XXXX MP,

I am a Masters Student at The London School of Economics due to graduate in July 2011. I am an international student from India.

Recently the UKBA launched a consultation (which ended midnight 31st January 2011) in regards to Tier 4 (General) and Tier 1(Post Study Worker) visas. The government and UKBA are proposing for tighter rules in obtaining student visas which also may see the closure of the Tier 1 (Post Study Worker) route.

Whilst the tightening of the student visa system is a fair argument to reduce the number of visa abusers there are a few issues I would like to point out that puts non-EU international students already in the UK at a losing end:

* The UKBA is proposing for students to reapply from their home country in regards to progression of their studies i.e. an undergraduate student who is already in the UK needs to go back to his/her home country to reapply for a visa should they want to continue a PhD/master's degree. I believe many of us think this is a very inefficient and bureaucratic process. International students are already paying high tuition fees. None of us are state-dependent. Most of us either come on scholarships or family funds to finance our stay and studies in the UK. I think it is very unfair for us to 'pack and leave' and then return after getting approval for a new visa when we currently have the choice of making an in-country application from within the UK. The integrity of the system is maintained as in the first instance, we are only able to apply for a new visa when we hold unconditional offers from education providers. Issues like logistics and housing will arise unnecessarily especially on the costs involved. We urge that the UKBA to find alternative mechanisms to address this issue.

* The UKBA and the Government are planning to scrap the Tier 1 (Post Study Worker) visa. Whilst we understand it is their prerogative in abolishing any visa category, we should urge them to allow for transitional arrangements for students already on UK education courses before fully enforcing the abolishment. Most international students in the UK are often lured with these opportunities by UK universities in attracting them pursue for a course here. The PSW visa has always been used as a marketing tool and having spoken to my fellow international students, most agree this is one of the reasons why they chose the UK in contrast to other countries to further their studies. The abrupt abolishment of this visa will seem to have short-changed students already in their studies in the UK as it looks like the UKBA changed the rules in the middle of the game. Therefore, whilst we understand the government's concerns in reducing net migration, the international students' community is urging for a decent transitional arrangement by allowing for the Tier 1 (Post Study Worker) to be continued for those who qualify for it and are already currently undertaking UK studies. The abolishment of this visa category should only, in all fairness, be applied to new students (those whom have not commenced their courses after the official announcement) as they still have the chance to change their minds on their education pathway in light with this recent development.

The full changes and reforms of both the Tier 4 and Tier 1 visas can be obtained at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Among bodies who have already expressed their dissatisfaction and concerns include the Russell Group and Universities UK (which includes Universities Scotland). They have released press statements in regards to this.

The Government needs to realize that it should focus on matters on enforcement to curb illegal immigrants than penalizing genuine temporary residents such as those in the Tier 4 (General) and Tier 1 (Post Study Worker) categories which contribute significantly to the UK economy. Visa holders from these categories do not contribute to the UK’s permanent migration nor put pressure to public funds as we do not have access to them in the first place. Furthermore, these visas do not contribute to an Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) eligibility which does not jeopardise the UK’s net migration figures. We think it is wrong for holders of these visa categories to be counted contributing to net migration to the UK as we are just temporary residents who will leave at the end of our visa approval period.

I strongly urge that at least students in the UK’s best universities of the likes of London School of Economics, Oxford, Cambridge (perhaps these are the best in the world), who already have a very busy academic year should be treated with some degree of respect. The new Coalition on whom we business management students and the general corporate sector, had high hopes to bring the UK economy out of recession, has been disappointing and is, perhaps only adding to the turmoil.

Studying overseas requires a significant amount of financial Investment and time, just when we are at the best stage of our careers. A major motivation for me to spend 35000 pounds for a one year study in the UK was a combination of the world class education I receive at the London School of Economics and later on an invaluable 2 year work experience that I could put on my Resume under the PSW Visa. And now, if all of a sudden, we are deprived of this opportunity, this would perhaps be the most inhuman act by the coalition.

For your kind attention, there have been changes made before, but all of them had transitional arrangements. The then effected had to put in considerable amount of time and energy to appeal the Government’s ruling and to win the transitional arrangements. Very famous judgment is in the case of Pankina. Very strong precedent is MBA provision HSMP.

At the midst of our academic year, this is perhaps not how we expected the UK to welcome us. In all fairness, I would like to bring to your kind notice that the current Coalition should have a moral obligation to provide Long and fair transitional period for all students who are now eligible for PSW after their current course.

I personally know hundreds of people in the West Ham area residing illegally, just to complete 14 years of stay in the UK and apply for settlement. Instead of focusing on them, the UK Government wants to restrict the people that it needs the most, just at a time when it needs them the most.

I also admit that there are more qualified individuals in the Coalition to talk of the economy. But, as a qualified economic analyst, I really am very disappointed to see the new Coalition keen on improving its own manifest rather than deciding on what is best for the economy. True, but all we are asking for are transitional arrangements which state that students enrolled on Graduate level courses before the announcement of abolishment/ amendments to the PSW visa should be immune to such changes.

Being a resident in the West Ham area, I humbly request you to raise this matter among your colleagues in the Labour party and to raise this matter in Parliament
Kindly excuse me if I used any strong words, but I’m pretty sure that a person of your caliber, who has done so much for the West Ham constituents, over the last decade would understand the genuine frustration of students who come here to boost their career; only to find that it has in effect been a negative factor for them.
I greatly appreciate your effort in regards to the matter.


Thank you.

Yours sincerely,
XXXX


Recieved quite a satisfying reply today:


Dear Harsha,

Thank you for your E Mail.

As You should be aware, the matter is currently under investigation and frankly, though I have some insights, there is a strict Parliamentary convention in the House of Commons not to disclose elimentary affairs before being made public.

We will raise the issue in the Parliament and it is highly unlikely that any changes will come without transitional arrangements. The nature and degree of these arrangements is surely a subject of anxiety for you; but in the mean time, may I suggest you to concentrate on your studies and to do well with your careers.

Best of Luck.

XXXX

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Post by tall_funky » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:46 pm

Encouraging it is indeed Harsha!

I do agree with your MP and I think in all its fairness, we will get some kind of TA.
However, if we don’t get 2 years PSW as promised to us then we must stand up against this unfairness and based on all the legal advises we have till date, we will WIN hands down.

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:44 pm

tall_funky wrote:Encouraging it is indeed Harsha!

I do agree with your MP and I think in all its fairness, we will get some kind of TA.
However, if we don’t get 2 years PSW as promised to us then we must stand up against this unfairness and based on all the legal advises we have till date, we will WIN hands down.
I think so. The evidence, if I can say, in our cause, are piling. I am not sure they would want to go to court and lose. it would just exhaust both sides financially and in time.

Most likely we are off the hook. To future students, though, I'd say think twice before coming here. I think for EU students this will still be a very good destination, but otherwise...

In any other case, we need to go to court. I fear changes to qualify also. Fi, I can't go to masters now, maybe someone w masters can't go to Phd etc. Conditions for ALL need to stay the same, UG, PG, Phd, whatever. Say they just switch it to Phd etc. we have to fight.

jlewisunh
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Post by jlewisunh » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:25 pm

well, it does seem especially likely now that we will get some kind of TA but we (recent grads and current students, especially seniors) NEED to have the full 2 years. It is only just.

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:06 pm

jlewisunh wrote:well, it does seem especially likely now that we will get some kind of TA but we (recent grads and current students, especially seniors) NEED to have the full 2 years. It is only just.
Yes, I agree. We can challenge them on that also... if need be. We need 2 years, not a stripped down visa.

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Post by tusso » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:03 pm

Has Anyone seen the Home affairs committee investigations about the proposed visa policy? this is quite good and shows that there are ppl defending int students and looks like damian green lacks lots of hard data and mps can see it!

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Post by tall_funky » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:51 pm

Yes tusso, I've been following but I'm disappointed as nothing important came out from Mr. Green's head.

I think we have to wait till mid-march for any news on the proposals and they will be watered down I guess.

tusso
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Post by tusso » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:54 pm

tall_funky wrote:Yes tusso, I've been following but I'm disappointed as nothing important came out from Mr. Green's head.

I think we have to wait till mid-march for any news on the proposals and they will be watered down I guess.
Yeah but on the bright side the mps did argue more on the pro side of PSW and other issues in student Visas... also damian green said that psw was one of the issues that came out a lot in the consultation and I bet a high majority did not express negativity towards psw... You are right, its time to wait but things dont look as bad as initially thought, as u say, lets wait and see

tall_funky
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Post by tall_funky » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:31 pm

tusso wrote:
tall_funky wrote:Yes tusso, I've been following but I'm disappointed as nothing important came out from Mr. Green's head.

I think we have to wait till mid-march for any news on the proposals and they will be watered down I guess.
Yeah but on the bright side the mps did argue more on the pro side of PSW and other issues in student Visas... also damian green said that psw was one of the issues that came out a lot in the consultation and I bet a high majority did not express negativity towards psw... You are right, its time to wait but things dont look as bad as initially thought, as u say, lets wait and see
I agree with you and almost all of the academics/experts called in to give evidence did resonate with the views expressed in this forum.

There was not a single person including Mr. Andrew Green indicating this is the right way to decrease immigrant numbers, some even questioned the very rationale of including students into this calculation of numbers.
UKBA has tried to do data manipulation but I think they have failed BIG time.

All in all, I think we will get some sort of TA and PSW will survive in some form or the other.

jlewisunh
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Post by jlewisunh » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:04 pm

im sure we'll get TA. i just hope the new proposals aren't going to be set before april. im applying in a little over one month and i WANT my 2 years. not 1.

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:26 pm

jlewisunh wrote:im sure we'll get TA. i just hope the new proposals aren't going to be set before april. im applying in a little over one month and i WANT my 2 years. not 1.
If there is TA, it will should the current valid rules(2 years). If the visa is stripped to 1 year for us, it's not a ta... it's a trick. We can't allow that.

In any case, if you apply before april, i'm 100% sure you're safe.

Again, do all you want to new students... cheated, i won't be esp after cashing out 36k. It is court then...

cruxifixo
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Post by cruxifixo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:32 pm

tall_funky wrote:
tusso wrote:
tall_funky wrote:Yes tusso, I've been following but I'm disappointed as nothing important came out from Mr. Green's head.

I think we have to wait till mid-march for any news on the proposals and they will be watered down I guess.
Yeah but on the bright side the mps did argue more on the pro side of PSW and other issues in student Visas... also damian green said that psw was one of the issues that came out a lot in the consultation and I bet a high majority did not express negativity towards psw... You are right, its time to wait but things dont look as bad as initially thought, as u say, lets wait and see
I agree with you and almost all of the academics/experts called in to give evidence did resonate with the views expressed in this forum.

There was not a single person including Mr. Andrew Green indicating this is the right way to decrease immigrant numbers, some even questioned the very rationale of including students into this calculation of numbers.
UKBA has tried to do data manipulation but I think they have failed BIG time.
Where you getting the details from Pls?

tall_funky
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Post by tall_funky » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:02 pm

cruxifixo wrote:
tall_funky wrote:
tusso wrote:
tall_funky wrote:Yes tusso, I've been following but I'm disappointed as nothing important came out from Mr. Green's head.

I think we have to wait till mid-march for any news on the proposals and they will be watered down I guess.
Yeah but on the bright side the mps did argue more on the pro side of PSW and other issues in student Visas... also damian green said that psw was one of the issues that came out a lot in the consultation and I bet a high majority did not express negativity towards psw... You are right, its time to wait but things dont look as bad as initially thought, as u say, lets wait and see
I agree with you and almost all of the academics/experts called in to give evidence did resonate with the views expressed in this forum.

There was not a single person including Mr. Andrew Green indicating this is the right way to decrease immigrant numbers, some even questioned the very rationale of including students into this calculation of numbers.
UKBA has tried to do data manipulation but I think they have failed BIG time.
Where you getting the details from Pls?
http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... committee/

tusso
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Post by tusso » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:33 pm

jlewisunh wrote:kind of disappointing. mr porter and mr scott said they'd be willing to reduce it to one year. that isnt looking out for international students' rights!!!

They also said that less than 2 years was pointless because companies didnt wanna hire people just for 1 year

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:12 pm

tusso wrote:
jlewisunh wrote:kind of disappointing. mr porter and mr scott said they'd be willing to reduce it to one year. that isnt looking out for international students' rights!!!

They also said that less than 2 years was pointless because companies didnt wanna hire people just for 1 year
That's true, it's pointless... Why is everyone concerned only with masters and phds? What about us undergrads, been here for 3 years, spent even more money?
Are we supposed to be shortchanged now?

And even if they reduce it, they may do so for new students, not us now...

Just to add, there has been misuse of psw from illegal/fake colleges, this needs to be sorted... these people are more likely to be at tesco.

We just have to see. I fear they might change eligibility also. Should they switch it to a higher degree, I am scr... no more money for further degrees here.

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:51 pm

jlewisunh wrote:HAHA this is so annoying! the very end of the meeting, they ask Green if there will be an announcement on the 16th of march...that is the DAY I AM APPLYING !!! and of course he wouldnt answer...he said there is no firm date set but he did not say no announcement would come on march 16th. and the other one kept saying 'ok so no announcement on march 16th' and green kept saying no firm date is set blah. man the timing couldnt be any worse for my application.
So, basically, you announce at end of march, and rules start in like 1 week or so? That's crap... tier one cancellation was known months ahead. This can't be. We need to be given time.

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Post by luckylondon » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:05 pm

well frnds i thought to comment on 500th post.

lets wait and see for the outcomes....
Hopefully PSW for 2yrs shuld be kept maintain without any kind of reduction in time period...otherwise wee need to be united and fight for our justice.

new policies to new students, no to those who are alrdy on Boat...

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