Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI)

[mahil_2000]

The main thing is, you have to admit to doing it before hand and not lie and simply apply. The Indian post/mission does the preliminary enquiry about the person. Then it is forwarded to MHA, New Delhi, for post verification by security agencies to see if you lied about being convicted etc.

You are only charged by a crime in India if you are convicted. So, you don't need to declare officially that you broke the law. However, write a letter saying that you did it. That should be sufficient to prove that you haven't hid anything from the authorities.

You are not charged anything until you are arrested and a judge/police issues the penalty. But just admit to what you did before hand. If you don't, you could be blacklisted from entry into India because you have suppressed information.

[mahil_2000]

Just wanted to confirm something:

After holding OCI card for 5 years, live in India for 1 year. You can regain Indian passport.

But wouldn't this mean you would have to relinquish British nationality right? But would you still be allowed to visit the UK on the Indian passport by applying for ILR or ROA or something along those lines?

[vin123]

mahil_2000,

I made sure I read your prior posts before posting this 'most appropriate' reply to you.

After holding OCI card for 5 years, live in India for 1 year. You can regain Indian passport.
But wouldn't this mean you would have to relinquish British nationality right? But would you still be allowed to visit the UK on the Indian passport by applying for ILR or ROA or something along those lines?

If such a situation is applicable to you, I would advice make sure you vist the British High Commission to 'avoid disappointment' prior to your travel. Do not forget to take copies of 'email communications' with you that you should definitely be having.

Also, I advice you with care that, while visiting, do not attempt to hide your current UK passport inside your undergarments as they are most likely to be using X-ray & infra-red scanning technology, which in turn may damage other things

This is future - so bear in mind while standing at the counter, MI5 slueths would have already spotted these 'clever discussions' made by you on immigrationboard's Feb'07 archives .

oh finally, good luck with your plans.

[mahil_2000]

mahil_2000,

I made sure I read your prior posts before posting this intentional reply to you.

After holding OCI card for 5 years, live in India for 1 year. You can regain Indian passport.
But wouldn't this mean you would have to relinquish British nationality right? But would you still be allowed to visit the UK on the Indian passport by applying for ILR or ROA or something along those lines?

If such a situation is applicable to you, I would advice make sure you vist the British High Commission to 'avoid disappointment' prior to your travel. Do not forget to take copies of 'email communications' with you that you should definitely be having.

Thanks. The Indian law says, you can only be Indian and cannot be another national (i.e no real dual citizen), which is what the problem is. When regaining Indian passport later(I never said I was going to do it, but I was asking this on behalf of people planning to retire in India in the future), the indians would say you have to relinquish the British nationality. I was wondering if the people would receive a life long UK visa(like ILR or ROA sticker). Yes, I would need to check up with the High commission.

Also, I advice you with care that, while visiting, do not attempt to hide your current UK passport inside your undergarments as they are most likely to be using X-ray & infra-red scanning technology, which in turn may damage other things

Haha , one step ahead of you already. CISF(if you know who they are) have stopped using the body scanners(the body x-ray ones) because it is too revealing. And you don't get checked once you land in India (at least I have never been checked). BTW I don't plan on doing it anyway because you are likely to be caught while departing India.

This is future - so bear in mind while standing at the counter, MI5 slueths would have already spotted these 'clever discussions' made by you on immigrationboard's Feb'07 archives .

Which part is clever? I have not said anything illegal here at all (only illegal according to Indian law). Please remind me which part was too "clever" . And thanks for the advice.

oh finally, good luck with your plans.

Thanks.

[vin123]

Which part is clever? I have not said anything illegal here at all (only illegal according to Indian law). Please remind me which part was too "clever" . And thanks for the advice

Be it legal or illegal, furnishing twists by misinterpreting rules in your own ways and most awkwardly, seeking public endorsement to your ideas by discussing here is not considered something ideal and of course will spoil the sole purpose of this board.

It appears like some of your ideas are may be born out of ignorance & immaturity or stupidity so I can suggest some further reading if you are interested.

E.g : asking ROA after naturalisation is like you going to British High Commision in India and having the following conversation.

Mahil : Sir, I have a work permit & visa, which will allow me to live and work in the UK, right ?

BHC : Yes, of course. as you may please.

Mahil : Sir, I would also like to tour places while working in UK.

BHC : Of course you are free to while your visa is valid.

Mahil : Sir, but I have received an email which says all Indian nationals wishing to tour UK must have a tourist visa, so I would like to apply for a tourist visa ? Sir, could you please grand me a tourist visa to tour places as per the UK tourist visa rules ? The tourist visa rule says that ...this ............................... (goes on )

BHC : <found asleep but issues a tourist visa>

After 6 months, Mahil writes to embassy via EMAIL
Sir, my tourist visa was valid only for 6 months but I went on touring some other places could you please endorse it, is it ILLEGAL, do I need legal backings, please advice.

[mahil_2000]

Be it legal or illegal, furnishing twists by misinterpreting rules in your own ways and most awkwardly, seeking public endorsement to your ideas by discussing here is not considered something ideal and of course will spoil the sole purpose of this board.

I am guessing you must be talking about the OCI idea. May I ask your nationality?

It appears like some of your ideas are may be born out of ignorance & immaturity or stupidity so I can suggest some further reading if you are interested.

Please give me the further reading and refrain from issuing personal attacks.

This is future - so bear in mind while standing at the counter, MI5 slueths would have already spotted these 'clever discussions' made by you on immigrationboard's Feb'07 archives .

I am guessing you must have worked for them.

E.g : asking ROA after naturalisation is like you going to British High Commision in India and having the following conversation.

Lol. I am not sure you understood why I asked that question. So are you telling me it is okay, for retired people once relinquished their nationality to visit the country of relinquished nationality because they are naturalised there? Do you understand why people need ROA stamps in the first place?

Please make your point clearly.

[mhunjn]

Hello Mahil_2000

Reading your previous posts I can see why you have made certain comments and assertions. You clearly know that certain things you have mentioned are illegal, but considering the Indian politics and law, there is always a way out. You have to be really unlucky to get stuck!

Most of the people here, mainly newly naturalised UK citizens talk the language of law and deter people from doing anything that could be construed illegal. This in my opinion is right, and i am sure, you will agree as well.

However, this doesn't over-ride the fact that thousands, if not more, people do this regularly either knowingly or out of misinformation.

One classic case is of owning agricultural property in india.

There are hundreds of people in UK, in US and Canada who are no longer Indian citizens, but still own agricultural property and financial interests in India. In fact they are actually helped by the NRI sabha ( a 'legal' govt body for those who don't know)in acquisition of this property. So where does the RBI & MEA stand on this?... And this not a new thing... it's been carrying on for decades.
I have known people to approach courts in India when their property was occupied by force and they have actually been helped by the legal system in India to get it back... even though they were now classified as 'foreign nationals'.

Ofcourse the above is only true for Indians who have settled abroad, but still want to keep contacts in places where they grew up and still have family.

Maybe you have had similar experience through acquaintance?... or through personal situation.

[mahil_2000]

hey,

Reading your previous posts I can see why you have made certain comments and assertions. You clearly know that certain things you have mentioned are illegal, but considering the Indian politics and law, there is always a way out. You have to be really unlucky to get stuck!

Indeed.

Most of the people here, mainly newly naturalised UK citizens talk the language of law and deter people from doing anything that could be construed illegal. This in my opinion is right, and i am sure, you will agree as well.

Yes, agreed, I infact said, if you don't plan on going back to India soon for govt post or are from an Insurgency hit state, then take OCI.

Ofcourse the above is only true for Indians who have settled abroad, but still want to keep contacts in places where they grew up and still have family.

Well, if most of people's family is in India it is natural that people would want to keep their indian passport. Like relatives might say, buy this land or that land (you know how the story goes back home).

Some retired folks would want to keep Indian passport as they would want to retire in India, i.e buy house, settle in their village etc and keep a foreign passport to come stay in the UK to see grand children etc.

It is a shame that GOI has come up with this OCI scheme instead of a full dual nationality. I can see why in a security perspective that they have done this though.

[Times]

Hello All,

I was trying to find answer to my question on the OCI Sticky but it spans across so many pages, with some totally irrelavent topic, i lost sight and instead thought i'll ask it seperately.

Basically I need to apply for OCI with my family ( 2 adult & 1 child).
I went to the High commission in london but unfortunately only the first 15 applicants are allowed so i missed on the token.

When inquirying about the process of applying i was told to go to the http://www.mha.nic.in/oci/oci-main.htm website and apply online and once i receive the confirmation to come back with the documents to the high comm in london. Now i am slightly confused, the instructions for filling the Part A needs to be done online but it says to submit photos and documents. How can i do that online.

Can someone please provide a simple guide for applying for an OCI with family.

Thanks,
Times

[mahil_2000]

You have to fill in the application online. Take 2 print outs. And send BOTH to the high commission with the necessary documents. The whole process should take less than 30 days. I don't think you need to send the foreign passport first. Then check online for status. Once the documents are received at the high commission then, I think you send the foreign passport.

Note down the registration number.

[Times]

Thanks for replying!

One quick question do i have to fill in part A three times each (for myself , wife and daughter) or just one per family?

[mahil_2000]

2) A maximum of four (4) applicants consisting of spouses and at most
two minor children may apply in one application form.

7) Part A has to be filled for each applicant of the family and Part B is
common for all applicants of the family.

http://mha.gov.in/oci/Instructions.pdf

[abc009]

please anyone could tell the process ...how to apply for OCI... i have the british passport now...do i need to cancel my indian passport first and then need to apply for it...or else can i personally go to home office(india).. cancel the indian passport and the same day can i apply for the OCI... please help me .....

[mahil_2000]

You can register online:

https://passport.gov.in/oci/OnlineOCIRegistrationG.jsp

Follow the instructions.

You can get the passport cancelled with the application. Just have a covering letter. Send a stamped envelope. They only use Registered post. So make sure you pay for it.

[psun]

Anyone provide me the timeline for the OCI.

[jaihind]

mahil_2000 said:

Well, if most of people's family is in India it is natural that people would want to keep their indian passport. Like relatives might say, buy this land or that land (you know how the story goes back home).

Some retired folks would want to keep Indian passport as they would want to retire in India, i.e buy house, settle in their village etc and keep a foreign passport to come stay in the UK to see grand children etc.

It is a shame that GOI has come up with this OCI scheme instead of a full dual nationality. I can see why in a security perspective that they have done this though.

Sorry mate, the Right of Abode (ROA) does not exist anymore for anyone holding a UK passport. So make up your mind and tell your relatives to do the same: that they either have a UK passport + OCI sticker OR UK passport + PIO card OR a Indian passport + valid UK visa (e.g.: ILR sticker or Visa viginette for a select category). No 'ifs' & 'ands' combinations are possible.

Evidently the IND people may have gathered that there is a gaping loophole with the ROA and some with twisted minds may exploit it for a lot of illegal travel activities that some Indians are no strangers to. So this loophole has now been shut once and for all. Maybe your past comments could have helped

read: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/rightofabode

I hope this brings to an end all the misunderstanding and confusion caused by advising people to have their cake and eat it too.

[mahil_2000]

Sorry mate, the Right of Abode (ROA) does not exist anymore for anyone holding a UK passport. So make up your mind and tell your relatives to do the same: that they either have a UK passport + OCI sticker OR UK passport + PIO card OR a Indian passport + valid UK visa (e.g.: ILR sticker or Visa viginette for a select category). No 'ifs' & 'ands' combinations are possible.

Evidently the IND people may have gathered that there is a gaping loophole with the ROA and some with twisted minds may exploit it for a lot of illegal travel activities that some Indians are no strangers to. So this loophole has now been shut once and for all. Maybe your past comments could have helped

read: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/rightofabode

I hope this brings to an end all the misunderstanding and confusion caused by advising people to have their cake and eat it too.

Thanks for your message. My comments came well after the ROA rules had changed (changed in december).

Besides ROA doesn't mean anything to anyone else apart from UK. I am simply trying to keep my indian passport. In fact I was browsing through wikipedia and it was just saying that there are people who reside in restricted areas who are having trouble with OCI as they require a permit each time.

Oh and btw, someone on this forum has already travelled on an ILR after naturalisation and after having applied for British passport. So how exactly were people using 2nd nationality passport with ROA for illegal travel?(not asking in offending manner)

[mr_pankaj]

Hello Friends,

I got my British citizenship by naturalisation in April 2006.
My wife holds a ILR(PR) status.

Question: We had a son few weeks back, who will be a British Citizen as I understand.
Now, once I have recieved his British Passport - can I also apply for a OCI for him ? (I have OCI on my British Passport) ?

What all documents would I need to provide other than his British Passport, UK Full Birth Certificate, my British Passport, Photographs, Fees etc.

Is there anything else do I need to worry/care about ?

many thanks

[mahil_2000]

Details about OCI:
http://hcilondon.net/Overseas-Indian-Ci ... exnew.html

Application form:
https://passport.gov.in/oci/OnlineOCIRegistrationG.jsp
Instructions for filling in the form:
http://www.mha.nic.in/oci/Instructions.pdf

You might want to browse through the High commission website above, as it talks about specific laws on citizenship of new borns.

[jaihind]

mahil_2000 said:

Oh and btw, someone on this forum has already travelled on an ILR after naturalisation and after having applied for British passport. So how exactly were people using 2nd nationality passport with ROA for illegal travel?(not asking in offending manner)

There are probably several ways this can be done, two of which the authorities haven't yet discovered or have not found a solution to; are as described below:

1. If they are women (and if later separated / divorced) , they still use their married surname on the Indian passport and keep their new suname (probably their original one) on the UK one. This is fraud, but neither the UK authorities nor the Indian ones have figured out a way of tracking this fraud. That's why I'm in favour of bio-metrics, so there is only one identity per person.
2. If one has an ILR on any passport it is not a requirement to have a ROA as well. One can travel in and out of the UK freely even with an ILR. As the UK authorities still do not cancel the ILR sticker after a person receives a UK passport which I think is a major flaw, this is opened to wide abuse.

Either way a person holding a UK and Indian passport is fraud anyway you look at it and this could attract severe penalties given the recent climate of suspicion at airports (particularly on asian looking people). Immigration matters are taken extremely seriously nowadays both in the UK and in India. Hence it advisable to be clean because if caught, the alternative is dire.

Several Indians are no strangers to fraud and deciet. The recent example of the Gujarat politician caught at Delhi airport trying to smuggle out a woman is ample proof of how endemic this phenomenon is.

No rule or set of rules can fully encompass the spirit of what they are designed to achieve. All we can do is coerce people to play by the rules and assist in the improving image of India and for Indians in the diaspora who work extremely hard to constantly maintain this ever improving image. It only takes one incident for the media to highlight the issue of immigration fraud and everyone suffers as a consequence.

[mahil_2000]

1. If they are women (and if later separated / divorced) , they still use their married surname on the Indian passport and keep their new suname (probably their original one) on the UK one. This is fraud, but neither the UK authorities nor the Indian ones have figured out a way of tracking this fraud. That's why I'm in favour of bio-metrics, so there is only one identity per person.

The british authorities would be aware because, when you apply for a british passport you have to submit your passport details. Maybe after they renew the indian passport, it would become a problem. Don't forget if the person is a british citizen, they have a right to enter the UK, regardless of your second nationality.

2. If one has an ILR on any passport it is not a requirement to have a ROA as well. One can travel in and out of the UK freely even with an ILR. As the UK authorities still do not cancel the ILR sticker after a person receives a UK passport which I think is a major flaw, this is opened to wide abuse.

I don't understand how an abuse is going to occur...If you are british, you are allowed to use your 2nd nationality passport aswell. Dual nationality is legal in the UK. UK government has not made it compulsory to enter the UK with the british passport.

Either way a person holding a UK and Indian passport is fraud anyway you look at it and this could attract severe penalties given the recent climate of suspicion at airports (particularly on asian looking people). Immigration matters are taken extremely seriously nowadays both in the UK and in India. Hence it advisable to be clean because if caught, the alternative is dire.

It is only illegal in India, not in the UK. Are you an embassy worker or something, have there been cases where foreign nationals have been caught entering India with Indian passport while possessing a foreign nationality?

Several Indians are no strangers to fraud and deciet. The recent example of the Gujarat politician caught at Delhi airport trying to smuggle out a woman is ample proof of how endemic this phenomenon is.

The number caught in comparison is far lower than the number of law abiding Indians, so I wouldn't exaggerate that point.

[abc009]

PLEASE ANY ONE CAN HELP ME.......PLEASE HELP ME........
its been one month that i applyed for OCI by post. i am checking it online, it says under process from day one. the main doubt i have is if there is any problem processing my application then how will i know? will they let me know by letter or can i find out by online status checking? i am so confused.....

[mahil_2000]

HCI London website says at this point it is taking around 8 to 12 weeks to get the OCI cards. For my bro it took around 6 weeks.

[Friend]

PLEASE ANY ONE CAN HELP ME.......PLEASE HELP ME........
its been one month that i applyed for OCI by post. i am checking it online, it says under process from day one. the main doubt i have is if there is any problem processing my application then how will i know? will they let me know by letter or can i find out by online status checking? i am so confused.....

For my friend

The date of acknowledgement at HCI London- 22 march 2007

Date granted 1 May 2007

[abc009]

For my friend

The date of acknowledgement at HCI London- 22 march 2007

Date granted 1 May 2007

-- Thankyou for your quick reply...hope i too will get within 5 weeks