5 years for ILR rule implemented

[aj77]

Easylife4me wrote

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... ion_1.html

this is released on 31st. talking about 4 years for WP holders and 5 years for HSMP

.
News section of HO website is also being updated now.

[a11]

Hi guys, I feel I have some issues with the style and grammar of the proposed petition. Should all of them contain exactly the same text?
If not, I would feel much more comfortable with something like the following:

To Whom It May Concern,

I hereby declare my objection to the recent change in immigration rules (HC974) concerning the extension of the qualifying period for indefinite leave to remain in the UK from four to five years that was put forward by the Rt Hon Charles Clarke MP to take effect on the 3rd of April 2006. I oppose to the retroactive effect that this change has on the work permit and HSMP visa holders who had already been staying in the UK at the time of the new rules’ implementation.

I believe that the way the aforementioned change was implemented has a strongly negative impact on the existing employment-related category visa holders, affecting their and their families’ future as well as making them feel insecure in the country where they chose to live and work. Moreover, given that the issue of employment-related visa categories is merit-based, I believe that the retroactive nature of the change will have a negative impact on UK's economy as a whole.

Signature

[tobiashomer]

In my communications with my MP I have emphasised that work-related permit holders have a choice (certainly true for HSMP) and could have chosen to go elsewhere. As business people the community as a whole is very disappointed that what in civil life would be a contract, is not being honoured by the Government. I am sure that I am not the only such person who would advise people contemplating a work-related move here to think twice, as the undertakinigs about post-entry status made by the Home Office in the published material advertising the schemes are not respected.

I think that it will be good if there is some variety in the texts submitted.

Tobiashomer

[morerightsformigrants]

hey guys something interesting happen today:

the COA rules have been suspended for marriages. If the Home Office decides not to appeal against this ruling, I guess the Home Office will restrict FLR(M) applications to post only so that they can scrutinise such applications better to weed out shams.

This ruling shows that the Home Office is not always right and should be used as ammo in the challenge against the retrospective application of the 5 year ILR rule for employment related categories.


there's hope

[a11]

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetai ... ESSION=875

A Labour MP opened an Early Day Motion to protest against the immigration rules' change.

What is an EDM?
An Early Day Motion (EDM) is essentially a way for Members of Parliament (MPs) to draw attention to an issue and build support for it. Initially an MP will table a motion by writing a statement either for or against a particular issue, this is then put on the Parliamentary record as an EDM. Subsequently, MPs can canvass fellow MPs to sign and support it and can also publicise it to local or national press. The EDM therefore works as a kind of petition that MPs can sign up to in order to show their support for a particular issue or subject. Whilst EDMs are not expected to be debated on the floor of the House, they can attract a great deal of publicity to a particular issue, both within Parliament and, if reported by the National or Regional Press, amongst the general public. You should ask your MP to show his or her support for our aims by signing this EDM.

Now we should all write letters to our MPs asking them to support EDM 1912. Once the EDM is opened, all they should do is put their signatures on. We've only got about a month until the change becomes a law, so let's hurry up...

[tobiashomer]

Very interesting! but perhaps a long shot, given that the other EDM arguing for humane treatment of retired greyhounds has 103 signatures and is not much older than the one about humane treatment of Highly Skilled Migrants and other work-related categories, the latter having garnered only the signature of its author in a fortnight...

[a11]

oh well you see the retired greyhounds are already permanent residents in the UK.... ))

[tobiashomer]

also one has to worry about the sponsor: well-meaning as he may be, he surely failed to earn credibility by not giving any reason why the Changes should be rejected. And there are so many good reasons! maybe some interested party in his constituency should help him a little.

[supertiger]

I was trying to persuade some organisations or individuals to take the leadership of the compaign but have realised how difficult it is - many of you may have the some experience. Under this circumstance, I think we might have to work in a relatively looser and decentralised environment but an overall strategy and timeline might still be needed to keep us united and work better:

Time flies it is nearly Easter now. Most of us have had initial contacts with our MPs so this month is indeed a negotiation stage, some are preparing lobby... we can hope for the best but HO is never been easy. If they can learn a lesson from the marriage license case, it will be really wise for them to resolve this before going to court - if they lose again their future policies may become very difficult... so this month we should try our best to approach as many MPs as we can and forward our voices to HO and the parliament...

If no clear result by beginning of May, legal actions need to be taken. as long as we win a case in high court at least the rule will be suspended. Does anyone know how long the marriage license case take from the submission to the final rule?

[olisun]

If no clear result by beginning of May, legal actions need to be taken. as long as we win a case in high court at least the rule will be suspended.

And what will be agenda / main point for taking a Legal action against the HO ?

[supertiger]

Have to listen to some legal advice for best agenda, also not sure if better to have individual case or joint ones... what i mean is we need to parepare that while mainly doing negotiation at this stage... also i think could be very useful if we can gain any support from high profile investers or joint ventures at this period, this rule may not directly affect them at the moment but it may have ripple effects and the political uncertainty can obviously influence economic decisions... The retrospectiveness in the immigration policy today may also happen elsewhere, in the name of "for the interest of the Brits" but whether it is really good and is it sustainable? It is a question they can ask as well...

[Hidden dragon]

Supertiger and all,

After reviewing the discussion on this forum and those on the lkcn.net (a Chinese language based site on this issue), I feel there seems to be a need for a coherent strategy. If we do not try to organise a good campaign maybe to a certain degree we don't deserve PR. So, I am up to the challenge. It is about dignity and our value, not anything else.

A few avenues should be explored:
(1) Media attention;
(2) Lobbying through political system;
(3) Through court action;
(4) Democratic approach: demonstration etc;
(5) and others.

But which is more important and therefore should be prioritised? How to coordinate between different ideas? How do we pan the thing out?

Although it has been found difficult, I still think we need to work closely. Possibly to form an informal group between a few activists (count me in). This is because we have limited time and resource; we should have a clear and common agenda and work together towards it. (Easy said than done, I know, but there is no other way, don't you agree?)

We need to joint force with people from various countries. I feel an initial meeting with people from different nations could be a first step towards this end.

Then we need to agree on a goal (as olisun's pointed out). Personally I think our goal should be to make the change of the rule NOT retrospective! Rational: (1) People like us has made long term plans and scarified other development opportunities, and some even made commercial decisions that involves risks based on the past rule (which created the impression that 4-year is sufficient). (2) The sudden change means lost of public confidence in the political and business environment, lost of potential business and clients, unstable future, agony in families and depression among legitimate immigrants. (3) It is contradicting to winning minds and hearts in the current global situation. It gives extremists excuses of committing crimes and inciting hatred. (4) The change benefits no body and penalises hard working, law abiding and tax paying immigrants. (5) It damages the reputation of this government and makes the country less attractive to skilled workers and foreign investments. (6) It damages the economy and contradicts the Government's own initiative on attracting retaining skilled people to this country. (7) Consultation ignored!

After that, we need to develop a clear strategy and work out an implementation plan, and run the project to our best. Each activist should be responsible to one/two dedicated aspects of the plan.

Even we fail this time; at least we can establish an organisation (such as a “Federal for Immigrants”) for future battles. As immigrants, we are vulnerable. If we don’t stick together, nobody else cares. We all have work to do and have little resource. Some people start to find a new job and have no time to think about justice. I am sure this unfair change of rules is not the first time and will not be the last one. What if after one year it changes to 6 years or completely overturn of the policy? We need to get together, form a strategy and an implementation plan.

This Easter Holiday might be a good time for a few initial phone calls or meetings? If you are interested, drop me an email at x_z_sean@yahoo.co.uk. Or we could meet on the forum. Say from Saturday 8am?

I don't know what you think about my thoughts? Please reply. I hope the thing doesn't just go quite.

Sean

[supertiger]

Hidden Dragon yr Chinese name is really encouraging if it is authentic!

[Kotiara]

Very interesting! but perhaps a long shot, given that the other EDM arguing for humane treatment of retired greyhounds has 103 signatures and is not much older than the one about humane treatment of Highly Skilled Migrants and other work-related categories, the latter having garnered only the signature of its author in a fortnight...

Well, I think it pretty much shows where we stand in this society. We are below f%cking dogs, aren't we?

[Hidden dragon]

Just an update of my action:

I called my local MP's office and was told that somebody else in his constituency already contacted him on this issue. (So we are making some noise at least!)

He's sent an enquiry letter to the Home Office Minister Tony McMulty (in charge of immigration) on this issue on 31st of March. We are hoping to get a reply within 2-3 weeks' time.

I'm not very clear about the time constraint on this matter. Could somebody advise? Would 2-3 weeks be too long to wait, hence requiring more immediate action?

Let's keep the pressure on. Keep the thing on their agenda....

Please update.

[lynn132]

[quote="Kotiara
Well, I think it pretty much shows where we stand in this society. We are below f%cking dogs, aren't we?[/quote]

Moderators, this kind of comment is really unproductive and offensive. Can we try to keep the whinging on this thread at least civil?

[Globetrotter]

[quote="Kotiara
Well, I think it pretty much shows where we stand in this society. We are below f%cking dogs, aren't we?

>>Moderators, this kind of comment is really unproductive and offensive. Can we try to keep the whinging on this thread at least civil?<<


Although I do not agree with the language, I share this expression of our shared frustration and there is some degree of truth to it.

GT

[timefactor]

These swearings are very casual, though not advisable on forums

Also it would be nice to have a report bad post feature on forum

[quote="Kotiara
Well, I think it pretty much shows where we stand in this society. We are below f%cking dogs, aren't we?

>>Moderators, this kind of comment is really unproductive and offensive. Can we try to keep the whinging on this thread at least civil?<<


Although I do not agree with the language, I share this expression of our shared frustration and there is some degree of truth to it.

GT

[sowhat]

I guess it is not even swearing in Australia. Maybe this guy is an Aussie?

[Hidden dragon]

ON THE STATEMENT OF CHANGES IN IMMIGRATION RULES (HC 974):

Some initial thoughts on the framework of the strategy:

Firstly, points of reference (PoR) of the framework should be established. A draft is given below for discussion:

[1] Need a summary of current situation and a communication mechanism (especially key dates!)
[2] Form coalition with other nationals.
[3] Agree on a common and realistic goal and make it the Charter of the coalition.
[4] Continue to lobby through political channels.
[5] Meanwhile draw media attention through demonstration.
[6] Lastly but maybe MOST importantly, prepare for the law case if all above fail!
[7] Even if all efforts fail, we shall still keep the coalition and develop it into a longer term organisation for future battles.

More detailed thoughts on each point of reference (PoR) is given below.

HOWEVER, AT THIS STAGE, TO ESTABLISH AND AGREE ON THE THE PoR FOR THE STRATEGY IS PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DEATILS.

[1] A summary of current situation:

a-major progress made to date (by all people);(I was wondering how is law case preparation supported and publicised by the www.SaynotoHo.org.uk going ?)
b-all organisations that have got involved;
c-major problems;
d-key dates!
e-statistics on number of petition made and MP contacted;
f- Summary of current position/reply from the Home Office.

[2] Form coalition with other nationals

a-find key contacts of each nation (maybe through the www.immigrationboards.com website)

b-have a meeting

c-establish communication method

d-key dates

[3] Agree on a common and realist goal and make it the charter of the coalition.

(We shall be careful not to be involved into other mine fields such as illegal immigration issue. See what Justice for Fathers has done? It became too extreme and disintegrated! We need rationales!)

a - Personally I think our goal should be to make the change of the rule NOT retrospective!

b – Rationales for making the case:

[4] Continue to lobby through political channels.

a - establish a network that covers as many constituency as possible.

b - Find the list of MPs and develop a table to target them one by one. Tick those who have been contacted and publish those who haven't until all of them receive either email or letter from us. (It is difficult to have Surgery if you are not living in the Mp's constituency, but sending letters/email should be alright. If not, we need to find a solution. The aim should be to contact all MPs)

c- Need some thoughts on SMPs (Scottish parliament members). This is because Scotland launched Fresh Talent Programme, which in the light of this change of immigration rules from the HO, looks strange! So maybe SMPs can pay a role too, but not sure.

[5] Meanwhile draw media attention through demonstration.

(Warning: A lot of technical problem to thing of on this one. Again, need to be careful on this!!!!)

a - I guess we don't have a very large body of people (hundreds? thousands? need the statistics on home many people got PR by WP or HSMP each year in the past).

b - So, scale is not our advantage.

c - But, we can have well-planned long lasting small scale protest. We could have say up to 10 people every weekend to demonstrate in London (location to be considered) in a weekly rota. In this way, we create and keep our presents without getting very tired! We need to persistent. AND Cautious!

[6] Lastly but maybe MOST importantly, prepare for the law case of all above fail!

a- how many lawyers have expressed interest in taking up the case, if any?

b- would need to think about money, time and effort to input I suppose

c- need more contacts.

d- an idea: publish an AD on Guardian to look for Lawyers and meanwhile send the protesting message out. This will have cost implications of course, but it should be worth it, for a good lawyer, and for public attention!

<<<<<<<<<PLEASE ADD ON YOUR THOUGHTS !>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<PLEASE ADD ON YOUR THOUGHTS !>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<PLEASE ADD ON YOUR THOUGHTS !>>>>>>>>>

I AM FROM A CHINESE COMMUNITY, COULD PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES RESPOND PLEASE?

Sorry for all the wrong spellings/grammar, life is too short!

Got to go! Speak to you later, maybe tonight.

SEAN

[supertiger]

I think the AD on Guardian and some other major medias can be a very good idea but we need to work out cost quickly.

[rooi_ding]

Just called the Guardian prices are for a full spread £11400, then half a page is £7553, they do a public announcement section on Wednesday which is £960 for a 10 x 2 block which I suspect is a small box but we would be grouped together with loads of other announcements, so any billionaire WP or HSMP’s out there or should we start passing the hat around…………………………
I also spoke to their political correspondent who seemed to think that we were all aware of the retrospective rule change until I explained that there was no mention of the retrospective change last year. I even informed her that one of our members has a signed letter from Mr. Clarke stating that his visa would not be affected; she was very interested in this. So RobinLondon if you are interested please PM me and I could put you in touch with the Political correspondent.

[a11]

that sounds interesting
perhaps you could let me know her details as well?

[supertiger]

Alternatively protesting before the Parliament is always a good idea to draw media attention. We have 340 signed the online petition and 500 signed Christine's paper petition, deduct some overlap, 500 should be a very conservative figure, and there are quite a no of people not yet sign or have some other concerns... if we can bring some supporters and friends should bring up to a thousand or more, and we can contact all major media political correspondence in advance so at least some should report it, especially soon after the French and American protests.

Don;t know if May Day is feasible as many may already have plans but it is an international holiday although not here, but a bank holiday this year... it should work together with other methods. We need 360 degrees means. And sooner than later.

[Hidden dragon]

ON THE STATEMENT OF CHANGES IN IMMIGRATION RULES (HC 974):

I am not sure if it will work, but read on. After all, if all of us think it will work, it might just will.

Thanks rooi_ding for finding out the price, which is indeed high but not impossible for us as a group.

Depending on what is an announcement page. If it is just for Ads, we can forget about it. On the other hand, if the page is more about proper announcements then we might just think about it.

I suppose say we had got 40 people in the entire UK to share the cost, and pay £96 each, with a clear, simple design of the Announcement we would create a knock-on effect at the national level (the size of the AD will be 10x8 cm2 )! And meanwhile possibly get a high-profile lawyer.

Think about it, it could work. If we decide to travel and demonstrate, the cost will be in the same order (considering also the value of time/annual leave?). Because we have work in this country, we should show our financial strength and £100 is not outrageous compared to how we are being treated. I think some people in the HO might have thought about our financial capability and decided we would NOT be able to do anything about it. In fact we can! Can’t we?

However, at the end of day, the decision does depend on the majority people's view on this.

Ultimately, if we go to court, we will need a good lawyer, need public opinion on our side and pressure on the judge. So we need publicity one way or the other. Alternatively, we can demonstrate on the May Day (or later which gives more time for preparation and laison) as suggested by supertiger. I am for the idea. How about other people? Please respond.

rooi_ding seems to some contacts/extra experience with the media. Do you know if other newspapers are cheaper or just about the same?

Could anybody who can either (1) pay up to £100 for the Guadian Announcement idea or (2) go for demonstration drop an email to me at x_z_sean@yahoo.co.uk, or just spell it out here?

No matter if u r for or against the ideas, just spell it out. We need to make A dicision fairly quickly, which is what matters.