Updates on Zambrano applications

[wiggsy]

wiggsy. any applicant that is granted 2.5 years limited stay would automatically be able to get extention for that visa for 4 times until 10 years is completed then ILR is due

ahh, I didnt realise this, and from what solicitor said when we visited one last time, he implied that each application for the new subsequent visas would be treated the same - IE: could fail...

- if its a case of first visa succeeds and then the other three will, then FLR is even more favourable...

Is it three or four further visas required? - i would of thought that first visa then application for second visa = 2 months min, then third, then fourth. etc should mean 4 visas total to about 10 years n six months (including the space between them etc)?
or is it required for the five visas total (first plus four)

obviously, as a child gets older, the level of dependancy decreases. so further DRC applications could fail after five / ten years etc... (even though they shouldnt, because emotional dependancy only ever increases - think off how your parents are if they loose grandparents ETC)


@Mam2 - I keep making the requests to get a straight answer - as of yet I havent got a straight answer from them. - rewording the requests seems to help here and there, and i believe my recent request might of been spot on... - hence them not replying on time... - surely all the guidance is what we need to know how to apply, and what to send in etc...
- as with a FLR application, until they make a decision, evidential flexibility applies too - so keep sending further letters etc. - ive made it a goal to send at least one email a week to chase them up.. and my MP has wrote to them in addition to complaint about failure to return my passport.

- i actually had a job interview in ireland, which ive had to postpone because they hold my passport (british citizen).

They hold my passport because they know once i work in ireland, then its a clear case of my wife being able to return to the UK without problems etc (even though ive already worked in Finland).

I think the Singh route of five years to PR would be better if possible for people - my wifes case is unique where as i can move to ireland, register self employed, and work from home even doing programming / web design etc and be considered as a worker etc.

on a positive note though, it seems clear that UKBA accept that my wife is within the scope of zambrano, despite me being a "carer" for our children. otherwise they wouldnt of issued a COA to her.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 026321.pdf
Annex B.
general enquiries - however, im sure UKBA would hold some document stating what a COA is etc but this is sufficient etc

[wiggsy]

I disagree that they need training, what is needed is change of policy in relation to Zambrano cases. Caseworkers are simply following guidance issued to them and the guidance is simply a simplified form of the policy.

exactly... - however, they dont follow the policy and guidance provided either...
note: first COA was blamed on an administrative error, and took almost a month to correct. - but see annex A of the FOI above - note how it says "DO NOT ISSUE A COA".

[Babz]

@ wiggsy,
I've been following requests based on zambrano from FOI and it amazing how many requests you have made and keep making and yet they toss you up and down.
Everyones case is different but what we all have in common is the element of dependency which zambrano should consider. As I have said before, they need training,proper training to make proper decisions.

I disagree that they need training, what is needed is change of policy in relation to Zambrano cases. Caseworkers are simply following guidance issued to them and the guidance is simply a simplified form of the policy.

@Prince74; I believe what is needed is both training and change in policy. As regards training,some caseworkers can't even interpret laid down policies that's why they keep making silly mistakes. I have once spoken to an immigration officer who doesn't even know what PSW is all about.He felt it meant 'postgraduate visa'. These people are humans like us and just because they are in a position to decide the outcome of our visa applications doesn't mean they are better or more intellectual than us.
As regards policies, we are no stranger to the fact that HO always try to looks for loopholes around any EU policy. Or why do you think it's easier to apply under Zambrano in Ireland than in the UK?

[kofi75]

Sorry to take you back again.
@Kofi75
What grounds did ukba tell u to appeal? Pls if you don't mind. Thank you.

Ukba try to limit ur appeal to the Zambrano but article 8 and Zambrano are intertwinned.There is a space on the appeal form that allows you to make statement of additional grounds including reasons relating to European Convention on Human rights.
Since the refusal notice states that you have no alternative basis of stay in the Uk so we should make arrangements to leave voluntarily or our removal will be enforced,i used that as a basis to state out grounds of our Article 8 as well.I have a case law to support it at court.
Omotunde(best interests-Zambrano applied-Razgar)Nigeria(2011)UKUT
The case study above well fits for all primary carers of British Citizens.The upper tribunal overturned the decision of the First tier tribunal using ZH Tanzania and Zambrano ruling.Fits perfect for us in court

[yahwadud]

wiggsy. any applicant that is granted 2.5 years limited stay would automatically be able to get extention for that visa for 4 times until 10 years is completed then ILR is due

ahh, I didnt realise this, and from what solicitor said when we visited one last time, he implied that each application for the new subsequent visas would be treated the same - IE: could fail...

- if its a case of first visa succeeds and then the other three will, then FLR is even more favourable...

Is it three or four further visas required? - i would of thought that first visa then application for second visa = 2 months min, then third, then fourth. etc should mean 4 visas total to about 10 years n six months (including the space between them etc)?
or is it required for the five visas total (first plus four)

obviously, as a child gets older, the level of dependancy decreases. so further DRC applications could fail after five / ten years etc... (even though they shouldnt, because emotional dependancy only ever increases - think off how your parents are if they loose grandparents ETC)


@Mam2 - I keep making the requests to get a straight answer - as of yet I havent got a straight answer from them. - rewording the requests seems to help here and there, and i believe my recent request might of been spot on... - hence them not replying on time... - surely all the guidance is what we need to know how to apply, and what to send in etc...
- as with a FLR application, until they make a decision, evidential flexibility applies too - so keep sending further letters etc. - ive made it a goal to send at least one email a week to chase them up.. and my MP has wrote to them in addition to complaint about failure to return my passport.

- i actually had a job interview in ireland, which ive had to postpone because they hold my passport (british citizen).

They hold my passport because they know once i work in ireland, then its a clear case of my wife being able to return to the UK without problems etc (even though ive already worked in Finland).

I think the Singh route of five years to PR would be better if possible for people - my wifes case is unique where as i can move to ireland, register self employed, and work from home even doing programming / web design etc and be considered as a worker etc.

on a positive note though, it seems clear that UKBA accept that my wife is within the scope of zambrano, despite me being a "carer" for our children. otherwise they wouldnt of issued a COA to her.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 026321.pdf
Annex B.
general enquiries - however, im sure UKBA would hold some document stating what a COA is etc but this is sufficient etc

hello wiggsy. you just use a child as an example.mind you ,not every flro visa is issued on basis of a child.some are issued on basis of been in relationship without a kid E.T.C. And also, sometimes its possible to apply for flro and get ILR when an applicant is expecting a DRL.

[mam2]

@Kofi75;
Pls did they say you should prepare to leave together with your son (step-son)? Or there was an alternative care for him here if you both leave?ie, his biological father? Any mention of him?
To me, either of it is ridiculous. I still can't come to terms with it.
Did they return both your passports and other documents?
I believe your case was a perfect interpretation of their judgement and yet they still found a reason to deny you.
What I don't understand is,we apply for DRC just for confirmation of our rights so refusal to confirm does not take the right away,does it?
They shouldn't tell any one to leave. What about those who choose not to apply for DRC.

[GLH2012]

@Kofi75;
Pls did they say you should prepare to leave together with your son (step-son)? Or there was an alternative care for him here if you both leave?ie, his biological father? Any mention of him?
To me, either of it is ridiculous. I still can't come to terms with it.
Did they return both your passports and other documents?
I believe your case was a perfect interpretation of their judgement and yet they still found a reason to deny you.
What I don't understand is,we apply for DRC just for confirmation of our rights so refusal to confirm does not take the right away,does it?
They shouldn't tell any one to leave. What about those who choose not to apply for DRC.

Happy Easter all, @Kofi75, sorry to hear about their refusal. You are right mam2, this whole thing is ridiculous. HO just cant say parents who have been caring for a child since birth or probably early in a child's life to stop, the child yanked from them and be given to another parent in the UK who could care less about the care of the child. Our circumstances existed before Zambrano came into effect so it only seem unfair that an absentee or estranged parent still has the power to hurt their kid. The appeal i believe would go in our favour if we are refused, but my fear is the time wasting. We all need to start living our lives. Keep fighting Kofi75, dependency is all you need to prove not marriage, Zambrano is also opened to non-parents(guardians) caring for a British citizens so their refusal does not hold water.

[wiggsy]

hello wiggsy. you just use a child as an example.mind you ,not every flro visa is issued on basis of a child.some are issued on basis of been in relationship without a kid E.T.C. And also, sometimes its possible to apply for flro and get ILR when an applicant is expecting a DRL.

the EX1 allows for the maintenance income etc to be reduced etc too, however, this info was relating to the parent of a child - zambrano primary carer.

my friend at work has applied, and earns less than required limits... he is the primary carer of his gran, and although works its no where near 18 grand...

i understand it has options for people without kids, i just pointed out the relevant part for this case above

[wiggsy]

What about those who choose not to apply for DRC.

they get administrative removal began if ukba "catch up with them"...

[kiss300]

has anyone had their DRC yet. i am tired of waiting.

[mam2]

Still waiting. I applied last year April.

[kofi75]

Still waiting. I applied last year April.

They never going to make decision on cases yet.You will have to push them to make a decision on your case so you can move on.Take a cue from Prince74,he waited for nearly 2 yrs to get that decision.Even that he had to push them.Imagine waiting all this while to get a refusal not forgetting the months to go through appeal.
I will advise you to push them to make a decision on your case.,at least then you know your next move.I am waiting on our appeal date.Did you check out the case law i put out?It is perfect for a Zambrano.

[mam2]

Hmm, Kofi75, me pushe paa o, but heard nothing still. I've read the case laws and all of them(abt 5 or so) my solicitor cited them in the cover letter he sent with my application, and even added them to consider it alongside article 8. I will contact them again tomorrow via letter and email. I have not contacted my mp yet but will do.

[kofi75]

Hmm, Kofi75, me pushe paa o, but heard nothing still. I've read the case laws and all of them(abt 5 or so) my solicitor cited them in the cover letter he sent with my application, and even added them to consider it alongside article 8. I will contact them again tomorrow via letter and email. I have not contacted my mp yet but will do.

Check your mail box,they are not considering the application according to the law.They are deciding them by sentiments.The case laws will only work in court before a judge.Keep pushing,ebeye yie wai

[Babz]

UKBA is crazy when it comes to Zambrano. My sister's friend applied in Aug 2012 and it took them just 6 weeks to issues her visa but when my sister applied 2 months after,it took them 13 months to issue hers...

[labelle]

Still waiting. I applied last year April.

They never going to make decision on cases yet.You will have to push them to make a decision on your case so you can move on.Take a cue from Prince74,he waited for nearly 2 yrs to get that decision.Even that he had to push them.Imagine waiting all this while to get a refusal not forgetting the months to go through appeal.
I will advise you to push them to make a decision on your case.,at least then you know your next move.I am waiting on our appeal date.Did you check out the case law i put out?It is perfect for a Zambrano.

Kofi, it shall be well with you. Hopefully they will start to make decisions soon , but I also agree with you , sometimes when you are too quiet , you are left out.
"Harassing "them the right way , can help as well.

[labelle]

UKBA is crazy when it comes to Zambrano. My sister's friend applied in Aug 2012 and it took them just 6 weeks to issues her visa but when my sister applied 2 months after,it took them 13 months to issue hers...

Hi Babz,
Did your sister and her friend receive the Zambrano DRC? If yes , was it in the uk please?

[Babz]

UKBA is crazy when it comes to Zambrano. My sister's friend applied in Aug 2012 and it took them just 6 weeks to issues her visa but when my sister applied 2 months after,it took them 13 months to issue hers...

Hi Babz,
Did your sister and her friend receive the Zambrano DRC? If yes , was it in the uk please?

Yes they did.It was here in the UK

[mam2]

Babz,
Zambrano in UK issued within 6 weeks? When was that? You mentioned visa, do you mean discretionary leave to remain?

[Babz]

Babz,
Zambrano in UK issued within 6 weeks? When was that? You mentioned visa, do you mean discretionary leave to remain?

Yeah,DLR...And quote me right, 6 week. It was in Aug 2011.

[labelle]

Babz,
Zambrano in UK issued within 6 weeks? When was that? You mentioned visa, do you mean discretionary leave to remain?

Yeah,DLR...And quote me right, 6 week. It was in Aug 2011.

Thanks Babz, DLR is completely different from the zambrano DRC.
Thank you for your reply

[Babz]

Babz,
Zambrano in UK issued within 6 weeks? When was that? You mentioned visa, do you mean discretionary leave to remain?

Yeah,DLR...And quote me right, 6 week. It was in Aug 2011.

Thanks Babz, DLR is completely different from the zambrano DRC.
Thank you for your reply

oh,is it?Thanks for the clarification.But I'm definitely sure they both applied based on having British kids and used the same solicitor

[progeny5kay]

Hi all sorry to bring the bad news after threatening UKBA they finally respond, sent me all my document with a refusal letter and the grounds for the refusal are:
1. That I did not submit a valid passport, registration document, nationality status letter for my child as evidence of British citizen and also in the birth certificate of my daughter that i submitted my first name was written as second name so they said because of this I am not the father or legal guardian of a British citizen and also failed to provide evidence that I am a primary carer of a British citizen and that the British citizen is residing in the UK.

2. That I have stated that there's another carer which is the mother (but i stated in my application she has medical issues since she has the baby and was referred to mother and baby unit so she won't be able to take care of the child if am not here) they said i have not provide enough evidence to why she will not be able to assume the care of the child. I submitted the incapacity benefit letters to show evidence. so they concluded saying you are neither the person who has primary responsibility for the care of the child nor someone who shares equal responsibility with one other person who is not an exempt person.

Finally they stated: As you do not have a valid passport you do not have a right of appeal against this decision as per regulation 26(3) of the immigration(EEA) regulations 2006 as amended.They said the position of my child has been considered light of requirement incumbent on UKBA agency as defined 55 of the 2009 Act and section 11 of the children Act 2004 and also in the light of supreme court ruling in the case of ZH(Tanzania) {2011}UKSC

then they started advising me if i want to go for article 8 private life e.t.c and also said based on what i submitted my entitlement to rely on the immigration(EEA) regulations 2006 cannot be established, there is no right of appeal against this decision
Lastly they said : if you consider that you have a right to reside in the UK as a matter of EU law and are in the position to submit the necessary information to support your application for DRC as recognition of that right you may which to submit further applications.

As you appear you have no alternative basis of stay in the UK you should now make an arrangement to leave. If you fail to do so voluntarily your departure maybe enforced.



DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED TO UKBA
Daughter's UK birth certificate
daughter's NHS card
daughter's GP registration letter
Letter from our local community health centre in regards to my Daughter
My partner's incapacity benefit letters to show she is on a sick
Our home insurance document with my name and partner name on to show as proof of address as me and my daughter leaves at the same address
letter from me to Ukba explaining the grounds and circumstances surrounding my application
photo evidences
letter from my partner explaining she is sick and i have been the one they rely on

[labelle]

I'm sorry to bring this sad news, I wish I could give news that would encourage those who are waiting.

My zambrano application has been refused , the reasons for the refusal are :
- there is insufficient evidence to show that the British child would be unable to remain in the uk /EEA if you were forced to leave.
-You have failed to provide evidence on why the father is not in position to care for the British child
-you have not provided evidence to show how you financially support the British child and yourself
Then they go on about the art 8 and appeal, they have also kept my passport.

I know I have to appeal but how can one prove that the father is not in the position to care for his child, we are not in communication and don't know his whereabouts .
I was given 10 days to appeal.
I would appreciate any advice.
All the best for those still waiting ,

Many thanks

[mam2]

@labelle,
Pls when was refusal date and when did you receive it? I just want to know if I can submit further evidence.