FLR(O) Discretionary Leave waiting times ..??

[verbina]

@socrates ok thats good. So then what they should eventually do is send you removal directions notice in the post. But be prepared, you may only get a couple days notice..
Do have a look at the link above, also scroll down to comments, some useful info from solicitors there re Pre Action Protocol letters and Reconsideration requests.

[Fayvritt]

@Socrate, you could have got indefinite leave from the army, why were u discharged before completing the full 4 years contract?

[socrates]

@socrates ok thats good. So then what they should eventually do is send you removal directions notice in the post. But be prepared, you may only get a couple days notice..
Do have a look at the link above, also scroll down to comments, some useful info from solicitors there re Pre Action Protocol letters and Reconsideration requests.

@Verbina, Thanks for the link and your kind advise, I am going to try and see a solicitor by thursday, from the comments on the link you sent, I think I will rather go for reconsideration first and see how it goes. Thanks a lot

[Believe2013]

Forum, my honest opinion at the moment and not based on anecdotal evidence, if you are refused and not given a right of appeal you are better off waiting for a removal notice my arguments for and against are below.

pros

1) The obvious one, the removal notice generates an automatic right of appeal

2) once served with notice you will be getting a hearing date ASAP as opposed to Judicial Review you WILL have to wait until 2014.

3) Save your self at least £4000-£6000 in Judicial Reviews fees as the HO is not perturbed by PAPs and threat of Judicial Review at the moment. Why that figure? because you end up lodging a JR proceedings for the delay of your first JR for the refusal.
What a mess but if you are in commercial law you are laughing.

Cons,

1) There is no guarantees whether or not you will be served with a removal notice immediately it could take months if not a year.

2) You narrow your options by bypassing the JR proceedings.

The legal representatives I have spoken to all agree with the mess the HO have created - so entirely up to you which way you want to go but I have been quite lucky to get honest and realistic opinions from these guys

[socrates]

@socrates ok thats good. So then what they should eventually do is send you removal directions notice in the post. But be prepared, you may only get a couple days notice..
Do have a look at the link above, also scroll down to comments, some useful info from solicitors there re Pre Action Protocol letters and Reconsideration requests.

@Verbina, Thanks for the link and your kind advise, I am going to try and see a solicitor by thursday, from the comments on the link you sent, I think I will rather go for reconsideration first and see how it goes. I became an overstayer due to their fault in the first place, I was sitting down for 8 months waiting for reconsideration as allowed by the appeal tribunal, not knowing they have sent the refusal letter to a different solicitor I never used, not until I contacted my MP after 8 months I was informed of their decision, I have the letter UKBA sent acknoleging their error. Thanks a lot

[socrates]

Forum, my honest opinion at the moment and not based on anecdotal evidence, if you are refused and not given a right of appeal you are better off waiting for a removal notice my arguments for and against are below.

pros

1) The obvious one, the removal notice generates an automatic right of appeal

2) once served with notice you will getting a hearing date ASAP as opposed to Judicial Review you WILL have to wait until 2014.

3) Save your self at least £4000-£6000 in Judicial Reviews fees as the HO is not perturbed by PAPs and threat of Judicial Review at the moment. Why that figure? because you end up lodging a JR proceedings for the delay of your first JR for the refusal.
What a mess but if you are in commercial law you are laughing.

Cons,

1) There is no guarantees whether or not you will be served with a removal notice immediately it could take months if not a year.

2) You narrow your options by bypassing the JR proceedings.

The legal representatives I have spoken to all agree with the mess the HO have created - so entirely up to you which way you want to go but I have been quite lucky to get real, honest and realistic opinions from these guys

@ Believe2013, so what is your suggestion? I think the pros outweighs the Cons. What do you think?

[Call me dude]

@Socrates commiserations sir - I don't normally lose my cool but I am on the brink. The decision making has been poor, irrational, illogical and the list goes on and on. Well it could be a blessing in disguise that all the emphasis and power shifts to the courts now. They understand Article 8 better than these idiots in the HO. Don't lose faith people, it's emotionally harrowing and draining, I have been there but certainly not over. The backlog is truly indeed been passed on to the courts. Very coy and stupid of the HO to sabotage the Judicial system, it will backfire spectacularly.

@Believe2013, thanks so much for your encouragement, it is disheartning to say the least, the case worker did not even made any mention of my time with the Army, despite letter from my old regiment, photographs while in the Army, certificate of allegiance to Her Majesty while in the Army. God is on his throne. The most painful is this endless wait because I lost my job because
of this problem and has been out of job for about two years now

So sorry Socrates....as a mother of 2 I know what it means to be out of work for 2years.God is your strength.i can't stop thinking about your twins and your wife.i believe there is light at the end of a dark tunnel.everything will come out in your favour in Jesus name.Be strong bro.....

[socrates]

@Socrates commiserations sir - I don't normally lose my cool but I am on the brink. The decision making has been poor, irrational, illogical and the list goes on and on. Well it could be a blessing in disguise that all the emphasis and power shifts to the courts now. They understand Article 8 better than these idiots in the HO. Don't lose faith people, it's emotionally harrowing and draining, I have been there but certainly not over. The backlog is truly indeed been passed on to the courts. Very coy and stupid of the HO to sabotage the Judicial system, it will backfire spectacularly.

@Believe2013, thanks so much for your encouragement, it is disheartning to say the least, the case worker did not even made any mention of my time with the Army, despite letter from my old regiment, photographs while in the Army, certificate of allegiance to Her Majesty while in the Army. God is on his throne. The most painful is this endless wait because I lost my job because
of this problem and has been out of job for about two years now

So sorry Socrates....as a mother of 2 I know what it means to be out of work for 2years.God is your strength.i can't stop thinking about your twins and your wife.i believe there is light at the end of a dark tunnel.everything will come out in your favour in Jesus name.Be strong bro.....

@ Call me dude, Thanks so much Sis, I really appreciate your empathy and your encouragement. May God grant you your heart desires in Jesus Name

[verbina]

@socrates ok thats good. So then what they should eventually do is send you removal directions notice in the post. But be prepared, you may only get a couple days notice..
Do have a look at the link above, also scroll down to comments, some useful info from solicitors there re Pre Action Protocol letters and Reconsideration requests.

@Verbina, Thanks for the link and your kind advise, I am going to try and see a solicitor by thursday, from the comments on the link you sent, I think I will rather go for reconsideration first and see how it goes. Thanks a lot

Yep! Exactly! Good luck with your solicitor hun and let us know what course of action you planning to take! Keep your chin up!!

[socrates]

@Socrate, you could have got indefinite leave from the army, why were u discharged before completing the full 4 years contract?

@ Fayvritt, I was discharged because of a recurring injury I have on my right hand, though not sustained while in service

[socrates]

@socrates ok thats good. So then what they should eventually do is send you removal directions notice in the post. But be prepared, you may only get a couple days notice..
Do have a look at the link above, also scroll down to comments, some useful info from solicitors there re Pre Action Protocol letters and Reconsideration requests.

@Verbina, Thanks for the link and your kind advise, I am going to try and see a solicitor by thursday, from the comments on the link you sent, I think I will rather go for reconsideration first and see how it goes. Thanks a lot

Yep! Exactly! Good luck with your solicitor hun and let us know what course of action you planning to take! Keep your chin up!!

@Verbina, Thanks a bunch. Yes I will keep you all informed. God bless

[hatchsead]

@HATCHSEED I AGREE KNOWLEDGE IS INDEED POWER.... THERE IS NOT A LOT ONE CAN DO WITHOUT A VALID VISA FROM HO.... BUT IN GODS TIME WE WILL BE GRANTED ALL OUR HEART DESIRES AND WE CAN PROCEED TO MAXIMISE OUR POTENTIALS.. WATS IOSC ?????

Office of the Immigration Services Commissioner -OISC
Its a training in immigration law thats approved by OISC.
So all the qualified immigration advisers must be OISC accredited hun

@yummymummy3j,

As rightly mentioned by Verbina. Office of Immigration Services Commissioner” OISC www.oisc.gov.uk

There are 3 levels to the training;



(OISC Level 1- Initial advice ) Work permitted at OISC Level 1:

The OISC only permits an OISC Level 1 Adviser to make applications permitted within the Immigration Rules are listed below;

1. Asylum

The OISC only allows an OISC Level 1 adviser to offer only very limited services at OISC level 1. No substantive asylum work is permitted at OISC Level 1 (especially applications and appeals). Only one-off assistance is permitted at OISC Level 1, including:

notifying the United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) of a change of address
extension of Temporary Admission
applications for permission to work
travel document applications for someone granted Humanitarian Protection/Exceptional Leave to Remain

2. Applications for entry clearance, Leave to Enter or Leave to Remain

Work permitted at OISC Level 1

Basic applications are permitted at OISC Level 1 that are within the Immigration Rules in the following categories:

visitors
students
spouses/unmarried partners
other family members
immigration employment documents
all applications under PBS, visitors, diplomats, their family members and domestic staff, and non-asylum Case Resolution/ Legacy Cases
other applications such as au pair, postgraduate medical/dental training and private medical treatment

Work not permitted at OISC Level 1

Applications involving detailed representations and follow-up correspondence such as:

applications for Indefinite Leave to Remain on the grounds of long residence in the United Kingdom (UK)K (14 years' continuous residence)
applications for settlement on the grounds of domestic violence
applications for further leave to remain/settlement in respect of adopted children
applications that are not within the Immigration Rules

are not permitted at OISC Level 1.

Illegal entrants, overstayers, removal or deportation from the UK

No work is permitted at OISC Level 1.



3. Nationality and citizenship under UK law

Basic applications are allowed at OISC Level 1 and include applications for:

· naturalisation as a British citizen

· registration as a British citizen



4. European Union (EU) and European Economic Area (EEA) immigration law

Basic applications are allowed at OISC Level 1 and include applications for:

residence permit for an EU/EEA national
family permit for a non-EU/EEA family member
entry clearance for non-EU/EEA family member
Workers Registration Scheme
A2 Accession Scheme

5. Detention, applications for temporary admission, CIO bail and immigration judge bail

No work is permitted at OISC Level 1. A client must be referred on to a higher level adviser as soon as possible.



OISC Level 2 (LSC Level 1) - Casework

Work permitted at OISC Level 2:

At OISC Level 2 , more complex applications in all categories are permitted as well as applications outside the Immigration Rules and applications under Home Office concessionary or discretionary policies. An adviser at this level can submit One-Stop Notices and lodge appeals on initial grounds but must then refer the case to a higher level adviser.

The following additional work is permitted at OISC Level 2:

applications to the UKBA, including asylum and human rights applications and concessionary or discretionary applications
Case Resolution/Legacy Cases and Active Review
applications for Humanitarian Protection
representing clients in correspondence with the UKBA and at UKBA interviews
representations to the UKBA in support of cases
drafting client statements, including asylum statements
submitting One-Stop Notices
lodging appeals (only in exceptional circumstances where immediate referral is not possible)
applications for temporary admission and Chief Immigration Officer's bail
family reunion applications
representations regarding ongoing immigration or asylum casework to MPs
instructing a barrister or advocate for advice and to draft appropriate grounds of appeal (where permitted by the Bar Council)

Competence requirements:

Advisers at OISC level 2 must, in addition to the competences required at Level 1 , demonstrate the following:
Knowledge

1. An OISC Level 2 Adviser must possess detailed knowledge of immigration and nationality law, including:

grounds for applications
UKBA practice in the consideration of cases
UKBA concessionary policies
grounds for lodging appeals including human rights grounds
procedures for human rights applications, e.g. One-Stop Notices

2. An OISC Level 2 Adviser must possess detailed knowledge of relevant rights of appeal, time limits and procedures up to and including the lodging of the appeal and an awareness of relevant rights of appeal, time limits and procedures at the later stages of the appeal process.

3. An OISC Level 2 Adviser must possess a working knowledge of relevant case law and precedents and how to access and use them effectively when making representations on the client's behalf.

4. An OISC Level 2 Adviser must possess detailed knowledge of the types of evidence needed to support appeals and applications outside the Immigration Rules and how to obtain them, and also the relative weight to be attached to different types of evidence.

5. An OISC Level 2 Adviser must possess detailed knowledge of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), the Human Rights Act 1998 (HRA) and other relevant law.

6. Advisers at OISC Level 2 must be aware that where they are working on asylum cases, they must have a detailed knowledge of asylum legislation and procedures, including the 1951 Refugee Convention, its 1967 Protocol and the UNHCR Handbook for determining refugee status.

7. Where an OISC Level 2 adviser is working on bail and detention cases, knowledge of the powers of the immigration authorities to grant bail or temporary admission, procedures for obtaining bail and UKBA practice in the consideration of cases, including an awareness of the factors that must be taken into account when detaining an individual for immigration reasons.

8. An OISC Level 2 Adviser must possess clear understanding of the limits to the adviser's knowledge and competence and of when to refer cases on. This includes a general knowledge of immigration, asylum and nationality law and procedure to ensure that a client can be referred on for advice in areas in which the adviser is not qualified at OISC Level 2. Advisers at OISC Level 2 must be competent in all areas of work permitted at OISC Level 1.



OISC Level 3 (LSC Level 2) - Advocacy and representation

Work permitted at OISC Level 3:

Some advocacy work is permitted at OISC Level 2, for example a OISC Level 2 adviser may make written and oral representations to the UKBA. However, it is only possible to represent clients at appeal hearings before an immigration judge at the AIT at OISC Level 3. OISC Level 3 work is any work done pursuant to the lodging of the notice of appeal against refusal, as well as the conduct of specialist casework, e.g. challenging existing case law and third country asylum cases. It requires a high level of knowledge of immigration law and practice, including a thorough conversance with relevant case law, human rights legislation and also asylum law where applicable. OISC Level 3 advisers should also be aware of rights and procedures connected with judicial/statutory review, although they are not permitted to represent clients in proceedings in higher courts, nor to instruct counsel to do so.

Work permitted at OISC Level 3 includes:

conduct of specialist casework
preparation of cases in the AIT, including drafting full grounds of appeal
representing clients before the AIT
instructing a barrister or advocate to appear at the AIT (where permitted by the Bar Council)

Competence requirements:

Advisers at this level, in addition to the competences required at OISC Levels 1 and OISC Level 2, need to demonstrate the following:
Knowledge

1. An OISC Level 3 Adviser must have detailed knowledge of immigration, asylum and nationality law, including:

grounds for complex applications in the areas of work in which advice/services are provided
UKBA and AIT practice in the consideration of appeals and complex cases
UKBA concessionary/discretionary policies in complex cases
grounds of appeal to the AIT, including human rights and race relations grounds.

2. An OISC Level 3 Adviser must have detailed knowledge of relevant rights of appeal, time limits and procedures in the AIT, up to and including full hearings before the AIT, and sufficient awareness of rights and procedures in relation to judicial/statutory review to make appropriate referrals to a solicitor.

3. An OISC Level 3 Adviser must have a sufficiently thorough knowledge of relevant case law and precedents to identify and make good use of appropriate case law to support a client's case, anticipate and respond effectively to the citing of precedents by the immigration authorities, and to do so during a hearing where necessary. Also sufficient knowledge and skill to be able to challenge existing case law where appropriate.

4. An OISC Level 3 Adviser must have a sufficiently thorough knowledge of the types of evidence needed to support complex cases and appeals up to AIT level and how to obtain them.

5. An OISC Level 3 Adviser must have a sufficiently thorough knowledge of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), the Human Rights Act 1998 (HRA), the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 and other relevant international law relating to immigration and asylum cases to be able to make effective and appropriate representations using this legislation in complex cases and appeals up to AIT level.

6. An OISC Level 3 Adviser must have clear understanding of the limits to the adviser's knowledge and competence and of how to refer cases on. This includes a general knowledge of immigration, asylum and nationality law and procedure to ensure that a client can be referred on for advice in areas in which the adviser is not qualified at Level 3. Advisers at Level 3 must be competent in all areas of work permitted at Level 1.

[verbina]

Forum, my honest opinion at the moment and not based on anecdotal evidence, if you are refused and not given a right of appeal you are better off waiting for a removal notice my arguments for and against are below.

pros

1) The obvious one, the removal notice generates an automatic right of appeal

2) once served with notice you will getting a hearing date ASAP as opposed to Judicial Review you WILL have to wait until 2014.

3) Save your self at least £4000-£6000 in Judicial Reviews fees as the HO is not perturbed by PAPs and threat of Judicial Review at the moment. Why that figure? because you end up lodging a JR proceedings for the delay of your first JR for the refusal.
What a mess but if you are in commercial law you are laughing.

Cons,

1) There is no guarantees whether or not you will be served with a removal notice immediately it could take months if not a year.

2) You narrow your options by bypassing the JR proceedings.

The legal representatives I have spoken to all agree with the mess the HO have created - so entirely up to you which way you want to go but I have been quite lucky to get real, honest and realistic opinions from these guys

@ Believe2013, so what is your suggestion? I think the pros outweighs the Cons. What do you think?

@believe Im sorry hun, it doesnt generate automatic right of appeal, unfortunately there is still a chance the application can be 'certified' by HO, then no right of appeal follows.
But then the same stands for JR, there s a chance they wont allow a JR if they see little merit in it.
But everything else I totally agree with! Although its vital you see solicitor as soon as you can @Socrates , so then they will evaluate everything and advise you on the best way to deal with this.

[Believe2013]

@Socrates yes they do sir, I wish I hadn't paid for mine, I am still waiting for a date for court and have been told more likely 2014. My JR blocks any removal notice from being issued so I have no idea when I will get my hearing.

[socrates]

Forum, my honest opinion at the moment and not based on anecdotal evidence, if you are refused and not given a right of appeal you are better off waiting for a removal notice my arguments for and against are below.

pros

1) The obvious one, the removal notice generates an automatic right of appeal

2) once served with notice you will getting a hearing date ASAP as opposed to Judicial Review you WILL have to wait until 2014.

3) Save your self at least £4000-£6000 in Judicial Reviews fees as the HO is not perturbed by PAPs and threat of Judicial Review at the moment. Why that figure? because you end up lodging a JR proceedings for the delay of your first JR for the refusal.
What a mess but if you are in commercial law you are laughing.

Cons,

1) There is no guarantees whether or not you will be served with a removal notice immediately it could take months if not a year.

2) You narrow your options by bypassing the JR proceedings.

The legal representatives I have spoken to all agree with the mess the HO have created - so entirely up to you which way you want to go but I have been quite lucky to get real, honest and realistic opinions from these guys

@ Believe2013, so what is your suggestion? I think the pros outweighs the Cons. What do you think?

@believe Im sorry hun, it doesnt generate automatic right of appeal, unfortunately there is still a chance the application can be 'certified' by HO, then no right of appeal follows.
But then the same stands for JR, there s a chance they wont allow a JR if they see little merit in it.
But everything else I totally agree with! Although its vital you see solicitor as soon as you can @Socrates , so then they will evaluate everything and advise you on the best way to deal with this.

@Verbina, please explain what you mean by ''a chance the application can be certified by HO''

[socrates]

@Socrates yes they do sir, I wish I hadn't paid for mine, I am still waiting for a date for court and have been told more likely 2014. My JR blocks any removal notice from being issued so I have no idea when I will get my hearing.

@Believe, Thanks. It is just the waiting that is killing me as the whole appeal/reconsideration/JR takes a bit of time again, after wasting more than a year waiting to get this outragous decisions

[verbina]

@ socrates The right of appeal will be on the grounds that your removal from the UK will be in breach of the UK's obligations under the European Convention On Human Rights (ECHR) unless the Home Office certified your human rights claim as manifestly unfounded.

[yummymummy3j]

@hatchseed thx a lot...d link is soo explanatory

[Fayvritt]

@Socrates, I still believe u can get a discretionary leave out of it, if u apply and raise that issue with evidence of discharge certificate and documents relating to it. it wasn't your fault, you were discharged on medical grounds, 3 years deserves a reward.

[hatchsead]

@Socrates, I still believe u can get a discretionary leave out of it, if u apply and raise that issue with evidence of discharge certificate and documents relating to it. it wasn't your fault, you were discharged on medical grounds, 3 years deserves a reward.

I totally agree that you can include this having served in Her Majest's Service for 3 years should count for something. This is also to show that you intend not only to make UK your home having served her but also committed to it.

[socrates]

@ socrates The right of appeal will be on the grounds that your removal from the UK will be in breach of the UK's obligations under the European Convention On Human Rights (ECHR) unless the Home Office certified your human rights claim as manifestly unfounded.

@Verbina, Thanks for the explanation

[SDP]

@sdp i know its scary dear , and i know how u feel.......i am prayin for you dear.. you will hearfrom them soon and i pray its good news in jesus name

Thank you very much !
God Bless you !

[socrates]

@Socrates, I still believe u can get a discretionary leave out of it, if u apply and raise that issue with evidence of discharge certificate and documents relating to it. it wasn't your fault, you were discharged on medical grounds, 3 years deserves a reward.

@Fayvritt and Htachsead, Yes, I will raise the issues. The caseworker did not even mention anything about my years in the Army. Thanks guys

[GodGives]

@socrates, sorry to hear about the refusal. When did u apply? was it a fresh application and your story plz

I applied for FLR(O) in July 29th 2012. Fresh application, came here as a student in 2004, been in study until 2010 when my application for extention was refused. I went to appeal tribunal and was allowed for reconsideration, but home office still refused based on the fact that I did not prove my relationship with my sponsor/guardian, even though he ahs been my sponsor in all my other applications that were granted. I did not know UKBA refused the reconsideration allowed by the appeal tribunal until after 8 months because UKBA sent the letter to a solicitor I never used, so I became an overstayer without knowing. I have children (TWINS) that are 4 years old and were born in the UK, served three years in the British Territorial Army, wife has been depressed for over 7 years and the social services are involved in helping her and the kids, all documents provided but still got refused

Am really sorry to hear this Socrates and Keisha. They draft the same rubbish on all refusal letters. They told me to call the enforcement team as well with a deadline I didn't. You all have to be strong and fight for your right.

[socrates]

@socrates, sorry to hear about the refusal. When did u apply? was it a fresh application and your story plz

I applied for FLR(O) in July 29th 2012. Fresh application, came here as a student in 2004, been in study until 2010 when my application for extention was refused. I went to appeal tribunal and was allowed for reconsideration, but home office still refused based on the fact that I did not prove my relationship with my sponsor/guardian, even though he ahs been my sponsor in all my other applications that were granted. I did not know UKBA refused the reconsideration allowed by the appeal tribunal until after 8 months because UKBA sent the letter to a solicitor I never used, so I became an overstayer without knowing. I have children (TWINS) that are 4 years old and were born in the UK, served three years in the British Territorial Army, wife has been depressed for over 7 years and the social services are involved in helping her and the kids, all documents provided but still got refused

Am really sorry to hear this Socrates and Keisha. They draft the same rubbish on all refusal letters. They told me to call the enforcement team as well with a deadline I didn't. You all have to be strong and fight for your right.

@GodGives, Thanks for your encouragement. So what have you done so far? Reconsideraion/Appeal/JR.