I need your help, desperately please

tasha75 · Post by **tasha75** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:45 am

[quote="Jeff Albright"]
This is what they replied, haven't they? Well, I would argue this back immediately [quote]
Well, i could argue out of principle but my case is now finished (waiting for my passport to be stamped) and what I think I sould do, is to lodge a complaint with OISC or the law society. It seems that immigration consultants do have to be registered with OISC but lawyers not.

tasha75 · Post by **tasha75** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:08 am

Jeff Albright wrote: If the HO did not appeal, you should contact your local POU

Thank you for all your replies, Jeff. No, they did not appeal. Where do I find the address of my local POU? The hearing was at Session House, Surbiton. I tried to google it but with no luck.

You should be capable and confident writing such letters yourself, as no one can advise you on this. If you are not sure what to write, ask your lawyer.

I should be able to write it if I'd known what I have to write. I wanted to know if there are any laws or acts that I could quote in my letter but I suppose a basic letter with all the necessary info will be sufficient.
The representative is in no rush, I was twice asked to call back in 3 weeks.

tasha75 · Post by **tasha75** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:23 am

Twin wrote: The other bit I do not understand is their seven years child concession criteria. As I understand it, regardless of the parents status ie bad immigration record or not, a parent should not be expected to be removed once his/child has accumulated 7 years residency.

That was my understanding as well, but my (current) representative has warned me from the very beginning that I will most likely be unsuccessful under this policy.

Now, as my relationship with the father of my child has broken down, would they expect me still to go back to my country of origin to apply for a spouse visa

But how can you apply for a spouse visa if the relationship is broken? I understand that dad doesn't get involved in the upbringing of the child altogether?
Sorry, I cannot advise you as I have no experience in these matters but I do genuinely feel for you. I know what stress you are under.

Or would they ask that I leave my child with my husband, return to my home country and apply as a person seeking right to be with a British citizen?

I believe you are not allowed to work if you come back in this capacity, and you'll have to prove that you have a place to live and means to support yourself.

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:15 pm

Sorry to jump into this - I've read your posts but might miss some things.

Tasha75 - your partner is an EU national - are you kids also EU nationals? They might be able to acquire his nationality. Have you checked this out?
Also, did you make an application for an EEA permit? It might require you getting married (maybe in your partner's home country), but would mean you can return with a permit valid for 5 years.

Twin - I thought your child is already a British Citizen? If that is the case, can you actually use the 7-year concession? I thought it was for people who were subject to immigration control (including the children).

Jeff - if the above is correct (that her child is a BC), then could she not apply for a visa as the parent of a BC who wishes to have access to the child (as sole guardian)? Because the 7-yr concession would not apply to her?

Just wondering...

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:01 pm

I've jumped in a bit late, but Tasha, if you have been living with your partner for 2 years then you could apply as his dependent, using the EEA forms, even if he has not aquired permanent residency. I am actually trying an application for a client who has been living with his EEA national partner for about 1 year, on the grounds that even though they are not married he is still a family member. Tricky, but it might just work.

The POU for Surbiton is Angel Square I think - either that or Hatton Cross - but if you call the Angel Square number they will help you.

Victoria

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:01 pm

Victoria, it's great to have you aboard this board as well.

Your exerience is appreciated on a couple of queries about the EEA applications-

1)If a non-EEA family member has been granted the Residence Card on the basis of being an unmarried partner, when can the application with the EEA4 be made? 3 years after the Card has been granted after accumulating a total of 5 years or 5 years after the Card as the first 2 years can only be used as proof of co-habitation and is not counted?

2) If while on the Residence Card, they do get married/enter into a Civil partnership, does it reset it all?.. or is it considered as the UK Immigration's unmarried couples rules and not make such a big difference after all?

What are your opinions based on the cases you have handled so far?

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:13 pm

Docterror wrote:Victoria, it's great to have you aboard this board as well.

Thank you!

Docterror wrote:
1)If a non-EEA family member has been granted the Residence Card on the basis of being an unmarried partner, when can the application with the EEA4 be made? 3 years after the Card has been granted after accumulating a total of 5 years or 5 years after the Card as the first 2 years can only be used as proof of co-habitation and is not counted?

The EEA4 application can only be made when the non-EEA national family member has been in the UK for 5 years with the status of dependent of the EEA national. So if, for example, someone has been here as a student, living with the EEA nationa for two years, unfortunately this will not be counted.

Docterror wrote:
2) If while on the Residence Card, they do get married/enter into a Civil partnership, does it reset it all?.. or is it considered as the UK Immigration's unmarried couples rules and not make such a big difference after all?

Hmmm. Good one. I don't have personal experience with this, but as with the UP rules that you mention I doubt that it will make a difference. The non-EEA national will have been here as the family member when they got their residence card, and will not have changed this status, so I don't see how the clock could be reset.

Victoria

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:31 pm

Victoria, thanks for the reply.

VictoriaS wrote:The EEA4 application can only be made when the non-EEA national family member has been in the UK for 5 years with the status of dependent of the EEA national. So if, for example, someone has been here as a student, living with the EEA nationa for two years, unfortunately this will not be counted.

I am sorry, but I don't think that there is any provision that the non-EEA family member has to be a dependant of the EEA national according to the Regulations. All it says is that you have to be a family member and be exercising treaty rights for a continuous period of 5 years.

There have been examples (one in this board) in which spouses who were here in other category (like WP.. or even UP overstaying 6 years!) have been granted PR after proof of exercising treaty rights for 5 years was provided.

The non-EEA national will have been here as the family member when they got their residence card, and will not have changed this status, so I don't see how the clock could be reset.

Tend to agree with you there- even though officially the non-EEA went from being a 'extended family member' to a 'family member'

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:10 pm

Docterror wrote:I am sorry, but I don't think that there is any provision that the non-EEA family member has to be a dependant of the EEA national according to the Regulations. All it says is that you have to be a family member and be exercising treaty rights for a continuous period of 5 years.

Sorry, the use of the word 'dependent' is force of habit. It is meant in the context of dependent on the EEA nationals presence in the UK, not in the context of being financially dependent.

Docterror wrote:
There have been examples (one in this board) in which spouses who were here in other category (like WP.. or even UP overstaying 6 years!) have been granted PR after proof of exercising treaty rights for 5 years was provided.

Interesting. Is this recent? Was there a discretionary element? Sorry, I have not been a regular user of this site for a long time, so I have missed a lot!

Victoria

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:14 pm

No worries! You are more than making up for it today. Pls have a quick look at this OP's experience.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:56 pm

VictoriaS wrote:Sorry, the use of the word 'dependent' is force of habit. It is meant in the context of dependent on the EEA nationals presence in the UK, not in the context of being financially dependent

Ok! so I will substitute the right context and then your reply becomes-

The EEA4 application can only be made when the non-EEA national family member has been in the UK for 5 years with the status of dependent (on the EEA nationals presence in the UK ) of the EEA national. So if, for example, someone has been here as a student, living with the EEA nationa for two years, unfortunately this will not be counted.

Twin · Post by **Twin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:15 pm

Thanks for hijacking my thread Docteror!

The subject here is with regard to the Seven year concession and not EEA spousal visa!

Where is Jeff or John when one needs them?

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:23 pm

Hey! Down on the attitude and sarcasm, Gemini.

My apologies for hijacking the thread.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:25 pm

I am sorry, I thought that Tasha's situation was also being discussed here.

My opinion on your matter is that you can't do anything until a decision has been made on the outstanding application. Only when that comes in can you know how to deal with the appeal. You might be surprised, you might get an approval - from what you have said here your case looks strong to me.

Victoria

Twin · Post by **Twin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:35 pm

VictoriaS wrote:I am sorry, I thought that Tasha's situation was also being discussed here.

My opinion on your matter is that you can't do anything until a decision has been made on the outstanding application. Only when that comes in can you know how to deal with the appeal. You might be surprised, you might get an approval - from what you have said here your case looks strong to me.

Victoria

My post seems to have done the trick then.

I was only trying to get your attention too. You're very much in demand so what better than to take this advantage.

Just before I lose you (you are very scarce around here), do you think the case officers would look at all circumstances surrounding my case and not just refuse me on the fact that my child is not yet seven? And is it true that I wouldn't qualify even if she was 7 as she is a British citizen?

I'm sorry to be asking again as Jeff seem to have answered that question but Sakura raised my doubts again and i thought to get a second opinion.

Twin · Post by **Twin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:38 pm

Docterror wrote:Hey! Down on the attitude and sarcasm, Gemini.

My apologies for hijacking the thread.

Aww...i'm sorry. Just thought to share the limelight too (jokes).

I'm sure your input is helping others who seek advise on a similar ground.

Don't mind me.

Twin · Post by **Twin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:39 pm

...and why do you think my case looks strong, Victoria?

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:49 pm

Quite simply, I think that the compassionate grounds are overwhelming. The Home Office will look at the entirety of the case and make a decision based on everything.

Victoria

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:59 pm

VictoriaS wrote:Quite simply, I think that the compassionate grounds are overwhelming. The Home Office will look at the entirety of the case and make a decision based on everything.

Victoria

Yes I'd agree with that. So would it be DL she'd be awarded, if anything? Which means, with DL you'd wait 5 years before applying for ILR?

But as an immigrationboards.com case law

can peope whose child(ren) is/are already a BC use the 7 year concession, when they have the other (more obvious) option of right of access to a BC child?

Actually I do think she could use the concession, but the application is outside immigration rules and so would take a long time to reply, no? But then it would confer ILR.

Also - it's still related! - when you receive ILR outside immigration rules (i.e. under the 7 yr concession, or as a refugee - though this is rare now), do you wait 12 months or 5 years before you can apply for naturalisation?

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:03 pm

I think she'd get DL, for three years I think is the standard. ILR can be achieved POSSIBLY after 5 years.

I think that people whose children are British can use the 7 argument, but really anyone can use any argument - whether it will work or not is a different matter.

Victoria

Twin · Post by **Twin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:34 pm

Thank you - Sakura and Victoria. I really appreciate your views.

To be honest, i'm not particularly fussy about the category of leave i get as long as it's something that confirms me as legal and enables me to put a stop to my husband cheating our child out of her child benefit and child tax credit which he currently receives. I don't even care if i don't get that money; so long he is stopped from doing so.

Whatever will enable me pick up the pieces of my life, something that would enable me return to my home country and look for my grand mother (I haven't seen her since I was 15!) and for my daughter to meet her grandmother (well...great grand nan); i'll be happy. Finally the insomnia will go away, the stress, the depression! I will no longer have to put up with the bullies at work as I can then return to UNI to finish my degree, finally! I'll be able to move out of this ramshackle they call a flat, perhaps have a settled mind to pursue my goals and aspirations.

I would be eternally grateful!

tasha75 · Post by **tasha75** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:26 am

Twin wrote:Thanks for hijacking my thread Docteror!
The subject here is with regard to the Seven year concession and not EEA spousal visa!

Sorry, probably my fault. I was sharing my experience with the 7 year concession and we got carried away. I'll open a new topic.

Twin · Post by **Twin** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:52 am

tasha75 wrote:
Twin wrote:Thanks for hijacking my thread Docteror!
The subject here is with regard to the Seven year concession and not EEA spousal visa!
Sorry, probably my fault. I was sharing my experience with the 7 year concession and we got carried away. I'll open a new topic.

t

Oh Tasha, please don't mind me. I only made a joke that went flat.

I may have started the thread but it's not mine and your enquiries are still in the frame of the topic being discussed so please feel free to reply and seek advise as you wish.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:57 am

VictoriaS wrote: The POU for Surbiton is Angel Square I think - either that or Hatton Cross - but if you call the Angel Square number they will help you.

Tasha, if you look at the bottom of any letter you received from the Tribunal, it should state the address of the POU that represented BIA at the hearing. You should use that address to address a complaint to them FAO Operations Manager.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:02 am

Twin wrote: Where is Jeff or John when one needs them?

Well, sorry I was away all day yesterday with no access to the Net. Victoria and Docterror have given extremely valuable input and hope answered any of your outstanding queries.

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I need your help, desperately please