EU national taking non-EU spouse to another EU country

[meats]

Hey,

I'm still searching for information about the Netherlands as I need to know everything until the last point. I've contacted the IND and SOLVIT and I got shocked about their income requirements. SOLVIT has written that I need to earn at least 1230 Euros net per month (after tax) excluding holiday allowance in order to be eligible to bring my future spouse to the Netherlands. Please tell me how can I earn 1900 Euros per month? The minimum wage is 1390 Euros per month and it makes only 930 Euros net per month (after tax). Usually such foreigners like me are hired only for the minimum wage and it's hard to find sth better. I'm so much nervous. How to make 1900 Euros per month? Does anybody have an idea? Or maybe I worry without any reason. Maybe it's not that difficult to find a better-paid job than I imagine? Could somebody tell me the salaries of different jobs that are usual to the Netherlands?
SOLVIT also mentioned that the IND will check my future spouse's criminal records. I don't understand criminal records of what? Criminal records that he has in his home country or criminal records outside his country? If he has no criminal records in Schengen area but he would be deported from another third country, would the IND get such information? Or maybe his home country would say that information?

You wouldn't have this problem if you joined your not so law abiding 'partner' in Morocco.

[Wanderer]

Hey,

I'm still searching for information about the Netherlands as I need to know everything until the last point. I've contacted the IND and SOLVIT and I got shocked about their income requirements. SOLVIT has written that I need to earn at least 1230 Euros net per month (after tax) excluding holiday allowance in order to be eligible to bring my future spouse to the Netherlands. Please tell me how can I earn 1900 Euros per month? The minimum wage is 1390 Euros per month and it makes only 930 Euros net per month (after tax). Usually such foreigners like me are hired only for the minimum wage and it's hard to find sth better. I'm so much nervous. How to make 1900 Euros per month? Does anybody have an idea? Or maybe I worry without any reason. Maybe it's not that difficult to find a better-paid job than I imagine? Could somebody tell me the salaries of different jobs that are usual to the Netherlands?
SOLVIT also mentioned that the IND will check my future spouse's criminal records. I don't understand criminal records of what? Criminal records that he has in his home country or criminal records outside his country? If he has no criminal records in Schengen area but he would be deported from another third country, would the IND get such information? Or maybe his home country would say that information?

Get two jobs like many of us have had to do to make ends meet. Do you speak any Dutch?

[Ben]

SOLVIT has written that I need to earn at least 1230 Euros net per month (after tax) excluding holiday allowance in order to be eligible to bring my future spouse to the Netherlands.

There is no such minimum income requirement.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

SOLVIT has written that I need to earn at least 1230 Euros net per month (after tax) excluding holiday allowance in order to be eligible to bring my future spouse to the Netherlands.

There is no such minimum income requirement.

What exact words did solvit use in their reply?

If you are an EU citizen (not from the netherlands) working in the Netherlands then there is no fixed amount of income you require. You can work part time at minimum wage.

If you are claiming to be self sufficient, then they can require you to have some money, but not more than somebody on welfare in the country would get.

[flyboy]

SOLVIT has written that I need to earn at least 1230 Euros net per month (after tax) excluding holiday allowance in order to be eligible to bring my future spouse to the Netherlands.

There is no such minimum income requirement.

Guideline amounts for family formation or reunification, whether Dutch, EU or non EU citizen.

http://www.ind.nl/en/algemeen/begrippen ... dragen.asp

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Guideline amounts for family formation or reunification, whether Dutch, EU or non EU citizen.

http://www.ind.nl/en/algemeen/begrippen ... dragen.asp

This table is not relevant if you are an EU citizen (not from the Netherlands) working in the Netherlands, or the family member of that EU citizen.

[flyboy]

Might be relevant when the OP's partner decides to apply for a residence card. However seeing that minimum wage in the Netherlands is 1398 euros per month, that figure should not pose a problem to the OP.

OP might consider reading through the following link as well:

http://www.ind.nl/EN/verblijfwijzer/ver ... =1&lang=en

[Ben]

Might be relevant when the OP's partner decides to apply for a residence card.

It isn't.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have changed my original reply to be specific that the table is not of relevance for the EU citizen or for any of their EU or non-EU family members.

[Ben]

More Dutch misapplication of EU regs..

Will your work last shorter than 3 months?
A residence endorsement sticker will be inserted in your passport.

No it won't.

Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a
period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to
hold a valid identity card or passport.

And while we're here..

in your passport.

..and if the EU national has no passport?

[flyboy]

I beg to differ, according to the Dutch, that table is relevant to any EU citizen and their EU or non EU family members who for instance would be economically self suffient or a student. As for a paid employee quoting from the link i provided earlier on;

"Paid employment
You are a citizen of the European Union and wish to take on paid employment in the Netherlands.

Conditions for employees:
Individuals are classed as employees if they are expected to carry out real and actual work. This means that the income from employment must be more than 50% of the income requirement that applies to you, or that the number of hours is at least 40% of the employment hours that are usual in the sector in which you work."


The income requirement mentioned there, referring to the table. As for the "at least 40% of employment hours " maybe somebody can shed light on that.

[Obie]

economically non-active
You must submit the following additional documents and documentary evidence together with your application:
– A copy of a document showing that health insurance has been taken out in your name (e.g. an insurance card or health insurance policy)
– Documentary evidence that you have sufficient means of existence to prevent you from becoming a burden on public funds during your stay.
These means may belong to your spouse, registered partner or a third party (e.g. a recent statement from your joint bank account showing your
partner’s income. A recent payslip from your partner will suffice in the case of marriage or a registered partnership).

The minumum sustainance you stated, does not apply to EEA national. I think SOLVIT are getting things a bit confused, if that is what the told the OP of course.

That rule can under no circumstance be applied to EEA nationals

[yustynne]

Hello guys, I've read over your comments. To prove what I'm talking about I can post here the excerpts from the IND and SOLVIT replies.
At first, I've emailed the IND. The excerpt from their first e-mail:
"In case your spouse will stay with you, you need sufficient income to support the both of you. Sufficient income means you need to earn more than 50 % of the minimum income for families in the Netherlands. At the moment the minimum income for families is € 1.230,32 net per month without holiday allowance. Consequently, you need to earn at least € 615, - net per month excluding holiday allowance."
Then I've emailed the IND the second time from another e-mail. This time they have written:
"In case you are registered with the IND as a student or as economically inactive, in addition, we will ask him to provide proof that you have sufficient income to support the both of you. Sufficient income means at least the minimum income for families, currently set at € 1.230,32 net per month excluding holiday allowance."
Finally, I've sent an enquiry to SOLVIT and I've cited to them what the IND has written to me because I was not sure and I wanted to get the correct information. I believed SOLVIT to be competent because they have experts and it is their business to know the procedures under the EU regulations. They have replied to me:
"Unfortunately, officials of the Dutch IND have provided you with mixed information with regards to the income that is required in order to be able to financially provide for a non-EU family member. We can confirm that you will need to earn at least € 1.230,32 net per month without holiday allowance in order to be able to bring over a family member. This is the amount you yourself will need to earn on a steady and regular basis. The € 615 has to do with the average cost of living in the Netherlands per person but is not a threshold in itself."
It is really very confusing. By the way, somebody of you asked if I speak Dutch. I don't speak it but I speak fluent English and I can speak German. I think German is very similar to Dutch so maybe I could learn Dutch quite fast. I know once I go to the NL it will be hard at first but little by little...So what do you think guys? Will I have to search for 2 jobs as to earn 1300 Euros in cash? Well, I think it's a nonsense to put such requirements and to make people work per 2 jobs. I don't know what about the income required in other countries. Let's say in my country Lithuania as to be able to bring over your spouse you need to earn double the minimum wage. As I see the Dutch are doing completely the same policy. So maybe the same requirements are in other countries like Ireland and Sweden (I was also thinking about these countries but still don't have their income requirements). However, for the moment I'm very concentrated on the NL.

[Ben]

Linguistically, the closest language to English is Dutch.

[Obie]

I believed SOLVIT to be competent because they have experts and it is their business to know the procedures under the EU regulations. They have replied to me:
"Unfortunately, officials of the Dutch IND have provided you with mixed information with regards to the income that is required in order to be able to financially provide for a non-EU family member. We can confirm that you will need to earn at least € 1.230,32 net per month without holiday allowance in order to be able to bring over a family member. This is the amount you yourself will need to earn on a steady and regular basis. The € 615 has to do with the average cost of living in the Netherlands per person but is not a threshold in itself."

This is clearly wrong. Under community law, if you are an EEA national in Employment, undertaking a genuine and effective economic activity, even if your income is not sufficient enough, you and your family members benefit from freedom of movement.

See this Case Law against the Dutch which confirms this. They cannot say you need to have a certain income level, before you can sponsor your partner. It is rubbish and illegal.

For Self sufficiency, however there is a grey area. There seems to be two contradictory statement, so they might stipulate the amount they expect you to have in order to qualify.

Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as "sufficient resources",
but they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned. In all cases this
amount shall not be higher than the threshold below which nationals of the host Member State
become eligible for social assistance, or, where this criterion is not applicable, higher than the
minimum social security pension paid by the host Member State.

So what do you think guys? Will I have to search for 2 jobs as to earn 1300 Euros in cash? Well, I think it's a nonsense to put such requirements and to make people work per 2 jobs. I don't know what about the income required in other countries. Let's say in my country Lithuania as to be able to bring over your spouse you need to earn double the minimum wage. As I see the Dutch are doing completely the same policy. So maybe the same requirements are in other countries like Ireland and Sweden (I was also thinking about these countries but still don't have their income requirements). However, for the moment I'm very concentrated on the NL.

There is no need to get two jobs. One is perfectly fine, and if the income you get is low, the memberstate are obliged to supplement your income without it affecting your residency as stated in the ECJ ruling i mentioned above.

If you are claiming to be exercising your treaty rights as a Self Sufficient, then they might impose those threshold for you. If however you are a worker, then SOLIT are wrong to say you need to have a certain income level to qualify

[yustynne]

Then i see SOLVIT enjoys providing people with misleading information. I've also read TracyCK posts and found out that SOLVIT caused her problems by giving false information, too.

I'd like to share with you some sentences from http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html

Union citizens, who have exercised their right to move and reside freely and moved to the host Member State, are therefore entitled to be accompanied or joined by their family members, irrespective of nationality[1].
[1] However, this right is not granted to those family members, where they do not accompany or join a Union citizen, i.e. by travelling on their own while the Union citizen stays at home.

I don't clearly understand the second part of it and so it makes me doubting. As it is stated family members, irrespective of nationality, can accompany or join an EU citizen. What does it mean that this right is not granted if family members travel on their own while the EU citizen stays at home? For the moment i'm thinking about the situation we'll have with my future spouse while applying for a facilitating short stay visa to join me in the NL. As you might know the NL doesn't have a special spouse visa to join the EU citizen in a member state. Instead my future spouse will have to apply for a short stay visa which is not so much common to apply for such purpose. As the purpose of this short stay visa will be to join the EU spouse in the NL i don't understand how we have to apply and how he has to enter the NL. Will he have to be present to the Dutch embassy in Rabat alone or will i have to come to apply together? When he receives a visa, will he have to enter the NL alone and i'll be waiting for him in the NL or will we have to enter the NL together? As it is written this right is not granted for family members when EU citizen stays at home. Well, i hope you'll help me to understand this procedure because i'm not sure how it is better to do: 1) that my future spouse would apply at embassy and enter alone while i sit in the NL or 2) that he would apply alone at embassy but we would enter together the NL or 3) that we would apply together at embassy and enter together the NL? And if doing any of these will the purpose of visa stay the same (for example, to join an EU spouse or to accompany an EU spouse)? As i understand the purpose to accompany the EU citizen means that we'll have to submit at embassy a tickets reservation on our both names forth and back and the officials will expect us to come back to Morocco. While the purpose to join an EU spouse means my future spouse will stay with me in the NL. Is it right?

Hope to get some comments which would help me to understand this stream of information.

[Ben]

yustynne, you are overcomplicating what is actually very simple. Your questions and the answers to them are all in your same post.

Put simply, as a Lithuanian citizen (iirc?), you have the right to enter Holland for up to three months, no strings attached. Your husband has the right to accompany or join you. This means, you can go together (him accompanying you) - or you can go there first (him joining you later).

Either way (especially if entering Holland from outside the EEA), he should get an entry visa first, from the Dutch mission nearest to his place of residence.

[yustynne]

Yeah, all what i'm writing about is an entry visa. This is the biggest concern for both me and my future spouse as we want to do everything as it must be. For sure at first i'll go to work to the NL alone for some time say a half year or more and then i want my future spouse would join me. I'd like to know whether i'll need to take holidays out of work and go to Morocco as my future spouse and me could be present together at embassy with all needed documents for an entry visa application. Somehow i think that it's better that an official would see both of us in case he needs to take interview to make sure our relationship is ok or for sth else. Or when my future spouse applies for an entry visa with the purpose of joining me, i must stay in the NL?

[yustynne]

Has anybody applied for a Schengen visa under EU regulations from outside the Europe? How long does it take to get?