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who are interested in protest against changes of 4-5

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morerightsformigrants
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Post by morerightsformigrants » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:31 pm

i have sent e-mails to my mp got a reply today from his secretary saying that he's away and she will let him know asap when he gets bk.

i have also sent a complaint email to IND ......still waiting for a reply

i'll let you guys know as soon as they reply.

moorthi
Newly Registered
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:49 am

Indefinite Leave to Remain changes from 4y to 5y

Post by moorthi » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:10 am

I am also very nearer to 4 years qualifying period for ILR. But Mr. Clark has implementing new change from 4 to 5 on april 3rd. It is NOT FAIR. He would have implement this change for those who are coming to uk on work permit from april 3rd 2006.

I am also supporting those who are against to this change.

moorthi
Newly Registered
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who are interested in protest against 4-5

Post by moorthi » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:17 am

Please count me in '4 NOT 5' MOVEMENT

sam1000s
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:58 am

Post by sam1000s » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:49 pm

Include me on the list...please

I'm ready for all sort of contributions from my side...

supertiger
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:14 pm

Post by supertiger » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:40 pm

I wrote to my MP and some relevant organisations got a reply from Immigration Law Practioners' Association yesterday, you can keep sending them emails checking progress...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "info" <info@ilpa.org.uk>
Subject: RE: Recent policy change on ILR
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:25:40 -0000


dear

ILPA has written to the minister about the changes and the way they are being made. Please see the March ILPA mailing which should reach you on Monday/tuesday.
We are also holding some training on March 30. Please see Training Programme on ILPA website.

ILPA
*****************

bright
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:12 pm

i am in

Post by bright » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:14 pm

Pls add me too.

sissy
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:14 pm

I am in.

Post by sissy » Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:18 pm

I am in.

VJKNC
Newly Registered
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:21 pm

Pls. add me in

Post by VJKNC » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:25 pm

Hi, I am with you all to protest against this crazy law!!! I wld have applied for ILR on 6th July 2006. Pls. let me know if any contributions from my end is required.

Cheers,
VJ-

RobinLondon
Member of Standing
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: SE London

My interactions with my MP/Home Office

Post by RobinLondon » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:03 pm

Hi there-

When the proposed changes to the immigration rules were made last year, I sent the following letter to my MP, Tessa Jowell (Southwark):

[b](09 February 2005)[/b]

Dear Ms Jowell,

I am a Canadian national currently in my second year of living and working in the UK. I am able to do so through the UK ancestry scheme in which Commonwealth citizens with a UK grandparent are allowed to work in the UK for for years, after which they may apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR).

Following the provisions announced by the Home Secretary yesterday, I have two questions. The first is whether the provision for UK ancestry will now be abolished subject to the Government's intention to initiate a "four-tier" system of vetting migrants. Secondly, as I have been allowed into the country under the previous rules of four years' working allowing one to apply for ILR, will I now have to wait until I complete five years as put forth by the Home Secretary? This creates a strange situation, as I would now have to apply for an additional one year's leave (at £335) only to apply the following year for ILR (at another £335 or more).

Please do let me know if (1) the provisions of the UK ancestry scheme are intended by this Government to continue and (2) if the rules under which one previously entered the country will continue to apply to applicants already in the process leading to settlement.

Thank you very much for your assistance

Yours sincerely, (etc)...
Last edited by RobinLondon on Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grshankar
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:21 pm

Protest on the issue of ILR Change from 4 to 5

Post by grshankar » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:36 pm

I am dead against to this Crazy law. I am getting doubt that tomorrow they changes 6 years or 7 years and they do not have standard policies and it has to apply from people who entered into UK Recently. At the time of our entry this rule is for four years and it should applied to us. Even change of syllabus in university or college will give a time and make prior notice and it will not applicable to old one who had already studied. Like that why can’t these people apply to those who entered into UK recently and not for this who already entered to UK and going to get there ILR with one to two months.

I support to those who are against to this law. My example is quite better enough to know their mistake that the rule will not apply to all.

VJKNC
Newly Registered
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:21 pm

Letter to MP

Post by VJKNC » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:31 pm

Hi All, I have mailed my MP yesterday and expecting a reply in retun. I shall keep you all updated.

Cheers,
VJ-

tutu1005
Newbie
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:11 pm

great news

Post by tutu1005 » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:10 pm

Really good news and great progress from another forum. One of member has met solicitor today and please find the following information.

Time: 12:00~13:00 Tue, 28 Mar. 06
Attendee: Louis, G******y
Topic: Legal Advising about extending ILR qualifying years from 4 to 5

Minutes:
1. Mr G******y H*****g is the senior immigration caseworker of Barnet Law Centre. Before working for law centre, he was a charted barrister. Barnet Law Centre is part of community legal service sponsored by Barnet council.
2. By English law, any new policy/law must be reviewed and consulted by public. As far as the adviser knew, many immigration organizations expressed serious concerns about the changes but Home Office still decided to push the 4->5 regardless any critics. “The home office consulted us because they had to do so by law, but they never listen actually”. There is no way to make them change minds in fact.
3. Home Office has to sustain themselves by income from passport application fees and visa application fees, so they intend to enlarge qualifying period to make more money from that. Many unexposed reasons/trade-offs make immigrants harder.
4. Immigration law is particularly unfair part in whole English law, because only affected persons are immigrants…
5. The deadline of suing is within 3 months after refused decision made from Home Office.
6. If any person wins in Court, this case can be directly applied to others with similar situation. (One wins, all wins)
7. Non-retrospective is a major principle in English law. If the barrister can prove the change is retrospective, he/she will definitely win in the court. But Home Office can argue that the application for ILR is a different application for work permit/HSMP, so the 4 to 5 years change to current WP/HSMP holders is not retrospective at all. Only judge can make the final decision.
8. Louis got an immigrant-specific solicitor’s phone number and would try to have a talk with them then.

tutu1005
Newbie
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:11 pm

Post by tutu1005 » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:12 pm

Everyone please make sure you email me if you think you want to support us!! tutuwang1005@yahoo.com(if you have any concern about why I am collecting email addresses, please refer to posts before). I have got a few responses and group emails have been sent out several times. (sorry for those new supporters, I have not been able to update your recrods yet so you might not have received any group email yet. I will try my best to do it by the end of this week) if we can do it before 3rd July which means everyone will win!! No one have to suffer from unfairness. It is not the time to hesitate!! We need you for sure!!

a11
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: London

Post by a11 » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:25 pm

I am with you guys and I have emailed my MP and got some other people to do it as well.

I'll ask tutu1005 to add me to his mailing list, but I think that bringing a lawsuit against the Home Office is quite a risky business, because legally there isn't too much to argue against.

The HO did not give WP holders any promises (although they kind of did for HSMP's). And moreover, if we lose the case, the HO will 'wash their hands' of it and that's it.

I would wait a little bit longer for MPs replies. Let's see, maybe the deal can be sorted out in a less confrontational and more efficient way.
In the meanwhile we should of course talk to solicitors and think of the best ways to bring the case to the court, but also what is badly needed right now is the coverage in mass media.

Because really, there hasn't been any so far.
The one in The Times is of course fair enough, but 1) it was just a reader's letter and 2) it did not mention the 'retroactive' thing at all.
So perhaps we should start bombarding BBC, The Guardian etc. with our letters.

The people from ITV are going to be at the place where I work tomorrow, so I'll make sure they hear about the situation.

indian_in_uk
Member
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:54 pm
Location: London

Post by indian_in_uk » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:34 pm

I have emailed BBC, Times, Guardian, Metro and no response from their side yet.. :(
I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star.

morerightsformigrants
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Post by morerightsformigrants » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:27 pm

read this

http://warnerpride.co.uk/news.php?id=8

i have sent an e-mail to christine lee, she's a lot of experience dealing with HO still waiting for her reply

this is her website if you want to contact her as well http://www.christine-lee.co.uk/index.htm

Filimon
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:00 pm

Post by Filimon » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:48 am

there is an online petition against the retrospective rule

http://www.petitiononline.com/ILR45/petition.html

morerightsformigrants
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Post by morerightsformigrants » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:06 am

Meeting with Home Office Immigration Minister Mr Tony McNulty MP
14th March 2006 10:45am - 11:25am


We raised the issues of skilled chefs within the new points system expressed in the Command Paper CM6741 issued on 7 March 2006.

The issues were raised that chefs are unlikely to have any formal qualifications and we handed to the minister a copy of the Magazine “Caterer & Hotel Keeper” which has a job advertising section and the practical evidence is that chefs are paid between £15 to £18k per annum.

The Minister said that he recognises Chefs are not specifically addressed in the Command Paper and that it would be wrong to have a system that excludes the ethnic cuisine chefs.

The Minister then said that there will be a Skills Advisory Board – specific to each sector and for each region and we should be consulted on the issues of experience and remuneration levels with them whether it is considered as a shortage occupation. The new system is likely to roll out by 2008, with Tier 1 perhaps earlier and Tier 2 by the end of 2007/beginning of 2008.

We expressed that with the abolition of the Sector Based Scheme, the low skilled workers category is now fraught with problems. The Minister acknowledged that and said we should be talking to his team to address the issues of remunerations, qualifications and shortage occupations.

We also raised concerns of the A list and B list of employers as sponsors which suggests bias to the bigger established employers.

The Minister explained that for the new business to the work permit system, then if approved as sponsor, will always be on the A list subject to a ‘probation’ period of 12 months. Existing employers known to the system (with work permits) with good records will automatically be granted ‘A’ list sponsors. However if any employer proved to be unsatisfactory then they will be ‘demoted’ to the ‘B’ list. If you are a new employer with satisfactory records after 12 months, you will remain in the ‘A’ list. The details of the sponsorship application will be out by autumn 2006 with an 18 month roll out programme.

In the meantime, the current system remains and we should address the issues of low skilled workers with his team. The new system requires training of the UK Visas post which has started as they will effectively be making has started as they will effectively be making one decision. The Minister stated he recognises the current problem of getting a work permit but refuse on overseas visas and vice versa.

We further pressed our concern of low skilled workers (tier 3) who are essential to successful operations of the ethnic catering business. The minister protested hat he did not say Polish workers could take over these positions. He understood the issues but will reply on the SAB in the new system which will come into force by 2008 but before that we should talk to his team.

We raised the issue that the ethnic community should be able to apply to be on the new Skills Advisory Board that is currently appointed as the Sector Skills Development Agency by the Secretary of State of Education and Skills. The Minister did not answer this directly but said we should talk to his team and the 25 regional skills council which his team will give us a list of.

The minister further confirmed that under the new scheme Tier 3 (low skilled workers) will be able to be granted one year and on application renewed to a second year.

We also raised the issue of the raising of the time spent to 5 years before qualified to apply for settlement (indefinite leave to remain). This new announcement made yesterday (13/03/06) brings into effect of this new higher criteria on 3/4/06 for everyone including those who come to the UK prior to the 5 year strategy was published by the HO in February 2005.

We raised the serious concerns of workers who have updated their livelihood and family a few years ago and planned for settlement in 4 years in the UK having integrated themselves for the past, 18 months, 2 or 3 years only now to be told they can’t apply for settlement until a further year on a visa.

The Minister stated that there is no need to consult on this change of rules. The Government has decided on this and it will be brought in. We raised the issue that a number of our own clients when first applied to come to the UK on a work permit have planned their lives based on getting settlement after 4 years. The fact that they want to be integrated fully with the UK community was the reasons why they uprooted their family and life from Hong Kong. They are not able to get a mortgage until they have Indefinite Leave to Remain. Their children are not considered as ‘home students’ even after 4 years in the UK until they have been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain. Their education (going to University) will now have to be put on hold for a further year (unless they pay the overseas fees) because the Government decided that it was a good idea.

We put this to the Minister in the strongest possible term as unfair on persons who has already come to the UK to work and invest in business for the last 3 years and this rule should not be applied retrospectively to them. However the Minister stated that there is no good time to do this and it is unfair to new comers who have to wait 5 years to qualify for settlement whereby persons came before are on 4 years?? We just do not comprehend this argument. The Minister stated the Government’s wish to bring in-line the norm under EU legislation of 5 years before settlement.

We also put forward the issue that this change may deter future applicants because they can see if they come to work for 5 years, the rules may be changed at any time and they may not qualify after 5 years. It could be changed to 7 years lets say. The Minister made the point that the Government could bring it down to 3 years, although he immediately said they won’t. This is clear indication that the bringing into line with EU practice is a red herring.

There is no legislative problem in bringing in the new rules without affecting existing workers or investors. The message sent out to the public is that migrant workers are not welcomed. This is why we need to have strong safeguards in this new Bill. That the both Houses ought to have the opportunities to debate the details of the new point systems before rolling out the programme.

interesting don't u think?

a11
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: London

Post by a11 » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:08 am

Great, guys....
This country loves us, doesn't it?
Maybe we should just go elsewhere and see how they cope? :))

gidget
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:13 am
Location: London

Post by gidget » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:40 pm

Include me too.

morerightsformigrants
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Post by morerightsformigrants » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:13 pm

Dear All,



I now have a confirmed conference meeting for all who are interested in helping us to campaign against the government plans to change the current qualifying period for settlement from 4 years to 5 years.



I am very concerned about the new 5 year qualifying period for indefinite leave to remain. I feel it is unfair to all those who are existing employment related category visa holders since they were under the impression that they were eligible to apply for indefinite leave to remain after 4 years. They have planned the lives and their family’s lives around this and as a result they are anxious about the changes and its effects on them. Naturally they are very confused and upset. I genuinely feel that the new law should not be applied retrospectively but rather that the old rules should apply to this category of people instead.



If anyone should have the same concerns please come to our conference where we will address the issue in more detail and will explain the course of action we propose to take.



Please pass the message on to anyone else who is interested.



Saturday 8th April – 2pm

Oriental City

Cultural Room, 2nd Floor

299 Edgware Road

NW9 0JJ



Yours sincerely,

this is event is going to be host by Christine Lee & Co. is the largest ethnic Chinese law firm in the UK with international reputation.
if you want to know more about her please visit http://www.christine-lee.co.uk/index.htm

i'll see you all there..... together we won't be defeated.

timefactor
Member of Standing
Posts: 271
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:46 am
Location: london-UK

Post by timefactor » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:40 am

Full support and best wishes. Will try to attend, though bit far away.

supertiger
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:14 pm

Post by supertiger » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:48 am

morerightsformigrants, do you have a meeting agenda for next Sat Orient city can post here?

morerightsformigrants
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Post by morerightsformigrants » Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:40 pm

sorry mate can't help with the agenda but if you have any questions regarding the meeting you can send an e-mail to Ann.Lee@Christine-Lee.co.uk she will be able to help you.

thanks please try to pass on the message ... we need as much support as possible.

http://www.christine-lee.co.uk/index.htm visit her webiste as well if you want to find out more information.

morerightsformigrants
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Post by morerightsformigrants » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:36 am

i just got this from another forum:

Here is part of a new letter from Tony McNulty MP,
Minister for Immigration, Asylum, Nationality

"Changes in the settlement rules

You have raised a number of points in your letter, which I will deal with in turn. I understand that you raised these points with Baroness Ashton at the time of the passage through the House of Lords of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Bill, You will understand, therefore, if I reply in similar terms,

You state that the Chinese community was not consulted over the move to the five year qualification period and that the change is retrospective, The change in the minimum qualifying period for settlement was announced by the Government in February 2005 in its paper ontrolling Our Borders: the Five Year Strategy for Asylum and Immigration? We consulted extensively on many of the new elements Contained in that paper, principally the points- based system. in the period between February 2005 and now - the time of the actual rules change - the Government has not received any views on the change in the qualifying period for settlement.

This is possibly because the change does not affect anyone right to remain and work in the UK; anyone with valid leave to remain and who is continuing in employment will qualify to remain as before and should have no difficulty in completing the fifth year. If their employment were about to cease after four years they would not qualify for settlement anyway. It is therefore difficult to accept the argument that a particular group's immigration position is being worsened or made less secure by this measure.

You also mention the effect that this change will have on Chinese nationals who are in the United Kingdom for business purposes. I am sorry to hear that you feel that this will have a hard effect on those members of the Chinese community who are here for work-related reasons. I have explained above

that this change does not affect anyone's right to stay in the UK and to follow their chosen employment or way of earning a living. The UK welcomes those people still. We do not believe that anyone is being unfairly required to change things like remaining in employment or the number of visits to relatives as a result of this. We believe that this change is also of benefit to those arriving in the UK as entrepreneurs or to set up in business. A 5-year qualifying period leads to a pattern of leave being granted of 2-years followed by 3 years. This will be of benefit to those setting up in business or entering as investors, innovators and in a self-employed capacity where a 2-year inital leave period for establishing oneself is more realistic.

I am sorry that you feel that this is a surprise change and that it will affect the plans of the Chinese people working here. I do not share this view. Nobody s being asked to change the amount of work that they do or to change how they make their living. We would not grant settlement to someone who had no likelihood of continuing to earn their living as they had before.

You also mention the effect that this might have on things such as Chinese people applying for a mortgage or for admission to university. I have sympathy for anyone who has difficulty in getting a mortgage and I acknowledge that it can be a stressful endeavour, but the lending policy of banks and building societies is a matter for those individual organisations. It is not something that can be directed by Government. Similarly, although local authorities have a residence policy when it comes to education there is no substantial change in the way that university places are allocated as a result of our change. Nevertheless, we are ready to listen to you about any unintended hardships that are directly instigated by this change but for most areas of life, if not all, things will simply continue as usual.

You raise the issue of whether this will be seen as a welcome or unwelcome signal to potential newcomers. I have explained that we think that this change will be of benefit to those arriving in the UK to set up in business or carry out investment activity. The UK is one of the most welcoming environments internationally for those seeking to set up in self-employment.

Finally, you point out that EU Directives do not prevent a member state granting settlement after 4 years. This is true but the Government does not feel that there are any benefits to be had by maintaining a different provision for EU nationals in the UK than applies elsewhere in the EU. There is a great deal of sense in being in line with other partners where this is possible. Once this is accepted, then the UK is left with applying the same to all nationals, EU and non-EU, or having a system with one qualifying period for EU nationals and a separate one for non-EU nationals. This would be undesirable and it is not something that we want.

The UK is committed to being an attractive destination for hard working and skilled people. Indeed, we have acknowledged frequently the great benefits that migrant groups bring to this country. These changes do not alter that view, but we are equally committed to settlement as one of the later stages in a journey towards attachment and integration into the UK."


It seems that the minisiter is expressing some degree of willingness to LISTEN. Everyone affected must gather their cases this Sat at the public meeting. Christine Lee will be meeting the Home Office officials on the 10th with the evidence.



Saturday 8th April – 2pm

Oriental City

Cultural Room, 2nd Floor

299 Edgware Road

NW9 0JJ

本文章由 joseph.DJ@558.net于 3 Apr 2006, 14:09 重新编辑过

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