5 years for ILR rule implemented

[tarzan]

Me and a friend of mine had emailed them. I dont know if anyone else did. We were hoping to use their celebrity status to bring attention from newspapers but from a reporters point of view i guess our cause is not yet ugly enough as iraq war or cash for peerages:)

[Hidden dragon]

This might be ok?

The Petition Against the Retrospective Implementation of the 4-to-5 Qualifying Year Change in ILR Rules"

or
The Petition Against the Retrospective Implementation of the 4-to-5 Year rule Change in ILR"

I think the second one
"The Petition Against the Retrospective Implementation of the 4-to-5 Year Rule Change in ILR" is good!

[aj77]

That's really encouraging

Hello Friends,

I had already informed that shadow home secretary of conservatives Mr Damian Green MP, had agreed that the retrospective nature of these changes is unjust and conservatives will be opposing this element of the changes.

Now, shadow home secretary of Liberals Mr Nick Clegg MP, sent me a message saying in short that they find it unjust too, and they will act accordingly in parliament in order to change this

Hidden Dragon,is it possible if Christine Lee could contact them on telephone and say thanks for supporting ?
I mean we need one personality who could talk to them or meet them personally.You can explain your voint of view effectively while talking with someone elso face to face.

I think the second one
"The Petition Against the Retrospective Implementation of the 4-to-5 Year Rule Change in ILR" is good!

Yeah it's OK

[nonothing]

so we've got two replies from Mr. Clegg!
nonothing, good reason to update your records.
btw, don't forget about those three MP's who already signed EDM 1912, even though we don't know who actually got in touch with them.

got it, it's done. cheers, mate.

[andhraguy]

Hi Guys ,

Great work .. Keep Going.

I think we should send thanking email / fax messages to Mr Clegg & Mr.Green for understanding our concerns and supporting us.Would appreciate if anyone can provide their email / fax numbers.

One good reason to cast my vote to Lib Dem / Conservatve on May 4th counsil polls

Thanks,

[Hidden dragon]

These are encouraging signs. These letters, at least proved that the HO's change of rule (especially its retrospective nature) is controversial!

Another way to see the problem is to look at the process through which the change of the rule has been brought out. Then there is the RIAs issue.

The HO did not do RIA (Regulatory Impact Assessment). It did not comply with the Goverment's own regulation for changing policies. Read on and please give us a professional opinion if you can.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

According to the Cabinet Office website (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulat ... ds_ria.asp), “RIAs must be completed for all policy changes, whether European or domestic, which could affect the public or private sectors, charities, the voluntary sector or small businesses.” It was also stated on the same website (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulat ... #whatisria), that: “Once the policy decision has been made, the responsible minister must sign a final RIA to state that 'I have read the Regulatory Impact Assessment and I am satisfied that the benefits justify the costs'.” It was also stated (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulat ... rt_ria.asp ) that “A final RIA must be laid in the House alongside legislation and published on your department's website whether or not there will be legislation. You will not secure collective ministerial agreement to proceed without an adequate RIA.”

However, according to the Explanatory Memorandum to the Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules Laid on 30 March 2006 (HC 1016): (http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... dum10.html), no RIA was prepared at all. It was said that “A Regulatory Impact Assessment has not been prepared for this Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules as it has no impact on business, charities or voluntary bodies”.

I think you might have noticed this and I wonder if this is useful for both the EDM and Lobbying approaches.

More details:

(A) RIA is based on five Principles of Good Regulation (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulat ... #whatisria ):

proportionate - to the risk
accountable - to ministers and Parliament, to users and the public
consistent - predictable, so that people know where they stand
transparent - open, simple and user-friendly
targeted - focused on the problem, with minimal side effects
I think the process of bringing about the changes HC974 and HC1016 failed 3 of them:

It is not proportionate. The immigration problem in this country is about illegal immigrants. Penalizing law abiding and tax paying skilled immigrants is not the solution at all!

It is not accountable. The ministers have not signed the RIA. There even wasn’t a RIA at all! So they are not accountable. Little has been done to do public consultation, so the public is not accountable!

It is not consistent. It retrospectiveness shows that the government has no intention to keep its promise to skilled immigrants and therefore make them don’t know where they stand at all!

( It was stated on http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulat ... ds_ria.asp that:

You do not need to do an RIA for:

proposals that impose no costs or no savings, or negligible costs or savings on the public, private or charities and voluntary sector
increases in statutory fees by a predetermined formula such as the rate of inflation road closure orders

I think neither HC974 nor HC1016 meets any of the criteria above. The quality of RIAs is regularly scrutinised by the Better Regulation Task Force and the National Audit Office (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulat ... #whatisria ). This could offer another avenue.

Furthermore, we perhaps need to prepare a strong article, ideally written by a professional in law. In case the lobbying and EDM both fail. We should not hesitate to publish it onto a national paper!

AT THIS MOMENT, I WILL HOLD THE FIRE FOR THE SAKE OF THE LOBBYING EFFORT!

[morerightsformigrants]

my mp David Heath from Lib Democrat said that he will raise the issue with the HO and told me that he'll be signing the EMD i have just sent him a new e-mail with the new EMD so hopefully he will be signing it soon.

by the way guys does anyone belongs to any community groups..
i have been contacting friends and relatives to make them sign the petitions but i think in order to get more people involve we need to target their community leaders...

so we've got two replies from Mr. Clegg!
nonothing, good reason to update your records.
btw, don't forget about those three MP's who already signed EDM 1912, even though we don't know who actually got in touch with them.

[nonothing]

“A final RIA must be laid in the House alongside legislation and published on your department's website whether or not there will be legislation. You will not secure collective ministerial agreement to proceed without an adequate RIA.”

for me, it's an important discover. well done, hd.

[gaurav]

Well done hiddendragoan and nonothing for your proactive approach...

[Hidden dragon]

my mp David Heath from Lib Democrat said that he will raise the issue with the HO and told me that he'll be signing the EMD i have just sent him a new e-mail with the new EMD so hopefully he will be signing it soon.

by the way guys does anyone belongs to any community groups..
i have been contacting friends and relatives to make them sign the petitions but i think in order to get more people involve we need to target their community leaders...

so we've got two replies from Mr. Clegg!
nonothing, good reason to update your records.
btw, don't forget about those three MP's who already signed EDM 1912, even though we don't know who actually got in touch with them.

Excellent! I think by this rate, we will definitely get more than 3 signatures on the new EDM.

In terms of community Leaders, I think you are absolutely right too!

[timefactor]

another EDM 1989 by Mitchell, Austin "TREATMENT OF TRAINEE DOCTORS FROM COMMONWEALTH AND FORMER COMMONWEALTH COUNTRIES" collected 8 signatures

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetai ... ESSION=875

May be EDM1912 is not self explanatory enough to attract more signatures

[tutu1005]

Really encouraging news for all of us!! Please read the following !!

Dear Ashly,

I am writing to you, to inform you that the Arabic community, actually my husband Omar Massoud, has received a promising response from Nick Clegg, the LibDems' Shadow Home Secretary.

It's certainly encouraging to know that someone is listening, that the efforts are starting to bear fruit, and that some action is being taken. But I believe it is more reason why we should intensify our efforts and "raise our voice" in the crucial coming few days - it seems like a real chance.

I quote from Clegg抯 email:

揟hank you for contacting me regarding the changes to immigration rules (House of Commons Paper 974, replaced by HC1016) including changes to the qualifying period for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR).

I am concerned that this situation is unfair to those already in this country who have made plans on the reasonable assumption that the qualifying period would not change, and unnecessarily prejudices those skilled immigrants who contribute significantly to this country and its economy. We feel that the Home Office has not given sufficient notice of these changes and that if they were justified; they should apply only to those entering the country now, and not retrospectively.

To this end we have laid a motion against these changes which we hope to debate in committee before the deadline as stipulated by parliamentary procedure (we anticipate this will be in the next month).

I will write to you again when the outcome of the committee is known.

Thank you for raising this vital issue with me.

Yours sincerely?/FONT>


In addition to Clegg, we sent objection emails including links to online petitions to the following Ministers and MPs

David Davis, Shadow home Secretary, Conservatives
Damian Green, Shadow Immigration Minister, Conservatives
Lynne Featherstone, Spokesperson for Home Affairs and London, Liberal Democrats
Mark Hunter, Spokesperson for Home Affairs, Liberal Democrats

A copy of an email to a Shadow Minister is included at the end of this email and here is a link set up by the Turkish community, where one enters name and address, presses a button, and an email to his/her MP is generated and sent automatically.

http://btcd.turkish-network.org/c.asp?sid=72515D4350


It is time to unite all our efforts to inform anyone harmed by the application of the new rules; collect signatures for our petitions; write to Shadow Ministers; write to our MPs; and finally write to the Government (Charles Clarke in particular).

All the best,
Inas Ismail

This post has been edited by tutu1005 on 21 Apr 2006, 9:09

[tobiashomer]

just to report that I have sent a lot of emails to "my" MP, Emily thornberry (lab), Islington S and Finsbury, who answered in rather non-cmmittal terms and sent an equally vague note to the Home Secretary saying I had a problem with the new rules.

anyone else in her constituency? she seems well-intentioned but may think it is just bothering one cranky yank.

[olisun]

received a promising response from Nick Clegg, the LibDems' Shadow Home Secretary.

didn't the lib dem. along with the tories made immigration as a issue in the last general elections?

[slor]

A second early-day motion has been placed by Menzies Campbell, leader of the Lib Dems… could this actually come to a proper hearing? http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetai ... ESSION=875

[timefactor]

Mitchell, Austin has not signed on this

A second early-day motion has been placed by Menzies Campbell, leader of the Lib Dems… could this actually come to a proper hearing? http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetai ... ESSION=875

[tobiashomer]

What about the firms that act as Immigration Advisors? I am sure many of us have made use of their services at one time or another. I am writing to the one I have had contact with (and had planned to use for applying for ILR this December), asking that they tell their contacts at HO/WPUK and beyond of the groundswell of resentment this is causing.

The ones I know of include

Jones Kelleher
workpermit.com
Gherson
visaconnection.co.uk

and there are dozens of others listed at
http://www.oisc.gov.uk/adviser-finder/0 ... finder.asp

every little bit of noise will help--maybe someone cleverer than I am at that sort of thing could organise a mailing to all the advisers on the list (for-profit and non-profit)?

[easylife4me]

Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules HC 1053
I am here: Home > News > Press releases and announcements > Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules HC 1053

21 April 2006

A new Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules, House of Commons Paper 1053, was laid before Parliament on 20 April 2006 under section 3 (2) of the Immigration Act 1971. The change in this document takes effect on 30 April 2006. An Explanatory Memorandum accompanies this document.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... ges12.html

[olisun]

The damn site is so slow... looks like they have hosted their site on 10 yr old machine which has been kept in one of the employee's garage

[tvt]

The staement of changes only deals with issues relating to EEA citizens and their family members.

[a11]

nonthing, you can add the following person to the list

Hands, Mr Greg Con
Hammersmith & Fulham

promised to take the matter further (letters to HO & debates)

[tarzan]

Hi,
we went to speak with Gareth Thomas MP for harrow west, he is also
Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for International Development .
our arguments were based on:
-1. nobody knew about these changes.

-2. when we heard about the plans nobody assumed that it will have an
adverse effect like this to be applied retrospectively

-3. in home office replies to many queries, they also conradict and
accept as:
a- there is no retrospective element ...
b- there is retrospective element but the effects are assumed to be
insignificant
c- UK never passes retrospective rules, it is only applicable from the
date it is valid (well it is valid to the existing ones, not the ones
to come from that date...)

-4. everybody with common sense, including the leaders and shadow
ministers of liberals and conservatives accept that the retrospective
element is unjust and should be corrected.

-5. we are not against points based system, we ARE the ones that would
support most this system, as long as we are informed about the plans
and our contributions are sought genuinely.

-6. we have been very careful in the way to approach and explain
ourselves, we do not want bad publicity to annoy the government and
people who have been working on this, we just want a fine tune, a
correction before it becomes too late.

-7. there are many groups working in coordination thousands of emails,
petitions are being collected.

Mr Thomas strongly suggested that:
1- everyone should write to their local MP's, ALSO mentioning their
support for the changes introducing Points based system overall, but "the retrospective element to be abolished"

2- as specific reasons why is this cousing us trouble, we should
mention the current and possible hardships that each one would have if
the changes are applied, such as:

*it gets almost impossible to get a mortgage without ILR, lenders wont
offer the same rates.
*we can not study further in universities with home student rates, we
will still need to pay foreign student fees.

we need to find much more cases as above and write a new letter
including these.
I expect your feedback.

[aj77]

Sowhat wrote:

The Under Secretary also added that
Quote:
"Nevertheless we are ready to to listen to you about any unintended hardships that are directly instigated by this change"

Tony McNulty also said the same words in his letter to Christine Lee.

Now just observe the statements given by different persons and Departments after these changes

1) Now after these changes minister said in a meeting with Christine Lee on 14th March 2006 that there is no need to consult on this change of rules. In other words legal requirements not necessarily need to be fulfilled.The Government has decided on this and it will be brought in

2) Home secretary said about his past official letter (sent to RobinLondon in Feb 2005) stating that current Visa holders wont be affected by the changes that that was a standard reply.It's not a big deal.In other words whatever they have said in the past could be standard reply and can be denied at any time.

3) He further stated in the letter retrospective effects are not significant either.In other words he is accepting it to be retrospective.

4) His under secretary says in a letter to Sowhat that It is not retrospective law by any means.

5) HSMP sent the reply of my email on 18th April 2006 , after detailed consideration that these changes wont affect the current Visa Holders

6) Customer Service Advisor of Work permits says that this statement means that they will need to show evidence that they have ALREADY worked in the UK for FIVE YEARS


We say that government made a commitment with us that future changes wont affect us.See the Answers of the following questions.

24.9 Q: What if the scheme changes?

24.10 Q: I have already applied successfully under HSMP. How does the revised HSMP affect me?

26.5 Q: How long can I stay in the UK if I enter as a skilled migrant?

and Govt is breaking it’s commitment by retrospectively implementing future changes on us.As a result we lost the trust, confidence and feeling ourselves to be insecure and in uncertain situation.

Our Situation is just like someone who is driving a car 100 mile/hour on the road where traffic coming from opposite side is being driven by Drunk Drivers.Can you feel secure and will trust on drunk drivers that they wont hit you considering those drunk drivers have all safety measures and it wont make any effect on them if there would be any accident and only you will get hurt?

Isn t it unintended hardships that is directly instigated by this change as we lost the trust and confidence and feeling ourselves to be
insecure and in an uncertain situation

or they are waiting for an accident
Can you drive the car of your life with confidence and trust anymore.?

Well still question is whether it is intended or unintended because they will listen only about unintended hardships

[nonothing]

Sowhat wrote:

The Under Secretary also added that
Quote:
"Nevertheless we are ready to to listen to you about any unintended hardships that are directly instigated by this change"

Tony McNulty also said the same words in his letter to Christine Lee.

Now just observe the statements given by different persons and Departments after these changes

1) Now after these changes minister said in a meeting with Christine Lee on 14th March 2006 that there is no need to consult on this change of rules. The Government has decided on this and it will be brought in

2) Home secretary said about his past official letter (sent to RobinLondon in Feb 2005) stating that current Visa holders wont be affected by the changes that that was a standard reply.It's not a big deal.In other words whatever they have said in the past could be standard reply and can be denied at any time.

3) He further stated in the letter retrospective effects are not significant either.In other words he is accepting it to be retrospective.

4) His under secretary says in a letter to Sowhat that It is not retrospective law by any means.

5) HSMP sent the reply of my email on 18th April 2006 , after detailed consideration that these changes wont affect the current Visa Holders

6) Customer Service Advisor of Work permits says that this statement means that they will need to show evidence that they have ALREADY worked in the UK for FIVE YEARS

well done, aj77. you just saved my time from doing the same thing.

[morerightsformigrants]

i got this from bbc news interesting:


The British Medical Association, the professional association for doctors, accused the government of changing the rules without any regard for welfare. It said at least 9,000 doctors in short-term junior and senior house officer grades would be affected.

DOCTORS FURIOUS

I came as part of a significant investment in my career and for the opportunity to learn within the British system - If I return home now this investment will have been for nothing

Dr Sumit Reisinghaney


'We feel let down by NHS'

"There is definitely a need for a new system where the number of doctors coming to the country is based on the needs of the NHS, but what the government is doing is unfair on the doctors who are already here," said Dr Jo Hilborne, chairman of the BMA's Junior Doctors Committee.

But a spokesman for the Home Office, responsible for immigration rules, said transitional arrangements drawn up with the Department of Health would apply to some of those affected. Junior doctors and dentists in current training posts would be allowed to complete those placements.

Overseas doctors who had attended British medical schools would not be subject to work permit restrictions for their final two years.


judge by yourself...... they are not ony doing the restropectiveness to us but they are spreading it now... but at least they have a better transitional arrangements than us...... so my question is WHAT'S NEXT..?