October 2014 - Naturalisation Application Timeline

[ginger.garlic]

I feel it is irrelevant to update oath ceremony date but doing in case someone find it useful

Eligibility criteria: WP + Tier 1 + 1 Yr ILR (5 yr)
Language criteria met : Life in UK, Point Based Sheet, Degree Certificate, University MEdium of Instruction Certificate.
Current nationality: Indian
Method of application: NCS - Basingstoke
Date of application: 29/10/14
Payment method: Debit Card
Date of receipt by UKBA: 30/10/2014
Date of acknowledgment: Payment declined letter
Date of debit or clearance of fees: 21/11/2014
Date approval received:30/01/2015
Date of ceremony:12/02/2015

Hence Timeline completed, Thanks to everyone without your help and guidance this journey would have been very difficult.

Best of luck to those who are still waiting.
Moving to passport thread

[cb13]

I can feel some positive things coming our way this coming week.alot of approval for us IJN.

[Julian11]

I was declined. Supposedly did not exercise treaty rights for a continuous period of five years.

I am absolutely gutted and heartbroken.

[Alban1975]

Hi Julian11

Sorry to hear about this. What was the reason they refused your application?

[Julian11]

For not exercising treaty rights for a continuous period of five years, despite having lived here 5.5.

It's a very generic letter though, with stuff irrelevant to me in it too, so what exactly they saw that they disliked, I don't know.

[lake1]

For not exercising treaty rights for a continuous period of five years, despite having lived here 5.5.

It's a very generic letter though, with stuff irrelevant to me in it too, so what exactly they saw that they disliked, I don't know.

Hi Julian,

If you have only lived in the UK for 5.5 years like you said then you cant qualify yet for naturalisation, as you need to wait 1 year after qualifying for PR, so in total you need 6 years before you can apply.

[Julian11]

I'm married to a British citizen, which removes that extra year requirement.

[jaweb]

May ask you, Julian11 what is your nationality?

[lake1]

I'm married to a British citizen, which removes that extra year requirement.

Ok that's fine. No need for 1 year wait.

Why did they refuse your application then? What proofs did you send for exercising treaty right for 5 years.

[ohojska]

I was declined. Supposedly did not exercise treaty rights for a continuous period of five years.

I am absolutely gutted and heartbroken.

I'm really sorry for you. I know you was tracking all the EU without the PR. I'm one of the who is still waiting and all your posts were giving me a hope. I hope they will reconsider your case.

[Julian11]

I had a mix of studies, work, and self sufficiency, which I proved with all the relevant docs (and the NCS was fine with it all): work documents/P60s/HMRC documents for work, the relevant degree documents for studies, and certified bank statements for self sufficiency.

For a short while, I worked abroad but I came back every weekend (and I sent proof of all of these flights) and when you add up the days gone, it does not even come close to ever hitting six months in any residency year (if you hit 6 months away in a residency year, you break your treaty rights).

So I really don't know what they disliked.

Am writing my reconsideration letter right now, but it is really hard to address the issue without knowing what the issue really was. "not exercised treaty rights for a continuous five years" is very broad. I have addressed the time abroad thing, but it'd be a pointless exercise if they know that this is no issue and it was actually something totally different that was the issue, something which I have not realised.

Does anyone know if I can somehow speak to my caseworker to try to get a more specific reason as to why the rejection, so I can address it more specifically in the letter?

[lake1]

I had a mix of studies, work, and self sufficiency, which I proved with all the relevant docs (and the NCS was fine with it all): work documents/P60s/HMRC documents for work, the relevant degree documents for studies, and certified bank statements for self sufficiency.

For a short while, I worked abroad but I came back every weekend (and I sent proof of all of these flights) and when you add up the days gone, it does not even come close to ever hitting six months in any residency year (if you hit 6 months away in a residency year, you break your treaty rights).

So I really don't know what they disliked.

Am writing my reconsideration letter right now, but it is really hard to address the issue without knowing what the issue really was. "not exercised treaty rights for a continuous five years" is very broad. I have addressed the time abroad thing, but it'd be a pointless exercise if they know that this is no issue and it was actually something totally different that was the issue, something which I have not realised.

Does anyone know if I can somehow speak to my caseworker to try to get a more specific reason as to why the rejection, so I can address it more specifically in the letter?

I should think they will be more specific too about what aspect they believe isn't sufficient enough. If you send your P60s and bank statements for work and self sufficiency then it's highly it wasn't because of this 2, I think it's more likely because of the student, did you provide prove of comprehensive sickness insurance for the period when you were student?

To be honest if a case is not dead straight forward like someone was a worker for the whole 5 years and have proofs for this then I think it's a big risk to apply directly for naturalisation considering the cost. If it's rejected you stand to lose over £800 compared to £55 if PR application is refused, nowadays PR applications don't take long to be processed compared to before, mine for example took a month and some days and some are even quicker.

About your question about your reconsideration letter, maybe you can send a letter to the name and address of the rejection letter you received asking for the person to clarify better the main reason(s) why your application was refused so you can be able to address it better as you wish to apply for reconsideration.

Wish you all the best.

[Julian11]

Yep - CSI was provided covering both self sufficiency as well as study periods, and NCS was satisfied with that too.

I know it wasn't as straightforward as one status for five years but at the same time, there was a handy chart showing all dates and methods of treaty exercise in the application, with all the backing documentation, so not exactly too tough.

I'm so keen to get this reconsideration sent off that it'd be a pain to have to send a letter and wait for a response, but I guess it's the wisest thing to do. I guess there is no time limit on applying for/requesting reconsideration, right? So even if it takes them a few weeks or however long to reply, it'd be no issue to in a month or two send the reconsideration then.

I've emailed a couple solicitors as well to see if they can review what I had sent in originally and see if they can spot anything, and then also help me write this letter.

I'm thinking it's all a worthless exercise though and I might as well give up and just realise my 1k has been lost. I'm welcome to try again at any point, but of course who knows what new set of 5 years of treaty rights they'd be ok with.

[lake1]

Based on your replies you seems to know what you are doing and am starting to feel they might have made a mistake with the decision.

I know you would love to apply for reconsideration asap but it might be advisable to iron things out properly before doing so as you don't want to get another refusal. Send the first letter asking the person to explain the first refusal in details, once you get this you will then know if it was their mistake or your, which will then offer you the opportunity to address this with the reconsideration.

Sorry am not sure if there is a time limit for reconsideration, others might be able to assist with this.

[Julian11]

Yeah, that does seem like the wise way of going about it. I will phone them to see if I somehow get transferred to the case worker and am able to instantly get it all cleared up...

Wonder what the success rate of reconsiderations is.

Interesting to note that in the only other couple posts I've found online about this rejection reason, they've only come after a letter requesting more information, which was never responded to appropriately. I never got a letter - wonder if they did send one requesting alternative evidence of a particular time period of treaty rights, and I never got it? Would they have not sent a reminder or something?

A couple other thoughts:

I only had to prove 3 years' worth of residence and thus I had absences listed for the last 3 years, but I originally had all my absences listed for the past 5 years on the form. NCS asked me to cross off the first two years worth, but it'd still have been there, so the naturalisation people would have easily been able to see that in no residence year of treaty rights did I ever hit six months' loss. Could the NCS asking me to cross off the absences from the first two years made any difference? I am assuming not since you don't need to have that, only for the 3 years of residence you need to prove..for treaty rights you just have to prove how you were exercising them.

I submitted my application exactly on the day when I hit five years, it arriving there the day after. I think I signed it as of the day that I filled out the application, which was a few days before that, but the NCS didn't have a problem with that.

[lake1]

Unfortunately we can only speculate what the reason for refusal is without confirmation from them hence why you need to find out the reason first as then it gives you a proper chance to address it.

You probably would have received the letter if they requested more information, I know many thoughts would be going through your head so I can understand why you think maybe they sent one and you didn't get it.

Although you need to prove 3 years of residency as you married to a British national you still needed to show prove for 5 years of exercising treaty right as you didn't have a PR confirmation.

[Julian11]

Yeah - I proved the treaty rights for five years, just not technically the absences for the first two years as that was under the residency section instead. (Well, I did prove the absences, they just had a wee line over the first two years' worth as requested by the NCS person.) In the EU/treaty rights section, there was a very detailed breakdown of how I used treaty rights for the whole five years. That's how NCS said I should do it - residence/absences for the 3 years, treaty use for 5.

[lake1]

Yeah - I proved the treaty rights for five years, just not technically the absences for the first two years as that was under the residency section instead. (Well, I did prove the absences, they just had a wee line over the first two years' worth as requested by the NCS person.) In the EU/treaty rights section, there was a very detailed breakdown of how I used treaty rights for the whole five years.

In the treaty section did you give details of the whole 5 years absences? This is fundamental to PR application

[Julian11]

The treaty section does not ask for absences - it asks for the basis you are in the UK for the last five years. How would you fill in absences there when it does not ask for them nor provides space for them? From an absence perspective, it works differently than residence in that they only care if you were gone for 6 months or more, ie broke your exercise of treaty rights. The booklet for that section says to list how you used the treaties and then just that "applicants who have been outside the UK for 6 months or more in any one of the 5 years residence period will be seen to have ‘broken’ their residence." The only way you would see such an absence here is if you have an actual break, which makes sense - ie if you were self sufficient from Jan until March, then left the country for 2 months and came back and then self sufficient June until August, you'd see an absence of your treaty rights in that section, as you'd not be able to list having been in the UK as self sufficient from Jan until August and those months would not be there. In my case, as I never had any such breaks, and was continuously, over the whole period of five years, exercising treaty rights in the UK (ie, in my case, it would have been self sufficient Jan until August), there were no breaks in the dates listed in that section. It covered all dates from Oct 2009 until when the application was submitted.

And of course, the evidence provided to back up each part of the treaty rights section would have clearly shown no such gaps that would have breached the continuity of the exercise of treaty rights.

(In the residence section it says not providing the absences only delays your application, and despite the line over the first two years, all five years worth were there. But in that section it specifically says to only provide 3 years if you are married. The AN booklet also says to enter this section in this way, and enter the EU treaties section in the way I discussed above. It's also how NCS wanted me to do it, thus asking me to correct my mistake of listing 5 years' worth of absences in the residence section instead of 3.)

Is this interpretation of the booklet/what NCS asked me to do totally incorrect? If so, would simply passing on all 5 years' worth (and noting that it was on the form, just crossed off for part) in a reconsideration sort me out?

If this was the reason, I would still have thought that by showing no gaps in the dates in the EU section, I still proved continuous exercise of treaty rights - and the reason should have been more something about not proving absences, or since the absence section (for residence) talks about simply a delay, I would have thought that they'd have simply written a letter asking for evidence of absences for the first two years (I imagine they wouldn't have needed to though since it was there anyway, only crossed off). It's something very easy to provide, especially since it was there.

[lake1]

I hope they supply you with more information, I don't think all caseworkers know all the laws, i think if they deal with EU cases then they are more learned in that than UK rule and maybe if they deal with naturalisation cases they know more about that than EU rules, the more reason why I think people should apply for PR first as all the caseworker need to deal with is the naturalisation application, this sort of make it easy for them to deal with.

With all what you have said i think a caseworker that deals with EU applications would probably have granted you PR.

Try calling tomorrow and see if you have any joy with speaking with your caseworker if not then write to the person.

All the best.

[losthope]

Guys, could anyone give me advice on the following:

My EEA family permit expired towards the end of September and i applied for naturalisation as I qualify under the 6 year rule (never held PR). My work has just informed me that they have checked with the Home Office and I have no right to work according to their checks.

By law I gained automatic PR status after 5 years as the spouse of an EEA national.

My acknowledgement letter for Naturalisation does not state that I can carry on working while I wait for their decision.

What do I do and who should I contact to get this sorted out as I obviously have bills to pay. Everytime I contact the Home Office for an update its like talking to a brick wall and nobody can give me answers.

Thanks

[Julian11]

I hope they supply you with more information, I don't think all caseworkers know all the laws, i think if they deal with EU cases then they are more learned in that than UK rule and maybe if they deal with naturalisation cases they know more about that than EU rules, the more reason why I think people should apply for PR first as all the caseworker need to deal with is the naturalisation application, this sort of make it easy for them to deal with.

With all what you have said i think a caseworker that deals with EU applications would probably have granted you PR.

Try calling tomorrow and see if you have any joy with speaking with your caseworker if not then write to the person.

All the best.

I phoned the HO. They said they will try to get me more info and phone me back within 48 hours. The person I spoke to agreed it was vague in an area that is normally straightforward, and he said he'll try to get more details for me. Fingers crossed. Feeling so discouraged.

[rodrigopr84]

Guys, could anyone give me advice on the following:

My EEA family permit expired towards the end of September and i applied for naturalisation as I qualify under the 6 year rule (never held PR). My work has just informed me that they have checked with the Home Office and I have no right to work according to their checks.

By law I gained automatic PR status after 5 years as the spouse of an EEA national.

My acknowledgement letter for Naturalisation does not state that I can carry on working while I wait for their decision.

What do I do and who should I contact to get this sorted out as I obviously have bills to pay. Everytime I contact the Home Office for an update its like talking to a brick wall and nobody can give me answers.

Thanks

You should wait 1 year after getting permanent residency under European law, if your 5 years expired in September you should wait until September this year to apply for naturalisation.

[jaweb]

[quote="Julian11"][quote="lake1"]I hope they supply you with more information, I don't think all caseworkers know all the laws, i think if they deal with EU cases then they are more learned in that than UK rule and maybe if they deal with naturalisation cases they know more about that than EU rules, the more reason why I think people should apply for PR first as all the caseworker need to deal with is the naturalisation application, this sort of make it easy for them to deal with.

With all what you have said i think a caseworker that deals with EU applications would probably have granted you PR.

Try calling tomorrow and see if you have any joy with speaking with your caseworker if not then write to the person.

All the best.[/quote]
I phoned the HO. They said they will try to get me more info and phone me back within 48 hours. The person I spoke to agreed it was vague in an area that is normally straightforward, and he said he'll try to get more details for me. Fingers crossed. Feeling so discouraged.[/quote]



Fingers crossed. Please keep us posted

[cb13]

I called the home office today and I was told my application not yet assigned to a caseworker at the 4th month.I don't know what to do.