wife is96 temporary admission-no work, live at X and report.

[wiggsy]

cookie....

Look at Article 8 / Zambrano instructions from IDI's which case workers are under a legal obligation to follow when assessing cases...

The Sec of State has got it wrong... and they are using the fact that the applicant has no right of appeal to talk to them over.

However, Zambrano gives the person leave to remain in the country (outside of the UK Rules) and therefore they should have a right of appeal - no matter what UKBA interpretation of the fact is!

@Benefits,
I believe they turn down applications on the basis of "too poor to live here... bye then"... but they legally cannot do this. (and lets not start talking about reverse discrimination to british people per Directive 2004/38/EC - "British" people need to earn 18,600 to sponsor their spouse... yet other EEA nationals need not earn anything)...

[cookies]

cookie....

Look at Article 8 / Zambrano instructions from IDI's which case workers are under a legal obligation to follow when assessing cases...

The Sec of State has got it wrong... and they are using the fact that the applicant has no right of appeal to talk to them over.

However, Zambrano gives the person leave to remain in the country (outside of the UK Rules) and therefore they should have a right of appeal - no matter what UKBA interpretation of the fact is!

@Benefits,
I believe they turn down applications on the basis of "too poor to live here... bye then"... but they legally cannot do this. (and lets not start talking about reverse discrimination to british people per Directive 2004/38/EC - "British" people need to earn 18,600 to sponsor their spouse... yet other EEA nationals need not earn anything)...

I totally agree, and I agree with most ppl on this forum. What I was trying to get across to this other person was what UKBA go by. If you speak to many ppl on here you'll notice that UKBA don't really -normally- follow case law to a T. They don't care as long as they have "enough grounds" to refuse you. I wasn't telling this dude what HIS fault was, but how UKBA operate. If you go by the amount of appeals that are successful vs. the amount of visa refusals you can clearly see that the UKBA are mostly wrong when deciding cases.

I also agree with you when you say that the UKBA turn down application when a person is "too poor" it's shocking how they are treating their own people by putting a price to family life. It's sad really.

[east579new]

Reason for my partners refusal

1.I don’t meet the there definition of partner because we haven’t been living together for 2 years.

then there’s this Section E-LTRP.1.7. of Appendix FM states that the relationship between the applicant and their partner must be genuine and subsisting. In the view of the fact that your partner does not meet the definition of "Partner" for the purpose of Appendix FM you do not meet the requirements of Section E-LTRP.1.7.

Furthermore, section E-LTRPT.2.3. of Appendix FM states that either-

a)the applicant must have sole responsibility for the child or the child normally lives with the applicant and not their other parent(who is a British Citizen or settled in the UK; or

b)the parent or carer with whom the child normally lives must be-

1.a British Citizen in the UK or settles in the UK
2.Not the partner of the applicant(which here includes a person who has been in a relationship with the applicant for less than two years prior to the date of application)and
3.the applicant must not be eligible to apply for leave to remain as a partner under this appendix.

You claim to live with your partner and child as a family unit. You do not claim to have sole responsibility for your child, nor is the parent or carer with whom the child ordinarily lives a British Citizen in the UK or settled in the UK and not your partner. Therefore you fail to fulfil section E-LTRPT.2.3. of the requirements.

We have carefully considered whether EX.1applies to your application, however whilst we acknowledge that you have a genuine and subsisting relationship with your child your application falls for refusal under the eligibility requirements of the immigration rules as set out earlier. These are mandatory requirements which apply to all applicants regardless of weather the EX.1. criteria are met. As you have failed to meet those eligibility requirements, you cannot benifit from criteria set out at EX.1.

Then the rest is private life, overstaying, age at date of application etc.

refusal to grant leave to remain

Paragraph D-LTRP.1.3 with reference to R-LTRP.1.1 of HC 395 (as amended)

Paragraph D-LTRPT.1.3 with reference to R-LTRPT.1.1 OF HC 395 (as amended)

Paragraph 276CE with reference to paragraph 276ADE(iii)-(vi) of HC 395 (as amended).

[cookies]

Reason for my partners refusal

1.I don’t meet the there definition of partner because we haven’t been living together for 2 years.

then there’s this Section E-LTRP.1.7. of Appendix FM states that the relationship between the applicant and their partner must be genuine and subsisting. In the view of the fact that your partner does not meet the definition of "Partner" for the purpose of Appendix FM you do not meet the requirements of Section E-LTRP.1.7.

Furthermore, section E-LTRPT.2.3. of Appendix FM states that either-

a)the applicant must have sole responsibility for the child or the child normally lives with the applicant and not their other parent(who is a British Citizen or settled in the UK; or

b)the parent or carer with whom the child normally lives must be-

1.a British Citizen in the UK or settles in the UK
2.Not the partner of the applicant(which here includes a person who has been in a relationship with the applicant for less than two years prior to the date of application)and
3.the applicant must not be eligible to apply for leave to remain as a partner under this appendix.

You claim to live with your partner and child as a family unit. You do not claim to have sole responsibility for your child, nor is the parent or carer with whom the child ordinarily lives a British Citizen in the UK or settled in the UK and not your partner. Therefore you fail to fulfil section E-LTRPT.2.3. of the requirements.

We have carefully considered whether EX.1applies to your application, however whilst we acknowledge that you have a genuine and subsisting relationship with your child your application falls for refusal under the eligibility requirements of the immigration rules as set out earlier. These are mandatory requirements which apply to all applicants regardless of weather the EX.1. criteria are met. As you have failed to meet those eligibility requirements, you cannot benifit from criteria set out at EX.1.

Then the rest is private life, overstaying, age at date of application etc.

refusal to grant leave to remain

Paragraph D-LTRP.1.3 with reference to R-LTRP.1.1 of HC 395 (as amended)

Paragraph D-LTRPT.1.3 with reference to R-LTRPT.1.1 OF HC 395 (as amended)

Paragraph 276CE with reference to paragraph 276ADE(iii)-(vi) of HC 395 (as amended).

You applied under section 8J: A person applying on the basis of family life as a parent?

[east579new]

Does anybody have any advice on what i should do next?

[justice12]

Does anybody have any advice on what i should do next?

2 options left

Judicial review but that will cost U some money around 2 k

or your partner to go home to apply for spouse visa ( need to have a real job for that ) hope that can help, good luck.

[cookies]

I would like to make the same suggestion I made in an earlier post:

Hire a real solicitor and get professional legal advice. You're wasting your time on here.

[justice12]

@kookies

You talk to much that's your problem ! and you don't have any knowledge !
you are Misleading people on here , clearly the OP wasn't refused cos he was on the benefit, as it was an article 8 application out with the rules ,
you have made 120 comment in 1 month ! before even your application was sent off !
your application is in the way to be refused too mybe so you'r not better then anyone in here , get life and stop making to much comment .

[cookies]

@kookies

You talk to much that's your problem ! and you don't have any knowledge !
you are Misleading people on here , clearly the OP wasn't refused cos he was on the benefit, as it was an article 8 application out with the rules ,
you have made 120 comment in 1 month ! before even your application was sent off !
your application is in the way to be refused too mybe so you'r not better then anyone in here , get life and stop making to much comment .

And you need to stop being RUDE, I did NOT say the OP was refused bc of benefits - I SAID (if you even took some time to read and understand) that what I wrote was MY PERSONAL OPINION and NOT advice. I believe everyone on here has a right to comment. I NEVER gave advice or told people what to do. I have a solicitor and I was only communicating what he's told me. You can either read it or leave it. You are also giving advice throughout and I am pretty sure you know as little as I do. so please don't attack me for no reason, that was pretty harsh. I ALWAYS state when what I say is a personal comment or opinion. You aren't helping much either are you? I pretty much think that getting a lawyer who knows his stuff is his best bet and pretty good advice instead of following YOUR advice. Don't you think??? What YOU need to do is get a life, chill out and stop being so hostile. I do have a life thank you, and you shouldn't go round wishing other people's applications to be refused. That is plain mean. So why don't YOU go get a life.

[east579new]

I would like to make the same suggestion I made in an earlier post:

Hire a real solicitor and get professional legal advice. You're wasting your time on here.

Cookie i have a immigration solicitor from a law firm dealing with the case you obviously haven’t read the whole thread and how do i define a real solicitor? a REAL solicitor what are you talking about?.

[wiggsy]

east... have you written asking for reconsideration highlighting the zambrano principle etc... ?... that doesnt cost money except postage etc...

= and as i said, it stops the JR clock (as you are still awaiting their final decision).

Hopefully, if you highlight to them that you know what your talking about, they will switch the decision... (however unlikely it is)...

JR - it will cost about 2grand, but as this case has strong human rights grounds, it can STILL BE FUNDED by the Legal Aid Agency.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ng_to_cour
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... aid_on_hum


Do you currently have a legal aid certificate, if so JR can be progressed on that usually... [or did the solicitor work on a "Legal Help" / self funded basis for you originally?]

[justice12]

@ east
You can not ask for reconsideration anymore as the UKBA they don't accept it anymore since last july , coz the reconsiderations applications who created the 140 k of backlog last few years ,
If you want to go down ecj zambrano ruling I think they will tell you the seem as they told me back in 2011 I will paste it so you can read it :

(In the interim, it has been agreed that application will be accepted into the busines where a person can demonstrate that they potentially meet the scope of ruiz zambrano, this means that the applicant must demonstrate that they are:
- the sole carer of dependent british citizen
-removing them from the uk would mean the british citizen would also have to leave the european union.
the document submitted in support of your application indicate that you are in the relationship with british citizen, however,there is insufficient evidence to suggest that removal from the UK would result in the british citizen being required to leave the E U.
I am therefor returning these document to you with this letter . )

[east579new]

Im really confused here is a reconsideration possible or not?

[justice12]

Im really confused here is a reconsideration possible or not?

Even if reconsideration are allowed it's will take no less then 3 to 4 years easy to reconsider ,
Fresh applications are taken 1,5 to 2 years
I suggest you to go for JR big time as you will get your partner sorted in few month .

[justice12]

east... have you written asking for reconsideration highlighting the zambrano principle etc... ?... that doesnt cost money except postage etc...

= and as i said, it stops the JR clock (as you are still awaiting their final decision).

Hopefully, if you highlight to them that you know what your talking about, they will switch the decision... (however unlikely it is)...

JR - it will cost about 2grand, but as this case has strong human rights grounds, it can STILL BE FUNDED by the Legal Aid Agency.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ng_to_cour
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... aid_on_hum


Do you currently have a legal aid certificate, if so JR can be progressed on that usually... [or did the solicitor work on a "Legal Help" / self funded basis for you originally?]

Incorrect advice: you ask for reconsideration when no right of appeal has been given. The HO is unlikely to reconsider it. A new policy regarding reconsideration was put out on 13 November 2012 to stop people who have been refused not to ask for reconsideration. It was requests for reconsideration that created the 14,000 backlog that was discovered by John Vine in January. The HO are trying to prevent this from happening, when refused, they want you to either appeal or leave the country even though you have not given you right to appeal.

JR can not only be brought through public fund, in fact, as legal aid has been stopped in immigration cases, you now have to pay this privately. JR is expensive and before you are allowed to proceed, the decision you are challenging has to be based on point of law. You can not simply ask for JR because you do not like the decision you got.
_________________

[cookies]

Im really confused here is a reconsideration possible or not?

What I mean by a real solicitor is that you should ask your solicitor what to do, people on here aren't professional immigration advisers, be wary of advice given on here.

Nevertheless, here's an article I hope you find useful and a phone number at the bottom, they might be able to help you.

http://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/pdfs/Le ... ly2012.pdf

http://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/

[east579new]

east... have you written asking for reconsideration highlighting the zambrano principle etc... ?... that doesnt cost money except postage etc...

= and as i said, it stops the JR clock (as you are still awaiting their final decision).

Hopefully, if you highlight to them that you know what your talking about, they will switch the decision... (however unlikely it is)...

JR - it will cost about 2grand, but as this case has strong human rights grounds, it can STILL BE FUNDED by the Legal Aid Agency.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ng_to_cour
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... aid_on_hum


Do you currently have a legal aid certificate, if so JR can be progressed on that usually... [or did the solicitor work on a "Legal Help" / self funded basis for you originally?]

Incorrect advice: you ask for reconsideration when no right of appeal has been given. The HO is unlikely to reconsider it. A new policy regarding reconsideration was put out on 13 November 2012 to stop people who have been refused not to ask for reconsideration. It was requests for reconsideration that created the 14,000 backlog that was discovered by John Vine in January. The HO are trying to prevent this from happening, when refused, they want you to either appeal or leave the country even though you have not given you right to appeal.

JR can not only be brought through public fund, in fact, as legal aid has been stopped in immigration cases, you now have to pay this privately. JR is expensive and before you are allowed to proceed, the decision you are challenging has to be based on point of law. You can not simply ask for JR because you do not like the decision you got.
_________________

Many thanks for the advice Justice12 does anybody else have any input into this?
The solicitors have passed our case to barristers who work for them to asses if or not we there are grounds for judicial review and as for legal aid even the solicitors are not sure and are seeking clarification.

Just one thing with regards to been told to leave is it really that simple? i would like to bet there’s not another country in the European Union that would ever attempt to separate mother and child.

Not much relevance just a thought really but if you’ve ever been in a relationship in England where there’s a child involved and the parents split up the child 100% of the time stays with the mother and as they are always considered to be the main carer(parent).

And after a split if you even attempt to get custody and seek legal advice solicitors and judges just laugh at you and look at you like you’ve gone mad CHILD always stays with Mother.

The mother is always the primary parent.

[east579new]

Can anybody else think of anything that may help us? all advice is appreciated.

[east579new]

I posted for help on a paid for forum can anybody tell me what they mean by these points by victoria please they are extremely cryptic

http://www.ukresident.com/forums/topic/ ... ce-needed/

the points are
1) This is a standard refusal. The UKBA are refusing such applications as a matter of course despite it being contrary to their own rules.
and

2) Don't be worried about being separated - that won't happen. If cant, as that would constitute a breach of law.

Please can somebody explain i really need help.

[Obie]

I am unable to make much sense of the advice you have been given.

Now that a british child is in the equation, the position of your partner has changed significantly.

I am having difficulty, understanding why these legal representatives are seeking to make the case extremely complex.

And by the way, yes you are entitled to the benefits in question, and you can do a single person's claim ,as the position of your partner is yet to be resolved.

I do hope that matters will get resolved soon.

[east579new]

I am unable to make much sense of the advice you have been given.

Now that a british child is in the equation, the position of your partner has changed significantly.

I am having difficulty, understanding why these legal representatives are seeking to make the case extremely complex.

And by the way, yes you are entitled to the benefits in question, and you can do a single person's claim ,as the position of your partner is yet to be resolved.

I do hope that matters will get resolved soon.

Hi Obie and thanks for the reply the benefits part i have solved a long time ago with no problems its my partners refusal i am dealing with now and as you can see in that forum they kind of break of a bread crumb then leave you with nothing it is a paid forum i don't know weather they want money to complete the rest of the puzzle.

[Obie]

well it appears the application was made on the wrong basis.

Firstly, you have not been in your relationship for 2 years, therefore you cannot qualify as a partner of her.

She could have applied as having sole responsibility of your child, even if you both live in the same household and have sexual relationship, but this was not done.

Whoever applied must have envisaged that this point will be picked upon.

I do however believe that your partner meets the requirement of E-LTRPT.2.3. (a).

Your wife has full parental responsibility as the unmarried mother of the British Child, because you are unmarried, except she has allowed you to get some parental rights.

An application should nevertheless be made clear, that she is not applying as a partner, as she will not qualify, but rather as the parent of a British Citizenship child, for whom she has sole parental responsibility.

Ex 1 will apply, and the benefit should not have any effect, in my view.

[east579new]

well it appears the application was made on the wrong basis.

Firstly, you have not been in your relationship for 2 years, therefore you cannot qualify as a partner of her.

She could have applied as having sole responsibility of your child, even if you both live in the same household and have sexual relationship, but this was not done.

Whoever applied must have envisaged that this point will be picked upon.

I do however believe that your partner meets the requirement of E-LTRPT.2.3. (a).

Your wife has full parental responsibility as the unmarried mother of the British Child, because you are unmarried, except she has allowed you to get some parental rights.

An application should nevertheless be made clear, that she is not applying as a partner, as she will not qualify, but rather as the parent of a British Citizenship child, for whom she has sole parental responsibility.

Ex 1 will apply, and the benefit should not have any effect, in my view.

Many thanks for all the pointers Obie i really appreciate it and can imagine its a simple error that has cost us the problem is when we applied we used CLAC (Community Legal Advice Centre) (now all disbanded because of the end of legal aid).

It was an immigration adviser don't know what level who prepared and submitted the application you automatically assume they know there stuff well now i know clearly not.

They was not positive from the outset telling us before we even sent the application that it would fail.

[east579new]

Just a quick update our immigration adviser contacted us today with regards to seeking advice from counsel on the merits of JR.
They where just waiting for confirmation from us to proceed, i thought they was doing this 3 weeks ago so that's a month wasted then, this is turning into an absolute knight mare for us.

They have said that if counsel don't think it merits JR then there is nothing more they can do.

But if it is worthy they start the usual spiel you know show us the ££££££££.

[east579new]

This is what an immigration adviser on another site said to me regarding my case

What I mean is that I have made several applications the same as yours, based on EX, where there is joint responsibility of a British child, where one parent is British and the other is not...and they have ALL been refused. Looking on other forums, this is happening as a matter of course. EX is being disregarded, and they are trying to apply the partner or the sole responsibility rules. I don't think your rep (who is probably an OISC advisor, as I am) has done anything wrong here.

then i sent this in response which was part of the refusal letter

We have carefully considered weather EX.1 applies to your application, however whilst we acknowledge that you have a genuine and subsisting parental relationship with a child your application falls for refusal under the eligibility requirements of the immigration rules as set out earlier. These are mandatory requirements which apply to all applicants regardless of weather the EX.1 criteria are met . As you have failed to meet those eligibility requirements, you cannot benefit from the criteria set out at EX.1.

Then she left me with this and wont explain why

"your application falls for refusal under the eligibility requirements of the immigration rules as set out earlier."

"These are mandatory requirements which apply to all applicants regardless of weather the EX.1 criteria are met"

This is the bit that is simply untrue (she said)

Does anybody know what she means? we have an immigration adviser looking into our case but i myself am trying to gain knowledge myself so at least i know what they are talking about and can ask the right questions if you understand and at the same time anybody else on here who is in the same position can gain for the information too.