got his visa on saturday and left on sunday. can he do this?

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:21 pm

Wanderer, I see your point. Those who actively seek out a partner of a certain nationality for immigration purposes can indeed be very ruthless. I actually asked my husband when we were first going out if he was with me for immigration purposes. As he pointed out to me, if he was that desperate to stay here, he would have paid a girl to marry him, rather than put me and his family through a lot of heartache.

sammie121 · Post by **sammie121** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:45 pm

At the Embassy in Tirana most of the guys were with Polish wives/Girlfriends is it true the visa is cheaper?

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

sammie121 wrote:At the Embassy in Tirana most of the guys were with Polish wives/Girlfriends is it true the visa is cheaper?

If they were applying for an EEA permit, then it's free!!

sammie121 · Post by **sammie121** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:59 pm

Roger that!

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:14 pm

Sorry - deleted!

ismangil · Post by **ismangil** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:20 pm

clairey wrote:As he pointed out to me, if he was that desperate to stay here, he would have paid a girl to marry him, rather than put me and his family through a lot of heartache.

Well, to the true criminal, why pay if you can con your way? Con man/woman don't care if they cause heartache anyway.

I would grant however that a con man/woman that can keep a deep cover of being a good spouse and parent for three or more years is definitely Spooks material!

Marie B · Post by **Marie B** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:38 pm

I have to agree with clairey, I am English and married to an Albanian man and, like all countries, they have good and bad characters. Yes the vice in London is run by Albanians but that doesn't mean all the Albanians in London are involved in vice. As always it is a small minority that run the dodgy stuff.

I know lots of Albanians and they all end up tarred with the same brush, even though they are hard-working, honest individuals. Many of them have married in this country, and none of them fit badmaash's opinion that they 'mostly go for girls on deprived estate', the Albanians I know are married to intelligent professional women. Certainly the OP's daughter doesn't sound like a girl 'who dont have a clue see a small wad of money and are fooled'. And I don't fit that stereotype either, thanks.

We had all the usual comments from 'friends' and colleagues when we went to get married even though we had been going out together for 3.5 years and living together for a year. Suddenly people thought I was mad and that it all sounded 'really dodgy', and that he was marrying me for a passport, and I was in a long-term relationship with him, working in a professional career for which I had studied to masters degree level, and of sound mind and yet the only reason some of my 'friends' thought he could want to marry me was for my useful immigration status. It was bizarre.

Our real friends travelled to Albania with us for the wedding and had a fantastic time. What made our experience even more memorable was the selflessness of my husband's family and friends in making sure we all had everything we needed, three of his cousins even took a week of work to ferry us around. My family have all said our wedding was the best they have ever been to because of the lovely people they met and celebrated with.

All Albanians suffer for the bad reputation the dodgy characters create. My husband has had to apply for three schengan visas within the last eighteen months as all the EU embassies will only give him a 3 month visa maximum because of his nationality. It's a right pain.

I have been to Albania on a number of occasions, and yes there is poverty, and yes the government was really corrupt but they do seem to be getting their acts together. My husband is from the far north and his family do not believe in the whole honour/blood feud system. The Albania I have witnessed is far more conservative in their values than the UK, very family orientated with strong morals. Many of the people I met in Albania were incredibly poor yet they would go without to offer you food and drink as you were a guest in their country. I love Albania, my Albanian in-laws and the Albanian language and I try to spend as much time there as I possibly can each year.

It seems it is just the individual who comes to this country and suddenly realises what he can get away with here, and as he has no morals himself or empathy with others that would stop most normal people acting that way which creates a problem. The OP has my sympathy, it must be incredibly difficult to find out you have married a man who wasn't what he appeared to be, especially when you have a child together. All the best for what you decide to do now and in the future.

Marie B · Post by **Marie B** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:36 pm

I suppose the UK is paying the price for waging an unjust war on Serbia

The UK didn't 'wage war' on Serbia. Serbia waged war on ethnic minorities in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo. Nato targetted air strikes on Serbia and Kosovo in 1999, the UN went in to keep the peace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5165042.stm

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:10 am

Marie B wrote:
I suppose the UK is paying the price for waging an unjust war on Serbia
The UK didn't 'wage war' on Serbia. Serbia waged war on ethnic minorities in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo. Nato targetted air strikes on Serbia and Kosovo in 1999, the UN went in to keep the peace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5165042.stm

Try explaining that to the average Serb..It all depends on which side of the political divide you belong to.The West has always viewed the Serbs as adversaries (mainly because they have traditionally aligned themselves with the Russians due to cultural/linguistic ties) & the intervention in Kosovo was part of the campaign to destory the Serb state, as retribution for resisting Western hegemony in the Balkans. The campaign has since continued, with the outrageous referendum in Montenegro, supported by the West & the large Albanian minority being only the latest step towards the annihalation of the Serbian nation.

As far I am concerned, the war in Kosovo was unjustified-yes,there was a campaign against the Kosovars but that was in response to an active, mostly Islamist, insurgency directed at the Serb minority there. Serbs consider Kosovo to be their spiritual homeland & granting it independence risks converting it into another base for orgs such as Al Qaeda. The Kosovan conflict might have started off as a struggle for self determination but evidence shows that it soon turned into an Islam v Christiandom conflict after the campaign was hijacked by foreign terrorists who were invited into the region by the likes of KLA & ANA.

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:22 am

clairey wrote:Wanderer, I see your point. Those who actively seek out a partner of a certain nationality for immigration purposes can indeed be very ruthless. I actually asked my husband when we were first going out if he was with me for immigration purposes. As he pointed out to me, if he was that desperate to stay here, he would have paid a girl to marry him, rather than put me and his family through a lot of heartache.

Well, on the question of paying someone to get married for the purposes of obtaining ILR, you might be aware that its not as straightforward as it might seem. In order to be successful- a) One would have to find a girl who is willing to risk prosecution by entering into such an agreement b) It`ll probably cost a lot of money c) one would have to obtain a CoA, which would be difficult if the girl has dodgy antecedents c) most importantly, one would have to prove that the marriage is genuine by producing proof like joint bills, mortgage payments etc spread over a couple of years before settlement is granted.

Given the conditions attached, I think it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to 'buy' settlement by paying someone to enter into a sham marriage.The most you can get is a 2 year spouse visa which is probably not worth all the hassle.

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:35 am

ismangil wrote:
clairey wrote:As he pointed out to me, if he was that desperate to stay here, he would have paid a girl to marry him, rather than put me and his family through a lot of heartache.
Well, to the true criminal, why pay if you can con your way? Con man/woman don't care if they cause heartache anyway.

I would grant however that a con man/woman that can keep a deep cover of being a good spouse and parent for three or more years is definitely Spooks material!

Judging by the OP's experience, heartache is no issue to such con men. Also, bigamy is allowed in their societies so having an extra wife probably doesn`t trouble their conscience either. I personally know of someone who had a very similar experience (where the husband brought his 'real' wife over as soon as he was granted indefinite leave & subsequently started physically & emotinally abusing his British wife until she left.this was around 15 years ago so he was never really brought to justice)

jimquk · Post by **jimquk** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:42 am

Thirdwave, this isn't really the place to discuss Balkan politics, but your characterisation of the Kosovo conflict as "Islamist" is in my opinion absurd - as absurd as claiming that Russia has special linguistic and cultural ties to Serbia, given that 90% of Serb language and culture is identical to that of Croatia and Bosnia. Also you state that "the West has always viewed the Serbs as adversaries - well obviously not in 1914 0r 1941.

I also find your coments on Somalis and Albanians highly objectionable. Yes, there are a lot of both those nationalities involved in crime. Actually, what both countries have in common is years and years of mismanagement. Any country that is economically and socially smashed will produce criminals. It's not because the people are Albanian or whatever, it's because of historical factors in which our so civilised Western countries often have a hand. I'm not saying this to excuse bad behaviour, least of all the case raised by the Original Poster (in case we forget what this thread is supposed to be about!), but your attitude of lumping people together can only make things worse.

badmaash · Post by **badmaash** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:40 am

i say there is no problem for one who born in the uk and he is on the dole why as he has not come to the uk to spounge

the welfare state is part of society

jimquk · Post by **jimquk** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:37 am

No-one is saying that everyone that is on benefits is scrounging; but surely you won't claim that no-one is scrounging? We all know that the system gets ripped off, and that it doesn't encourage people to try to help themselves.

And what makes you so convinced that the accident of a person's place of birth should be used to penalise or reward people? Why should a UK citizen get benefits and every opportunity a rich society can give them, and another person be condemned to suffer under unjust governments, labouring for a pittance all their lives, without hope of a better future for their children. Why?

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:23 am

jimquk wrote:Thirdwave, this isn't really the place to discuss Balkan politics, but your characterisation of the Kosovo conflict as "Islamist" is in my opinion absurd - as absurd as claiming that Russia has special linguistic and cultural ties to Serbia, given that 90% of Serb language and culture is identical to that of Croatia and Bosnia. Also you state that "the West has always viewed the Serbs as adversaries - well obviously not in 1914 0r 1941.

I also find your coments on Somalis and Albanians highly objectionable. Yes, there are a lot of both those nationalities involved in crime. Actually, what both countries have in common is years and years of mismanagement. Any country that is economically and socially smashed will produce criminals. It's not because the people are Albanian or whatever, it's because of historical factors in which our so civilised Western countries often have a hand. I'm not saying this to excuse bad behaviour, least of all the case raised by the Original Poster (in case we forget what this thread is supposed to be about!), but your attitude of lumping people together can only make things worse.

Jimquk,Kindly note that I did not start discussing Balkan politics out of nowehre but was just responding to a comment made by one of the other posters. The West fought alongside Russia & Serbia in 1914 (WW1) and in 1941, when Germany invaded Soviet Union. However, that was followed by over 50 years of bitter hostilities which brought the whole planet to the brink of nuclear war on several occasions.Despite the end of the Cold war, suspicions still exist between the West & what is left of the Russian camp, which Serbia/Belarus/anyone else who is not pro Western forms part of. In 200 years time, historians would not be debating what happened between 1992-2001 but, say, between the end of WW2 & 2050. From what I can see, the NATO bloc is still engaged in a power struggle with its old adversary to the East & the recent NATO/EU expansion, NATO intervention in Kosovo, energy disptes, propping up of Western leaning govts in former Soviet satellite states etc should be viewed in that context.

I wonder if you are aware that Russia & Serbia share the same religion (Eastern Orthodox Church) & the church is central to both Serbian & Russian national identities.Their languages use the same script (Cyrillic)& are very similar in other respects, such as phonetics & grammar. They also share the same slavic ethnicity & there have been strong historical ties between the two nations as a result of their shared heritage. You rightly pointed out that the language of the Croats & Bosnians is similar to the Serbs But their CULTURE IS NOT...I`m not in the mood to give you a lesson in history & would suggest that you do some reading around the topic before you make such statements. One of the main differences between the Croats/Bosnians and the Serbs is that Croats are Catholic & the Bosnians are muslims. The Serbians actively resisted Ottoman rule while the Bosnians were the principal allies of the Ottomans in the region.The list goes on...

I was just stating facts when I said that the Kosovan conflict turned into an Islamist one following the arrival of foreign fighters ( if you agree bearded men calling for global jihad against the West are terrorists and not 'freedom fighters' as many neo liberals/closet Islamists like to describe them, that is)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BEH502A.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -qaida.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 295850.ece

We can debate the reasons behind increased criminality among Albanians/Somalis until the cows come home but the sad truth is that it is a fact borne out by statistics (& its not limited to the UK..Kindly follow the link to find out about the problem in Italy)
http://www.cemes.org/current/ethpub/eth ... p1_ind.htm
http://www.cemes.org/current/ethpub/eth ... /wp1-d.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3040388.stm

Post by **archigabe** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:31 am

Interesting analysis on the politics of the balkans...I am learning a lot from it.Hopefully this thread won't turn into a flame up on religious issues.I hope we can end the direction this debate seems to be moving into now.

sharonteresa · Post by **sharonteresa** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:12 pm

There have been a lot of interesting comments and suggestions.... please dont turn this thread into a battle ground!!!!

That will not help my daughter and that is the original reason i posted this - to show my daughter suggestions on what she can or cannot do
thanks

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:46 pm

sharonteresa wrote:There have been a lot of interesting comments and suggestions.... please dont turn this thread into a battle ground!!!!

That will not help my daughter and that is the original reason i posted this - to show my daughter suggestions on what she can or cannot do
thanks

Sharon, I am sorry to hear about yor daughter's experience but, as many have pointed out, your options might be quite limited given the circumstances. Personally, I would regard as suspicious anyone who marries a resident but does not have a decent enough occupation which would allow him/her to stay in this country in their own right, as there is a high probability that things might turn out the way they did with your daughter.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:49 pm

thirdwave wrote:Judging by the OP's experience, heartache is no issue to such con men. Also, bigamy is allowed in their societies so having an extra wife probably doesn`t trouble their conscience either. I personally know of someone who had a very similar experience (where the husband brought his 'real' wife over as soon as he was granted indefinite leave & subsequently started physically & emotinally abusing his British wife until she left.this was around 15 years ago so he was never really brought to justice)

Bigamy is allowed in their societies?? I can't comment about Somalia, but it is certainly not allowed in Albanian society! Where did you get that information from?

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:12 pm

sharonteresa wrote:There have been a lot of interesting comments and suggestions.... please dont turn this thread into a battle ground!!!!

That will not help my daughter and that is the original reason i posted this - to show my daughter suggestions on what she can or cannot do
thanks

sharonteresa, I apologise for hi-jacking your thread. I can only suggest that you follow the advice of previous posters and report his behaviour to the BIA, and then allow them to take it from there. Also chase him for child support.

I apologise again, but I don't take kindly to attacks on my husband's and my in-laws' nationality. Like MarieB, I have only ever experienced kindness, overwhelming hospitality and love from Albanians. Also as there are quite a few Albanians and spouses of Albanians using this site, I don't feel I can stand by and allow them to be attacked in this manner.

I wish you, your daughter and your grandchild all the best for the future.

jimquk · Post by **jimquk** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:47 pm

Archigabe said:

I hope we can end the direction this debate seems to be moving into now.

Absolutely, as I said this is not the place, nor does it help the OP. However, it is hard to leave such imflammatory comments unanswered. I would only add that, although I have a radically different interpretation from Thirdwave's (and yes I am aware that Croats are Catholic, etc) I am not anti-Serb; on the contrary, I feel that they are also victims of the various blood-lettings of 1912, 1914, 1941 and 1992, and that the break-up of Yugoslavia is a tragedy.

To Sharonteresa, I commend your dignity in dealing with everything, and with us argumentative lot!

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:41 pm

clairey wrote:
thirdwave wrote:Judging by the OP's experience, heartache is no issue to such con men. Also, bigamy is allowed in their societies so having an extra wife probably doesn`t trouble their conscience either. I personally know of someone who had a very similar experience (where the husband brought his 'real' wife over as soon as he was granted indefinite leave & subsequently started physically & emotinally abusing his British wife until she left.this was around 15 years ago so he was never really brought to justice)
Bigamy is allowed in their societies?? I can't comment about Somalia, but it is certainly not allowed in Albanian society! Where did you get that information from?

Although the commies banned polygamy in Albania, its still widely practised in rural areas. Infact, one of the main concerns of the erstwhile Serb regime in relation to Kosovo was the high feritility rates among Kosovar women & the widespread practice of polygamy leading to a surge in the Albanian population in Serbia, which the authorities (quite rightly) felt would overwhelm the majority Serbs in the longer term.

Also, I would like to point out that a recent study commissioned by the University of Tirana found that over 1/3 (37% to be precise) of all Albanian women are subject to domestic violence at the hands of their husbands..So if you are under the impression that Albanian men are brimming with respect for their womenfolk, you might want to change your opinion..

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/27818.php

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:46 pm

jimquk wrote:Archigabe said:
I hope we can end the direction this debate seems to be moving into now.
Absolutely, as I said this is not the place, nor does it help the OP. However, it is hard to leave such imflammatory comments unanswered. I would only add that, although I have a radically different interpretation from Thirdwave's (and yes I am aware that Croats are Catholic, etc) I am not anti-Serb; on the contrary, I feel that they are also victims of the various blood-lettings of 1912, 1914, 1941 and 1992, and that the break-up of Yugoslavia is a tragedy.

To Sharonteresa, I commend your dignity in dealing with everything, and with us argumentative lot!

Jim, I apologise if you found my comments offensive. Your take on history is obviously different to mine & maybe we should leave it at that & move on..

Post by **archigabe** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:06 pm

let's not forget one of the most famous Albanian, Mother Theresa who dedicated her life to one of service to her fellow humans regardless of race,religion.

sammie121 · Post by **sammie121** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:11 pm

So much ignorance displayed in this thread...... And from the comments it is evident that the posters are commenting on a country and society they have no real idea about.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

got his visa on saturday and left on sunday. can he do this?