Today:changes to the system managing highly-skilled migrants

[hsmp2010]

in above posts someone post that letter from uni will not work in new system.
this is not the case

according to that pdf doc it will still work.

what r trial countries. where is mention of trial countries in doc?

when i will apply for FLR in next year will i get 2 yrs extension or 3 years?

[seanjoe]

Hi all,

I am from India i qualify for hsmp ( using existing points system),
I have all the documents ready with me and i was planning to file for hsmp in sec week of december 07
For English language Requirement - I have got the Letter from university

I will highly appritiate if can get help on these queries
1. Will the letter from university for English language be sufficient or should i go for ILETS( or equivalent)

>>yes, a letter from the university stating your name, dob, student number and a declaration saying that your course was taught in English will be fine. no other docs needed.

2. processing of my application will be done on current rules ( as new rules will come into play later in March of 2008) i.e hsmp approval followed by EC
>>current rules

3. should i go for hsmp asap or wait for new rules to come into play?
>>better to apply sooner rather than later, rules can change anytime.

4. If i go for hsmp in dec 07, do i need to furnish any new document or the ones in accordance to current rules suffice?

>>old rules must be adhered to..
Thanks in advance...

[Hiro]

Trial countries - India and USA. I suspect as someone mentioned earlier, India due to the quantity of apps and USA due to the quality of apps.

I strongly believe that the "one system" (as opposed to the 2 stage system) will lead to longer application times and backlogs. I suspect that in some countries it will take as long as 6-12 months to complete the application. Why do I say so, well, they have cut off half the staff force that first verified the documents and then the whole process is now cheaper (£400 as opposed to the current £400+£350 if its in country). A cheaper system means there is no justification to be faster or quicker. Thats just my opinion. If you can, I suggest you apply NOW!

As for the FLR for those with a 2 year visa, until the final guidelines are out, sticking by the statement of intent (and knowing the HO), renewal will be 2 years and not a reciprocal 3 years. Again this is just my opinion.

in above posts someone post that letter from uni will not work in new system.
this is not the case

according to that pdf doc it will still work.

what r trial countries. where is mention of trial countries in doc?

when i will apply for FLR in next year will i get 2 yrs extension or 3 years?

[VictoriaS]

Can someone please post the reference to the trial countries, I can't find it!

Victoria

[arsenalsri]

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=53816

It's on post 6 of this thread.

[VictoriaS]

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=53816

It's on post 6 of this thread.

Is there a link to a Home Office site which backs this up?

Victoria

[MrBaboo]

in above posts someone post that letter from uni will not work in new system.
this is not the case

according to that pdf doc it will still work.

I can't see any mention of university letters in the pdf hence my feeling it *might* no longer be enough. Please let me know where it is in the document. What I do see is a mention of NARIC being the decider on whether a degree is sufficient proof:

Applicants will need to prove their competence in
English language by proving they:

...

Have taken a degree taught in English (verified
using National Academic Recognition Information
Centre7 data).

[MrBaboo]

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=53816

It's on post 6 of this thread.

Is there a link to a Home Office site which backs this up?

Victoria

Good point. It could just be noise generated by news agencies.

[hsmp2010]

I can't see any mention of university letters in the pdf hence my feeling it *might* no longer be enough. Please let me know where it is in the document. What I do see is a mention of NARIC being the decider on whether a degree is sufficient proof:

Applicants will need to prove their competence in
English language by proving they:

...

Have taken a degree taught in English (verified
using National Academic Recognition Information
Centre7 data).

Yes I am talking abt same sentence. because in current system they also ask for degree taught in english whereas degree is approved by NARIC.
I dont see it is different from current system.

[VictoriaS]

The difference with the Engligh language requirement is that as well as the University letter, they will also accept Grade C GCSE or equivalent, and won't require anything from those from majority english speaking countries (as listed).

Victoria

[MrBaboo]

I can't see any mention of university letters in the pdf hence my feeling it *might* no longer be enough. Please let me know where it is in the document. What I do see is a mention of NARIC being the decider on whether a degree is sufficient proof:

Applicants will need to prove their competence in
English language by proving they:

...

Have taken a degree taught in English (verified
using National Academic Recognition Information
Centre7 data).

Yes I am talking abt same sentence. because in current system they also ask for degree taught in english whereas degree is approved by NARIC.
I dont see it is different from current system.

As far as I know NARIC currently do not certify degrees are taught in English, merely that the degree is UK equivalent. My reading of the above sentence is that the will also take on this role (which would make it different from the current system).

I think the sentence is poorly worded and ambiguous so we won't know for sure until we get more detail.

[MrBaboo]

The difference with the Engligh language requirement is that as well as the University letter, they will also accept Grade C GCSE or equivalent, and won't require anything from those from majority english speaking countries (as listed).

Victoria

OK, I defer to your more extensive experience, Victoria. I just couldn't see where they explicitly accept a university letter.

[hsmp2010]

in current system

1. they need bachelors degree equivalent to UK degree from some university verified by NARIC.

Right?

2. for the same degree from same university they accept letter that course taught is in English? Right?

Hope it clarifies confusion.
NARIC is just for verifying degree equivalency . they r not for grading these degrees for english comptenancy.

So its now more easy

[MrBaboo]

in current system

1. they need bachelors degree equivalent to UK degree from some university verified by NARIC.

Right?

Correct

2. for the same degree from same university they accept letter that course taught is in English? Right?

Currently correct. Victoria seems to think this will continue and I trust in her judgement however I don't see that in the pdf at all.

Hope it clarifies confusion.
NARIC is just for verifying degree equivalency . they r not for grading these degrees for english comptenancy.

So its now more easy

Well, you haven't really clarified anything - everything you said I already knew.

I'm simply saying that the PDF is ambiguous about whether NARIC will *in the new system* take on a new role as verifying the course was delivered in English (either as oposed to or in addition to letters to that effect from universities). You can read it either way. NARICs goal is "providing information and expert opinion on vocational, academic and professional skills and qualifications from over 180 countries worldwide" so it's well within their realms of experience to comment on whether the the course was taught in English.

It's all academic until we get the finer details on the process.

[gordon]

If NARIC do take on the responsibility of verifying English language instruction (and I agree that the verbiage in the SoI is vague on this point), it strikes me that this would be quite reasonable. After all, they've enough information to determine the equivalency of institution-specific degrees awarded overseas to UK degrees; surely that same information would (or could) comprise language of instruction. In fact, I would be very surprised if it did not already do so.

I had done my bachelor's degree at an American university, and when I requested that letter on the medium of instruction, the dean asked me (in earnest) whether I was joking. The whole exercise was utterly ridiculous, and I'm pleased to see that the BIA have now included a list of countries from which English-language ability would be self-evident in the country of origin. That's vastly more sensible.

AG

[VictoriaS]

My understanding is that NARIC will not take on this role, they will simply verify that the degree is a degree level, and the applicant will have to get the letter confriming the course was taught in English, as they do now.

Look at Annex B, top of page 11, for the requirements.

One worry - it says the applicant must come from an English majority country to not have to supply a letter or qualification. So what happens to Indian nationals who do their degrees in the US? WIll they still need the letter? It looks as though they will!

Victoria

[vora]

One thing which i dont understand is, what is the point in having points for English language & funds requirement? One needs to get 75 points in order to qualify and these points (language & funds) do not count towards that total, then why awarding points instead of just saying Yes/No, just like it is currently for english language requirement?

[gordon]

I expect it will work out as you say, regardless how much one might wish it otherwise. Frankly, though, the scenario you pose (equally true for overseas graduates of US and UK universities) illustrates very well why NARIC should take on that role. The cynic in me thinks that they have no problem wasting people's time so long as it's not their own.
AG

My understanding is that NARIC will not take on this role, they will simply verify that the degree is a degree level, and the applicant will have to get the letter confriming the course was taught in English, as they do now.

Look at Annex B, top of page 11, for the requirements.

One worry - it says the applicant must come from an English majority country to not have to supply a letter or qualification. So what happens to Indian nationals who do their degrees in the US? WIll they still need the letter? It looks as though they will!

Victoria

[global gypsy]

One worry - it says the applicant must come from an English majority country to not have to supply a letter or qualification. So what happens to Indian nationals who do their degrees in the US? WIll they still need the letter? It looks as though they will!

And how about the converse scenario...how will an American who studied in a country such as India be treated? Is it the nationality of the applicant that matters or where they studied?

It seems they have left their options open with the disclaimer "The Statement reflects our current thinking which could change before the tier begins to be implemented in the first quarter of 2008, or at any point afterwards." [Section 2, page 4]
Methinks they will keep changing the criteria in the future on a 'dynamic basis'
(What else is new, eh?)

[global gypsy]

Hmm, and they have slipped in 'compulsory identity cards for foreign nationals' - it seems this is just about the only significant change in this much-trumpeted old wine in new bottle.

In the spirit of the holiday season...BA HUMBUG!!!

[Hiro]

True that. The only statement on the HO page is:

Jacqui Smith said "That’s why we’re launching the countdown to our new Points Based System which will begin in less than 100 days." - 5 December 2007

Until the final guidelines come out...there will be some noise, assumptions and misinterpretations here and there...

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=53816

It's on post 6 of this thread.

Is there a link to a Home Office site which backs this up?

Victoria

Good point. It could just be noise generated by news agencies.

[VictoriaS]

Global gypsy - it looks to be regarding the nationality, not country fo study. I think this needs to be pointed out.

Vora - there are points for language. Not for finance, but in a way this is a good thing in that everyone knows how much they need and so ECO's can't dismiss candidates on a whim.

Victoria

[rely]

Also OISC registered and qualified professionals lose business to these unregulated overseas based agents.
something should have been done here.
rely

The new system also means that immigration consultants have now lost half their business and revenue streams...

Hehehe! It is possible that this will be the case, though obviously we will still assist with in country applications, and judging by the questiosn so far we will still be needed to advise applicants from overseas.

I actually worry that the fact that applications are from overseas means that more people will go to potentially dodgy and unregulated agents overseas, where they have redress if it goes wrong. But that is something the OISC have already brought up with BIA, and BIA seem not to care.

I look forward to catching up with this thread later tonight.


Victoria

[hari15]

It a really good news for many HSMP holders who were worrying about changes in HSMP. Many thought it will go to tougher side. Thank god its not

I think Combining Enterpreneurs & Investors along with HSMP and naming it as 'Tier1' is the only major change done

Everything looks fine. But few things need to be clarified

1. For extension application they said they will take the age of initial application into consideration. Is this age when we apply for Initial HSMP or age when we apply for FLR (Passport stamping) or the Date of passport stamping?
(or)
Will they consider the age while application is made as before?

2. Before we can apply atmost 5 weeks before the date of expiry will that still holds true? Have they made any changes to this days?

3. Now what is the requirement of IELTS score. Is the 6.0 is valid anymore or we require more points?

and Regarding Transitional arrangements, will it be available for HSMP holders who got Initial HSMP approved after Dec 2006 and not qualifying under present scheme?

[global gypsy]

Global gypsy - it looks to be regarding the nationality, not country fo study. I think this needs to be pointed out.

Hmm, seems counter-intuitive to me. You could have the case of an American national who grew up/studied in, say, Mexico, and is fully conversant in Spanish but doesn't know much of English. Compare this with an Indian citizen who did his undergrad study in the US and is very conversant in English.

As always, they don't seem to have thought thru these things.
Oh well...