a pakistani married with a latvian girl

[shandave2001]

To ghazanfar

I m not sure if u r still reading this thread, as some people hijacked it for their personal conclusions. If u r still reading, any update on ur case?

[Frontier Mole]

AM00

Wow, though newbie, but I have to say very logical.

I have seen Wanderer's previous posts, there is something dodgy.

I agree with AM00, Wanderer's marriage with a Russian girl seems marriage of concenience.

So an example of a thief shouting thief thief

He is NOT married to a Russian girl!

Yet another brainless post from another newbie dullard.......

[shandave2001]

I didn't say "Street Gangster" for nothing, u prove it each time u say anything.

One doesn't have to get married, 2 years cohabitation suffice, the word married has been used cas the legal term of "marriage of convenience", there is no alternative legal term of "cohabitation of convenience".

[Frontier Mole]

Funny everything you say is total pants.

A marriage of connivance is exactly what it says, A marriage.

Not a cohabitation of connivance or whatever other wonderful terms you use or can dream up.

Learn some immigration law and come back and talk to us when you grow up a bit.

As I said brainless newbie.

[Ben]

I must be really thick, but I've been racking my brains and just can't work out how a Russian female, present in the UK on a tier 1 post-study work visa, can use a British male to provide convenience - married other otherwise.

I'd love someone to tell me.

[shandave2001]

benifa, it is simple

A tier 1 post-study visa or any other such visa is not indefinite.

In such a case, 2 years cohabitation with British resident (indefinite leave holder or British citizen) akin to marriage in Britain provides the way out of marriage. Providing Russian girl hasn’t expired her visa during her stay in the UK, she can apply for 2 years’ leave after 2 years continue cohabitation akin to marriage. She will be provided with 2 years’ leave (probationary period), after competition of this 2 years, if they r still together, she will get indefinite leave to remain in the UK. On the other hand, if she get married, no cohabitation period required and she will get 2 years leave straight way, and then after 2 years, indefinite leave to remain.

In case her visa is expired or she leaves voluntarily back to Russia, her spouse can sponsor her on spouse visa from Russia by fulfilling ordinary rules.

There are many who are in similar situations and seek a relationship of convenience with one who is permanently resident in UK in order to continue stay here, or get permanent stay.

There is 2nd route under EU law:
Surender Sing approach, as u r in Ireland (Irish Republic), many people use Ireland for this purpose, I hope u should be aware of this. Namely, EEA national needs to stay for 6 months in other EEA country, exercise his treaty right and then come back to UK with non-EEA getting FP and then 5 years residence card in UK.

Interestingly, in one case, House of Lords has pointed out that it doesn’t matter if the couples use Surender Sing rule to circumvent the national immigration law.

[Ben]

Thanks shandave2001 for answering the question. I hadn't thought of much of what you have mentioned, with regards to UK national law.

Just on this though:

There is 2nd route under EU law:
Surender Sing approach, as u r in Ireland (Irish Republic), many people use Ireland for this purpose, I hope u should be aware of this. Namely, EEA national needs to stay for 6 months in other EEA country, exercise his treaty right and then come back to UK with non-EEA getting FP and then 5 years residence card in UK.

To clarify,
1. EEA national is not required to stay at least six months in the other Member State. There is no minimum time period.
2. The Treaty right exercised in the other Member State must be in an economic capacity.
3. No need for EEA FP under EU law, if in possession of a Residence Card issued in accordance with the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC. No need for EEA FP if entering the UK from Ireland even if the non-EEA family member is not in possession of such RC (Stamp 4EUFam), due to the CTA and lack of border control in UK airports for flights arriving from Ireland.

Still, I accept that the "methods" you have highlighted are certainly viable ones, in which a non-EEA national can "make use of" a UK national.

[shandave2001]

Thanks shandave2001 for answering the question. I hadn't though of much of what you have mentioned, with regards to UK national law.

Just on this though:

There is 2nd route under EU law:
Surender Sing approach, as u r in Ireland (Irish Republic), many people use Ireland for this purpose, I hope u should be aware of this. Namely, EEA national needs to stay for 6 months in other EEA country, exercise his treaty right and then come back to UK with non-EEA getting FP and then 5 years residence card in UK.

To clarify,
1. EEA national is not required to stay at least six months in the other Member State. There is no minimum time period.
2. The Treaty right exercised in the other Member State must be in an economic capacity.
3. No need for EEA FP under EU law, if in possession of a Residence Card issued in accordance with the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC. No need for EEA FP if entering the UK from Ireland even if the non-EEA family member is not in possession of such RC (Stamp 4EUFam), due to the CTA and lack of border control in UK airports for flights arriving from Ireland.

Still, I accept that the "methods" you have highlighted are certainly viable ones, in which a non-EEA national can "make use of" a UK national.

Hi benifa

I will post ur points and then respond, so to make sure points are clarified. With no way I say I m exempt from mistakes.

U say:
1. "EEA national is not required to stay at least six months in the other Member State. There is no minimum time period."

The situation we are discussing is where one of the couple is British citizen (Wanderer). He cannot use EU rights in UK for his non-EEA spouse/partner because he is not from another EEA country as EU law requires.

To rephrase it, an EEA national cannot use EU law in his own country, it must be in another EEA country. So if a British citizen wants to use EU rights for this purpose in UK, he needs to stay in another EEA country for at least 6 months (by exercising EU treaty). There is minimum period if Britan citizen wants to come back to UK and claim EU rights for his non-EEA spouse/partner. This rule has been established by the Surender Sing decided by the ECJ. However, if British citizen wants to stay with his spouse in another EEA country (not returning back to UK and demanding EU rights), then of course no minimum period required.

U say:
2. "The Treaty right exercised in the other Member State must be in an economic capacity."

Not actually, it could be study, or no economic activity with sufficient funds; alongside with employment or self employment.

U say:
3. "No need for EEA FP under EU law, if in possession of a Residence Card issued in accordance with the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC. No need for EEA FP if entering the UK from Ireland even if the non-EEA family member is not in possession of such RC (Stamp 4EUFam), due to the CTA and lack of border control in UK airports for flights arriving from Ireland."

U r right in one way, however, this is something vary country to country as some countries are allowing with EEA residence card but asking non-EEA should be accompanied with EEA national spouse for entry purpose. There is separate thread in this forum where EEA countries which allow non-EEA spouse of EEA national have been mentioned.

Careful consideration should be paid in regard to travelling from Irish Republic to UK on EEA FP which mean a residence card of 5 years hasn't been issued yet and case is under consideration. I understand because of CTA, practically there wouldn't be any obstruction, but the question is whether it will be a legal stay in the UK. I m not aware of UK policy on EEA 5 year card from another EEA country, so wouldn't make assumption.

Definitely it will be problematic to travel any other EEA country based on EEA FP, there could be problem on return. I am saying that cas on even those who have been issued 5 years EEA spouse residence card, some EEA countries are asking schengen visa for non-EEA (though it is contrary to relevant EU directive).

Thank u benifa for ur comments, as someone talking sensible stuff in this thread.

[Ben]

..So if a British citizen wants to use EU rights for this purpose in UK, he needs to stay in another EEA country for at least 6 months (by exercising EU treaty). There is minimum period if Britan citizen wants to come back to UK and claim EU rights for his non-EEA spouse/partner. This rule has been established by the Surender Sing decided by the ECJ.

At least six months in another Member State, before returning to the UK, may be the UK's implemented interpretation of the Singh judgement, but it is not a stipulation laid out in the judgement itself. Even the UK accepts that at least six months in the other Member State is not imperative.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 70:EN:HTML

Not actually, it could be study, or no economic activity with sufficient funds; alongside with employment or self employment.

This Singh judgement makes explicit that the right to return to the EEA national's home State, to be treated as a national of another Member State, is conditional on the EEA national having pursued an economic activity in the other Member State.

U r right in one way, however, this is something vary country to country as some countries are allowing with EEA residence card but asking non-EEA should be accompanied with EEA national spouse for entry purpose. There is separate thread in this forum where EEA countries which allow non-EEA spouse of EEA national have been mentioned.

Indeed, is it a subject of debate. Hardest part being boarding the aircraft to the UK (convincing airport staff of one's right of entry). However, the UK would not be permitted to refuse entry to an EEA national, and his non-EEA national family members, if the party turn up at the border with their passports and proof of relationship. Visa-required nationals (as per 539/2001/EC), are exempt from the requirement to hold a visa, should they be in possession of a valid Residence Card described in Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC. This is why, to answer your original point, the EEA FP is a requirement of the UK EEA regulations which, in the circumstances mentioned, is not compatible with the Directive.

Careful consideration should be paid in regard to travelling from Irish Republic to UK on EEA FP which mean a residence card of 5 years hasn't been issued yet and case is under consideration. I understand because of CTA, practically there wouldn't be any obstruction, but the question is whether it will be a legal stay in the UK.

As you have said, practically speaking there would be no obstruction in entry to the UK from Ireland, sans EEA FP. The question of whether the stay in the UK would be legal is non-existent. In accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC, the right of a non-EEA family member to reside with his EEA family member, is acquired by virtue of his being a person described in Article 2(2) or Article 3(2) of the Directive. This right is not acquired by the issuance of a document by any Member State.

Definitely it will be problematic to travel on any other EEA country based on EEA FP, there could be problem on return. I am saying that cas on even those who have been issued 5 years EEA spouse residence card, some EEA countries are asking schengen visa for non-EEA (though it is contrary to relevant EU directive).

I agree with the latter part of that quoted, but thankfully this is changing. Slowly.

[Wanderer]

AM00

Wow, though newbie, but I have to say very logical.

I have seen Wanderer's previous posts, there is something dodgy.

I agree with AM00, Wanderer's marriage with a Russian girl seems marriage of concenience.

So an example of a thief shouting thief thief :o

I'm not married dood.

[Wanderer]

Dear Wanderer


There are increasingly English/British men who seek their brides from Russia, former Russian Block, Thailand and Philippines etc, as they know they will never be average enough... to establish relation with an English/British woman. So is ur marriage/relation is "marriage of convenience"?

I mean a typical example, a disfigured and big belly British man with pretty young Russian girl who is desperate to settle in the UK; will stay in relation until she gets permanent residence or fulfil her pecuniary dreams…).

Obviously these are not only the foreign MEN who can establish a marriage of convenience to stay in the UK. I am concern whether it is for nothing that a pretty Russian girl needs to come all the way from Russia to stay with a man in Leeds. People who know Rusian girls generally, they understand ur case better.

Interesting argument. The days of mummy-boy men looking to exploit their economic advantage in the Former Soviet Union are long gone, like in Russia etc is generally good - the only pickings now for the socially-challenged are the real bottom of the barrel. These guts are now looking for wherever the poorest girl are, and it's not the FSU now.

Anyway, I am (or was) a Russian language student, that's how I met mine, for what it's worth.

[shandave2001]

Dear Wanderer


There are increasingly English/British men who seek their brides from Russia, former Russian Block, Thailand and Philippines etc, as they know they will never be average enough... to establish relation with an English/British woman. So is ur marriage/relation is "marriage of convenience"?

I mean a typical example, a disfigured and big belly British man with pretty young Russian girl who is desperate to settle in the UK; will stay in relation until she gets permanent residence or fulfil her pecuniary dreams…).

Obviously these are not only the foreign MEN who can establish a marriage of convenience to stay in the UK. I am concern whether it is for nothing that a pretty Russian girl needs to come all the way from Russia to stay with a man in Leeds. People who know Rusian girls generally, they understand ur case better.

Interesting argument. The days of mummy-boy men looking to exploit their economic advantage in the Former Soviet Union are long gone, like in Russia etc is generally good - the only pickings now for the socially-challenged are the real bottom of the barrel. These guts are now looking for wherever the poorest girl are, and it's not the FSU now.

Anyway, I am (or was) a Russian language student, that's how I met mine, for what it's worth.

WHETHER MARRIED OR NOT

As clarified above, the term "marriage of convenience" was used to illustrate the "2 years' contiunue cohabitation akin to marriage" which provides the same rights as under marriage in UK law. In other words, u may call it cohabitation of convenience, but there is no such a legal term.

It doesn't matter whether the non-EEA marriaed or not, the ISSUE is whether she is using or will use such a relationship of convenience to stay in the uk. As in Britain, 2 years' contiunue cohabitation is accepted akin to marriage, there is no need of marriage. In such cases girls (Russian or otherwise) prefer not to marry, cas they know they will split up once the purpose is fulfilled and marry with choice the one they really love and is good match for them.

RUSSIA AND RUSSIAN GIRLS

It is true Russian economy has grown, she is better than it was in nineties (may be thanks to Putin). However, Russia is still not a developed country and some part of Russia are still poor where people struggle to carry out a ordinary life. So there are poor girls too.

However, poor or not, there is large number of girls in Russia who are attracted to UK but visa from Moscow is tough and involve a long and hard task. Even if such a vis a is obtained, it is usually visit or study visa. The forrmer, doesn't allow work/employent in UK at all and expire after 6 months and not extendable, the later (student visa) allow only 20 hours PW of work BUT only as long as studies go or student visa remains valid. Neither of these visas provide potential rights available to permanent residents in the UK.

Wanderer wrote:
"the only pickings now for the socially-challenged are the real bottom of the barrel."

I agree with this. I see and meet these real bottom of the barrels almost regularily. It is usualy a British man in his fifties and and a foreign wife which is usually Russian (former SB), Thai or Philpino girl in her twenties. Some are sponsered on spouse visa and other assisted on their student visas (requirement of accomodation and maintenance etc), and also free residence on arrival in UK, in return, they become partners of men who dislike if one call it relatioship of convenience as they feel insulted. So I understand the Wanderer's problem. Statics show such a route has been used mostly by British men rather than foreigners as British men take advantage of their secured immigration status.

Meet such a couple after couple of years, they would have separated. In 95% cases girls leave men once purpose has fulfilled. When girls get permamnent stay (no more immigration problem), has learnt English language, got a good job and have savings on their own, have few good friends then the objective point for them becomes whether there is any point to live with an old man in Leeds anymore?

It is irrelevant whether one meet while learning Russian language or otherwise.

I was agrred with AM00 that Wanderer's relationship with a Russian girls is one of relationship of convenience. The potential evidence are Wanderer's posts in different threads, in some, he has been asking advice in this regard....). Having met many such couples, I understand Wanderer's problem and why he denies this as a relatioship of convenience. But there is no need to relate this issue with one's personal manhood pride...), it is just reality.

[Wanderer]

Troll Bell has finally gone off.

I think I'll bow out of this now, me to my life and you to your sock drawer....

[shandave2001]

benifa

U raised interesting and valued points. I will read Sing case fully, its effect in UK and current Home Office policy in this regard next week some time and will come back. Thank u for clarification anyway.

[shandave2001]

..So if a British citizen wants to use EU rights for this purpose in UK, he needs to stay in another EEA country for at least 6 months (by exercising EU treaty). There is minimum period if Britan citizen wants to come back to UK and claim EU rights for his non-EEA spouse/partner. This rule has been established by the Surender Sing decided by the ECJ.

At least six months in another Member State, before returning to the UK, may be the UK's implemented interpretation of the Singh judgement, but it is not a stipulation laid out in the judgement itself. Even the UK accepts that at least six months in the other Member State is not imperative.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 70:EN:HTML

Not actually, it could be study, or no economic activity with sufficient funds; alongside with employment or self employment.

This Singh judgement makes explicit that the right to return to the EEA national's home State, to be treated as a national of another Member State, is conditional on the EEA national having pursued an economic activity in the other Member State.

U r right in one way, however, this is something vary country to country as some countries are allowing with EEA residence card but asking non-EEA should be accompanied with EEA national spouse for entry purpose. There is separate thread in this forum where EEA countries which allow non-EEA spouse of EEA national have been mentioned.

Indeed, is it a subject of debate. Hardest part being boarding the aircraft to the UK (convincing airport staff of one's right of entry). However, the UK would not be permitted to refuse entry to an EEA national, and his non-EEA national family members, if the party turn up at the border with their passports and proof of relationship. Visa-required nationals (as per 539/2001/EC), are exempt from the requirement to hold a visa, should they be in possession of a valid Residence Card described in Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC. This is why, to answer your original point, the EEA FP is a requirement of the UK EEA regulations which, in the circumstances mentioned, is not compatible with the Directive.

Careful consideration should be paid in regard to travelling from Irish Republic to UK on EEA FP which mean a residence card of 5 years hasn't been issued yet and case is under consideration. I understand because of CTA, practically there wouldn't be any obstruction, but the question is whether it will be a legal stay in the UK.

As you have said, practically speaking there would be no obstruction in entry to the UK from Ireland, sans EEA FP. The question of whether the stay in the UK would be legal is non-existent. In accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC, the right of a non-EEA family member to reside with his EEA family member, is acquired by virtue of his being a person described in Article 2(2) or Article 3(2) of the Directive. This right is not acquired by the issuance of a document by any Member State.

Definitely it will be problematic to travel on any other EEA country based on EEA FP, there could be problem on return. I am saying that cas on even those who have been issued 5 years EEA spouse residence card, some EEA countries are asking schengen visa for non-EEA (though it is contrary to relevant EU directive).

I agree with the latter part of that quoted, but thankfully this is changing. Slowly.

Hello

I have now chance to look these issues. I don’t mean to bounce back just for the sake of it, but I m concern about some practical issues. I may be getting bit academic on this but again there are issues.

PERIOD NEEDED TO STAY IN OTHER EEA COUNTRY UNDER SURINDER SINGH:

I understand the 2006 UK regulations are designed to implement the Directive 2004/38/EC (Directive), not the other way round. I also understand under the settled case of Van Duyan and some other cases decided by the ECJ, many or indeed most of the provisions of the Directive will have direct effect, being sufficiently clear, precise and unconditional.

It is true and Benifa is right that no specific period for a non-EEA has been specified in Surinder Singh and 6 months is mere interpretation by the UK. Also even UK may move back from 6 months period requirement in particular circumstances. However, what will be the situation if the couple go to another EEA country, work for a week and come back to the original country and claim FP under Surinder Singh? Would a week suffice under Surinder Singh? If yes, would it be a correct interpretation of the Surinder Singh?

In my opinion, despite the substantive and procedural conditions imposed on the exercise of the exceptions in the Directive, the ECJ has nonetheless always made clear that states retain certain discretion as regards the public policy exception. Since the particular circumstances justifying recourse to the concept of public policy may vary from one country to another and from one period to another, states may act accordingly. Or as ECJ phrased it in case C-268/99 Jany, 'no uniform code of values’ is imposed by EC law.

In Surinder Singh itself, the ECJ clearly considered that the period of working actively in other Member State made all the difference and enabled Mr Singh to claim rights as the spouse of an EEA worker. It is worth noting that Surinder Singh and his partner had worked in Germany for years and that was one of the foundation points in this case.

In such a situation, if a couple has worked less than 6 months in another EEA country and there is no exceptional circumstance, the UK may refuse to grant FP. In such a case, it will be difficult to challenge the UK in ECJ or in national courts as 6 months period requirement seems reasonable interpretation of Surinder Singh.

TO PURSUE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IN OTHER EEA COUNTRY UNDER SURINDER SINGH:

According to how this has been interpreted so far, Benifa is right on this that it is economic activity which is required under Surinder Singh excluding Students and Self sufficient.

Arguably the most problematic point here is the exclusion of the family members of the self-sufficient. Let us imagine that a non-worker (thus, a student, a volunteer or even a pensioner) migrates to another EEA State fulfilling all the requirements of Community law and exercising Community Law rights there. Perhaps the spouse travels with them or there, they meet and marry a third country national Partner, or perhaps the spouse gains entry to that other Member State under its own family reunification law. They then wish to return to the UK.

There seems to be nothing in Surinder Singh, or its reasoning, that would suggest that Community law rights should follow the student or the pensioner home to the UK any less than the worker - but admittedly there is little by way of explicit confirmation that Surinder Singh extends beyond the economically active to the self-sufficient. This exclusion has been in the previous Regulations so perhaps it is not surprising that it remains here. It does however seem a rather unnecessary and somewhat mean-spirited and minimalist approach to the Singh issue. I believe one day, one may challenge whether only the economic activity is correct interpretation of Surinder Singh, or even, interpretation should be taken from Surinder Sigh at all for this side issue.

TRAVEL WITH EEA FP ISSUE:

It is true that according to Directive EEA FP holders should be allowed to travel within EEA without visas. However, I meant, in fact, some EEA countries still demad visas from EEA FP holders, though contrary to Directive, so care should be taken. Of course it can be challenged, but, at least, still, those countries are getting away by demading visa from EEA FM holders.

[shandave2001]

It will be interesting to find out how other EEA countries interpret Surinder Singh

[shalimar]

I was just surfing around and came across this question and read all the posted comments, it has been a while since this guy asked the question about moving to Uk with his Lativian wife, i was wondering as lots of time has been passed away , where are they now and who has dumped whom in the case of success or unsuccess of the desired intention !!!

[ajmal]

I wish those comments were rubbish, I would love to see them proved rubbish but they are in fact not. As I mentioned, I am living here in Poland with my Polish wife and its been more than a year now.

As for the explanation you asked for ( even though your question is what actually rubbish is called ), I met my wife 6 years ago when I was in Pakistan and Poland was not a member of the EU and I had no idea whatsoever in my mind of moving to europe some day. Instead we have been actually planning to move to somewhere in Mideast after finishing studies. However, my father had different plans for me and being from a strict conservative and traditionalist family, I had no choice but to listen ( your nick says Khan, if you are really a Khan, you should know what I am talking about ) he had dreams of his son getting educated in Englastan, the country of 'Farangi' ( thats what the British were called when they were our rulers ) and I ended up in UK.
After we both finished studies, we were planning to go to Pakistan so she would see my family ( I had already seen her's as I was here a couple of times ) but even though my mum was excited as she already knew about my girl, my father went mad when my mom told him
about the 'white, christian girl from the West' .

We spent the next couple of months figuring out what to do and within this time, my father back home managed to fix my marriage with a girl I had never seen never heard. So the first thing that came to my mind
was to get married with my girl-friend right away so there would be no threat of being forced by my family and so we got married. None of us
was feeling good about it because we had different plans for our Big Day. The next question was where to stay ? As my girl's family
had no such objection on our relationship, Poland seemed the best choice. We wanted to stay in UK originally but although I could get
a job easily, my wife couldn't find the work she wanted and I didn't want her to end up packing in a factory or filling shelves in a supermarket after studying hard for six years to get her degree. When I came to Poland, I was on a visit visa which is not changeable to any work permit
( even though finding a job in here if you don't speak polish is itself second to impossible ) while being in Poland. I could either
go back to Pakistan and apply for work visa from there, get visa to another country and then apply from there or just stay in poland
and apply for work visa based on my wedding and the last option seemed the easiest ( what would you do in such a case ? ) and so
here I am, a Pakistani married to a Polish girl living in Poland !

My father hasn't spoken to me for the last two years since he came to
know about my wife and he has vowed never to see my face again, I had to meet my mother outside when I went to visit her because
I couldn't go home as my father had threatened me never to step in his house and so many other things. No normal person would do
this just to get a stay in europe would he ?

Having said that, its not a crime for a Pakistani to get married with a Polish is it ? The question is not about nationality, race, religion or
ethnicity, the question is about what do you have on your mind.
I have been living in Poland for the last one and a half year and I am still waiting to see a genuine relationship of this sort but I hear every now
and then about some Pakistani, Indian or African using an eastern european girl for immigration purposes and I am not talking about reading in the newspaper, I am talking about what I see around me in real life.

I am not into generalisation, in fact thats the last thing I would do looking at what I have been through simply because of generalisation
but this post is clearly a marriage of convenience. I would love to ask the same questions as Wanderer asked for example !

As for the community thing, I care about my community, my people and the country I come from and this is why I oppose in whatever way possible ( and I wish I could actually stop ) these black sheeps. There are more than 170 million Pakistanis living back home but just because of a few such morons, all of the 170 million become suspects and this is what I can't tolerate !!

Good good very good what do you think about you ? Doing ZINA before marriage an then blaming your father , he is 100% right. You are also giving good name to your nationality.

[dublin3]

I couldn't find this thread before I am glad someone found it I am really happy for that guys who brought up the point about russian girls and their ways of getting residency.
well I will come back to thread tomorrow morning and read it again.

[dublin3]

Dear Wanderer


There are increasingly English/British men who seek their brides from Russia, former Russian Block, Thailand and Philippines etc, as they know they will never be average enough... to establish relation with an English/British woman. So is ur marriage/relation is "marriage of convenience"?

I mean a typical example, a disfigured and big belly British man with pretty young Russian girl who is desperate to settle in the UK; will stay in relation until she gets permanent residence or fulfil her pecuniary dreams…).


Obviously these are not only the foreign MEN who can establish a marriage of convenience to stay in the UK. I am concern whether it is for nothing that a pretty Russian girl needs to come all the way from Russia to stay with a man in Leeds. People who know Rusian girls generally, they understand ur case better.

Interesting argument. The days of mummy-boy men looking to exploit their economic advantage in the Former Soviet Union are long gone, like in Russia etc is generally good - the only pickings now for the socially-challenged are the real bottom of the barrel. These guts are now looking for wherever the poorest girl are, and it's not the FSU now.

Anyway, I am (or was) a Russian language student, that's how I met mine, for what it's worth.

WHETHER MARRIED OR NOT

As clarified above, the term "marriage of convenience" was used to illustrate the "2 years' contiunue cohabitation akin to marriage" which provides the same rights as under marriage in UK law. In other words, u may call it cohabitation of convenience, but there is no such a legal term.

It doesn't matter whether the non-EEA marriaed or not, the ISSUE is whether she is using or will use such a relationship of convenience to stay in the uk. As in Britain, 2 years' contiunue cohabitation is accepted akin to marriage, there is no need of marriage. In such cases girls (Russian or otherwise) prefer not to marry, cas they know they will split up once the purpose is fulfilled and marry with choice the one they really love and is good match for them.

RUSSIA AND RUSSIAN GIRLS

It is true Russian economy has grown, she is better than it was in nineties (may be thanks to Putin). However, Russia is still not a developed country and some part of Russia are still poor where people struggle to carry out a ordinary life. So there are poor girls too.

However, poor or not, there is large number of girls in Russia who are attracted to UK but visa from Moscow is tough and involve a long and hard task. Even if such a vis a is obtained, it is usually visit or study visa. The forrmer, doesn't allow work/employent in UK at all and expire after 6 months and not extendable, the later (student visa) allow only 20 hours PW of work BUT only as long as studies go or student visa remains valid. Neither of these visas provide potential rights available to permanent residents in the UK.

Wanderer wrote:
"the only pickings now for the socially-challenged are the real bottom of the barrel."

I agree with this. I see and meet these real bottom of the barrels almost regularily. It is usualy a British man in his fifties and and a foreign wife which is usually Russian (former SB), Thai or Philpino girl in her twenties. Some are sponsered on spouse visa and other assisted on their student visas (requirement of accomodation and maintenance etc), and also free residence on arrival in UK, in return, they become partners of men who dislike if one call it relatioship of convenience as they feel insulted. So I understand the Wanderer's problem. Statics show such a route has been used mostly by British men rather than foreigners as British men take advantage of their secured immigration status.

Meet such a couple after couple of years, they would have separated. In 95% cases girls leave men once purpose has fulfilled. When girls get permamnent stay (no more immigration problem), has learnt English language, got a good job and have savings on their own, have few good friends then the objective point for them becomes whether there is any point to live with an old man in Leeds anymore?

It is irrelevant whether one meet while learning Russian language or otherwise.

I was agrred with AM00 that Wanderer's relationship with a Russian girls is one of relationship of convenience. The potential evidence are Wanderer's posts in different threads, in some, he has been asking advice in this regard....). Having met many such couples, I understand Wanderer's problem and why he denies this as a relatioship of convenience. But there is no need to relate this issue with one's personal manhood pride...), it is just reality.

you are a star man I never ever thought that people can take benefit of their immigration status like that.. sham on them..
I like when you said,
thief shouting thief thief..ha hah ah

[dublin3]

What Inwarsaw wrote is nothing more then a story which he got from an Indian rubbish KABHI KHUSHI KABHI GHAM.
He tried to make his story look better.
His username should be STORYMAKER instead of Inwarsaw.
He has stopped visiting this forum since mid 2008 I think he has been issued EEA family permit for UK