Travel to Schengen, without visa, for EEA-family members

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Dear All,

Thank you very much for such an informative post and links. I have gone through the post and have seen 2 different scenarios "Part 1" and "Part 2" in the beginning. My question is a little bit different and I really appreciate the reply from experts and seniors.

The scenario is as follows:

• You are a family-member of an EEA-citizen (e.g. non EU parents of EU citizen) AND

• Legally living inside the EU and inside Schengen area AND

• You have been given a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen"

In this case - Are you legally entitled to travel to all of the EEA including UK, as long as your EU family member travels with you, or you "join the EU family member".?

Thanks and regards

The general answer to your question is yes.

However, the UK does not currently recognise other EU issued residence cards and so is an exception.

In addition for Schengen issued residents cards or permits, other Schengen countries will recognise these irrespective of whether the holder is traveling alone or with family member and whether they were issued under the terms of the directive or national legislation.

[mazhar-uk]

Thank you "EUSmile" !!

Have you got any idea why UK doesn't recognise other EU issued residence cards? Were they allowed to choose or amend/translate the directive?

However, the UK does not currently recognise other EU issued residence cards and so is an exception.

AND if a UK citizen is coming back from any other country after using his/her treaty rights and want to bring his dependants with them in this case non EU parents then what would they have to do? Would they have to apply for EEA family permit before coming back to UK?

Thanks and regards

[John G]

Hi All,

Just a quick update re my earlier posts on this thread!

We went to Paris on the weekend (20/7/2012 to 23/7/2012) to watch the Tour De France arrive in Paris. We went via the Eurostar.

I am very happy to say we had absolutely no issue with getting past the border guards at London or Paris.



We really enjoyed Paris and the TdF too!

They did stamp my partners passport though, going out to Paris and coming back to London. The stamp is a really cute one, with a little train on the top right hand corner, date in the middle and at the bottom the words "LFT LONDRES A140" and on way back it says "LFT PARIS NORD A136".

I knew they didn't have the right to do this, but wasn't in the mood to argue! I was just glad we got through easily and without a "pitch battle"! ... I was fully prepared in case they where up for a fight though! jejeje LoL

I will inform the French consulate people so they know the score and can inform people correctly next time!.... took like 20 e-mails to get a straight answer from em, INEPT!

Any ways, I hope my experience will help anyone in a similar situation! So if you are travelling to Europe, be rest assured your partner has full travel rights with EEA Visa so long as they are travelling with you ie an EU National!

Thanks

John

[John G]

Moderator EDIT (ca.funke): Removed real names of case workers

FYI below e-mail I sent TLS, read from the bottom! .... these inept people need to be told!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John G
Date: 27 July 2012 08:36
Subject: Further to our previous e-mails
To: xxx xxx <xxx.xxx@tlscontact.com>


Hi xxx,

I hope this e-mail finds you well!

Further to our e-mail correspondence below, just a quick e-mail to update you.

We went to Paris on the weekend (20/7/2012 to 23/7/2012 with my partner and daughter) to watch the Tour De France arrive in Paris. We went via the Eurostar.

I am very happy to say we had absolutely no issue with getting past the border guards at London or Paris.

We really enjoyed Paris and the TdF too!

The border guards did stamp my partners passport though, going out to Paris and coming back to London. The stamp is a really cute one, with a little train on the top right hand corner, date in the middle and at the bottom the words "LFT LONDRES A140" and on way back it says "LFT PARIS NORD A136".

I knew they didn't have the right to do this, but wasn't in the mood to argue! I was just glad we got through easily and without a "pitch battle"! ... I was fully prepared in case they where up for a fight though! jejeje LoL

Can you please make a note of my experience for your future reference and in addition inform ALL your staff at TLS that deal with French Visa questions about my experience, so that in the future, if someone e-mails you that is in a similar situation to mine, you can give them a clear and correct answer.

Thanks again for your time and I hope you have a great weekend!

Best Regards

John

On 26 June 2012 13:07, John G wrote:

Hi xxx,

I hope this e-mail finds you well.

Further to below, have you been able to gain clarification on my question?

Thanks in advance

John


On 13 June 2012 10:56, John G wrote:

Hi xxx,

Thank you for the personal reply.

As I informed your work colleagues previously, Sandra has the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" valid until 18 July 2016. We have lived in London, UK since 2005 and now have a beautiful 7 month old daughter.

So we meet all the criteria that you outline!!!

However, I want clarification on what you mean by "official documentation to prove this relationship". We are not married and have lived in a de-facto relationship for the last 4 years, so we don't have a marriage certificate. What alternative documents would be sufficient?

Can you please check with the relevant legal authority at the French Consulate/Embassy in the UK? and if none in the UK, then the relevant legal authority in France?

I would like written confirmation via e-mail that my partner can travel with me to France without needing a Schengen Visa by virtue of having the following Visa: RESIDENCE DOCUMENTATION - Type of Document : Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National - valid until 14 June 2016?

Also, I don't understand why we even need to prove our relationship to the French Authorities! We have already proven our relationship to the UK border agency otherwise they would not have issued Sandra with the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" ! Are you telling me that the checks that the UKBA make are insufficiently stringent for the French Authorities? In addition, we also have a daughter together!

For your information, I have also e-mailed the Spanish and Italian consulate with the same question for trips we intend to take in August 2012 and they have both confirmed she has freedom of movement within Spain/Italy and in fact all EEA countries with the "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National" so long as she travels with me.

The only reason I am e-mailing you to confirm our EEA rights, is just to travel with peace of mind. If we happen to come across an over zealous French border guard that does not know/understand EU law then I can present the e-mail confirmation from yourself along with the relevant EU Directive printed out etc etc.

I have undertaken extensive research on this topic and the following link provides guidance on applying European Union Directive 2004/38/CE :

http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.en06.pdf

I also direct you to this immigration forum which has extensive information about this EU Directive and first hand experience from other EU citizens travelling under the EEA Residence card visa (both Married and in de facto relationships). It also has examples of EU citizens in de-facto relationships travelling to France without any problems:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=98029

I look forward to your prompt reply so we can finalise our trip to France ASAP.

Best Regards

John

On 12 June 2012 19:21, xxx xxx
<xxx.xxx@tlscontact.com> wrote:

Dear ,

I am writing on behalf of TLScontact center regarding your query about the Residency permit of a family member of EEA national.

Please note that if your British residency card states "Family Member of an EEA national", this family member is not a French or UK citizen, you have official documentation to prove this relationship and you are either travelling together with this person or going to meet them in France, you do not require a visa to travel. However, if you fail to meet any of these criteria, you do require a visa to travel. Please note the the exact words "Family Member of an EEA national" must be written on your residency card and that the quality of simply "being" a family member of an EEA national does not remove the passport holder's requirement to obtain a visa for travel.

In your case, if your partner will present residency permit card mentioned "Family Member of an EEA national", proof of relationship and you will be traveling together, your partner will not need visa to travel to France.

Should you have any other queries do not hesitate to contact us.

Best Regards,
--
xxx xxx
Operations Manager
www.tlscontact.com

[itbloke]

Hi, I am English Born & Bred, but my wife of five years is South African & has a Indefinite Leave to Remain UK Residents Permit, but it does not expressly say on it that, "that she is a family member of an EU/EEA National", she is about to apply to be naturalized as a UK citizen.

However in the meantime our work takes us to Spain quite very frequently, so I was wondering could you clarify if having an indefinite Leave to Remain, Residents Permit falls under section 2 above, IE:

You are a family-member of an EEA-citizen AND

Not (yet) in possession of the residence-card as per Part 1

In this case you are still legally entitled to travel to all of the EEA, as long as your partner travels with you."

If this is correct then the Spanish Embassy & consulate in London seem to know nothing about it & don't acknowledge it's existence, & simply keep trying to refer you to the third party company that now deals with there Visa applications for a fee. Having actually managed to speak to the third party company, they did know anything about this, & on explaining could not tell me if my wife actually needs a Visa.

Thank you for your time in this matter I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Kind Regard - Ashe.

PS, we where married in the UK & have a valid UK marriage certificate in English.

[ca.funke]

Hi itbloke,

If this is correct then the Spanish Embassy & consulate in London seem to know nothing about it & don't acknowledge it's existence, & simply keep trying to refer you to the third party company that now deals with there Visa applications for a fee. Having actually managed to speak to the third party company, they did know anything about this, & on explaining could not tell me if my wife actually needs a Visa.

That´s exactly the way it is!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi, I am English Born & Bred, but my wife of five years is South African & has a Indefinite Leave to Remain UK Residents Permit, but it does not expressly say on it that, "that she is a family member of an EU/EEA National", she is about to apply to be naturalized as a UK citizen.

However in the meantime our work takes us to Spain quite very frequently, so I was wondering could you clarify if having an indefinite Leave to Remain, Residents Permit falls under section 2 above, IE:

You are a family-member of an EEA-citizen AND

Not (yet) in possession of the residence-card as per Part 1

In this case you are still legally entitled to travel to all of the EEA, as long as your partner travels with you."

If this is correct then the Spanish Embassy & consulate in London seem to know nothing about it & don't acknowledge it's existence, & simply keep trying to refer you to the third party company that now deals with there Visa applications for a fee. Having actually managed to speak to the third party company, they did know anything about this, & on explaining could not tell me if my wife actually needs a Visa.

Thank you for your time in this matter I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Kind Regard - Ashe.

PS, we where married in the UK & have a valid UK marriage certificate in English.

As you have a residence permit and not an article 10 residence card, your wife would be advised to hold a visa. However, if she got to a border she could enter with you under article 5.4 of the directive. To do that she would need to convince an airline that she could travel and won't be denied entry.

However, she can apply for a free-facilitated visa under article 5.3 of the directive. Some embassies are better than others, having the UK residence permit in this instance will help in getting the visa.

[itbloke]

As you have a residence permit and not an article 10 residence card, your wife would be advised to hold a visa. However, if she got to a border she could enter with you under article 5.4 of the directive. To do that she would need to convince an airline that she could travel and won't be denied entry.

However, she can apply for a free-facilitated visa under article 5.3 of the directive. Some embassies are better than others, having the UK residence permit in this instance will help in getting the visa.

Hi thanks for your prompt reply & great information guys, can see this is going to be a bit of a problem, but I really feel it is worth fighting for as Spain is the default option for many Brits who want a quick cheap getaway & as I can testify from personal experience over the last five years this rule being so vague effectively discriminates against any Brit wanting a quick cheap last minute getaway to Spain.

Also I have spoken (in a very expensive call) - to the Visa company the Spanish embassy farm out to (VFS Global) & they say that they are unable to provide the Free Visa under 5.3 of the directive but the Spanish Embassy say all Visa's have to now be exclusively issued via VFS Global, which creates somewhat a chicken or an egg situation.

Now I have one thing in my favor here, I live in London literally just around the corner from the Spanish Embassy & I am self employed, so I can cause all kinds of stink for them, if you are indeed correct & officially my wife does have the right to enter Spain it is just people don't understand the law, it even says so on their website.

"Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state literally that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National, if not, a visa is required under the following conditions:"

I personally think that farming out to VFS Global is a cop out & needs to be addressed I am willing to take up the mantle here, but need to be sure of my facts first.

So, the situation is this, technically & legally my wife can enter Europe, even those the Spanish Embassy is denying this, but logistically there is no to facilitate our rights when we reach the Spanish border or even the Airline Check in.

I feel that something can be done about this if we are bloody minded enough & eloquent enough about the situation if we are truly correct.

Once again thanks for all you kind support in this matter, I look forward to your replies & getting my teeth into sorting out a possible resolution.

Kind Regards & Best Wishes - Ashe.[/i]

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

As you have a residence permit and not an article 10 residence card, your wife would be advised to hold a visa. However, if she got to a border she could enter with you under article 5.4 of the directive. To do that she would need to convince an airline that she could travel and won't be denied entry.

However, she can apply for a free-facilitated visa under article 5.3 of the directive. Some embassies are better than others, having the UK residence permit in this instance will help in getting the visa.

Hi thanks for your prompt reply & great information guys, can see this is going to be a bit of a problem, but I really feel it is worth fighting for as Spain is the default option for many Brits who want a quick cheap getaway & as I can testify from personal experience over the last five years this rule being so vague effectively discriminates against any Brit wanting a quick cheap last minute getaway to Spain.

Also I have spoken (in a very expensive call) - to the Visa company the Spanish embassy farm out to (VFS Global) & they say that they are unable to provide the Free Visa under 5.3 of the directive but the Spanish Embassy say all Visa's have to now be exclusively issued via VFS Global, which creates somewhat a chicken or an egg situation.

Now I have one thing in my favor here, I live in London literally just around the corner from the Spanish Embassy & I am self employed, so I can cause all kinds of stink for them, if you are indeed correct & officially my wife does have the right to enter Spain it is just people don't understand the law, it even says so on their website.

"Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state literally that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National, if not, a visa is required under the following conditions:"

I personally think that farming out to VFS Global is a cop out & needs to be addressed I am willing to take up the mantle here, but need to be sure of my facts first.

So, the situation is this, technically & legally my wife can enter Europe, even those the Spanish Embassy is denying this, but logistically there is no to facilitate our rights when we reach the Spanish border or even the Airline Check in.

I feel that something can be done about this if we are bloody minded enough & eloquent enough about the situation if we are truly correct.

Once again thanks for all you kind support in this matter, I look forward to your replies & getting my teeth into sorting out a possible resolution.

Kind Regards & Best Wishes - Ashe.[/i]

It will not be the first time that VFS give out incorrect or incomplete information.

Quote this Artículo 4. Entrada of real 240/2007 from Spanish national law.

La expedición de dichos visados será gratuita y su tramitación tendrá carácter preferente cuando acompañen al ciudadano de la Unión o se reúnan con él.

You don't need to worry about translation, it is effectively what article 5.4 of directive 2004/38/EC says.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Also I have spoken (in a very expensive call) - to the Visa company the Spanish embassy farm out to (VFS Global) & they say that they are unable to provide the Free Visa under 5.3 of the directive but the Spanish Embassy say all Visa's have to now be exclusively issued via VFS Global, which creates somewhat a chicken or an egg situation.

I have scoured VFS's website. I've found this information (hope it opens at the right bit).

http://es.vfsglobal.co.uk/eea_visafees.html

It does indeed claim that there is a EU60 fee. This is an error, whether deliberate or otherwise. There is also a £17 administration fee, which VFS are entitled to charge. However, for EU family members they are meant to be allowed to apply at the embassy direct and avoid this service fee. Please see the attached link and pay special attention to part 3 and 3.1 / 3.2 in particular.

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_en.pdf

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

You may find this interesting with respect to the fee

http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Consulados/L ... vices.aspx

Note in particular

There will be no charge for children under the age of 6. There will be no charge for the spouse and/or dependants of an EU citizen. However, proof of the relationship must be submitted at the time of application. This proof must be an original EU full national passport or national ID card and an original marriage certificate or civil partnership, (birth certificate in the case of children or dependants). Photocopies are not acceptable. Non EU Certificates should be legalised according to the 1961 Hague Convention.

And this in relation to spouses of EU nationals, who can avoid VFS.

http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Consulados/L ... vices.aspx

The service incurs a fee which does not included the application visa fee. Please note that this fee is due to VFS for the service provided.

Those applicants who prefer to address their application directly to this Consulate General, including spouses and partners, and family dependants of Spanish and UE citizens, should write a letter (phone calls, fax and e-mails will not be accepted) to this Consulate General that can be sent by post or delivered in person. The applicant will be given an appointment in the first available date and in strictly order of presentation. The appointment will be sent to you via post.

[ashpaul1]

Thanks for the thread very valuable information's

I recently started a thread asking the same question as my U.k Residence Card is expiring next month and we intend to fly to Spain.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 358#707358

[flashware]

My Tier 5 Visa has just expired, and as such I have a 5 week gap before the 6 months passes on my EEA2 application.

I may need to do a work trip to AMS in the next few weeks and wanted to clarify whether I may run into issues or not.

a) I'm a non-Visa national (Australian)
b) Wife is EEA (Irish)

From what I've read in the first post, I should qualify as "joining my wife"?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

My Tier 5 Visa has just expired, and as such I have a 5 week gap before the 6 months passes on my EEA2 application.

I may need to do a work trip to AMS in the next few weeks and wanted to clarify whether I may run into issues or not.

a) I'm a non-Visa national (Australian)
b) Wife is EEA (Irish)

From what I've read in the first post, I should qualify as "joining my wife"?

With your nationality, you should be fine (no visa normally required).

[flashware]

My Tier 5 Visa has just expired, and as such I have a 5 week gap before the 6 months passes on my EEA2 application.

I may need to do a work trip to AMS in the next few weeks and wanted to clarify whether I may run into issues or not.

a) I'm a non-Visa national (Australian)
b) Wife is EEA (Irish)

From what I've read in the first post, I should qualify as "joining my wife"?

With your nationality, you should be fine (no visa normally required).

So coming out of AMS they'd just go "Aussie passport, entering as tourist" ?

Hopefully they're not like the French, who as soon as they see the Visa will always then start to question that (given the date has now passed!).

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

So coming out of AMS they'd just go "Aussie passport, entering as tourist" ?

Hopefully they're not like the French, who as soon as they see the Visa will always then start to question that (given the date has now passed!).

If you are with your wife, you can always enter under article 5.4. Being a non-visa national means you are unlikely to have any problems with airlines, etc.

[flashware]

So coming out of AMS they'd just go "Aussie passport, entering as tourist" ?

Hopefully they're not like the French, who as soon as they see the Visa will always then start to question that (given the date has now passed!).

If you are with your wife, you can always enter under article 5.4. Being a non-visa national means you are unlikely to have any problems with airlines, etc.

As I'm heading over on business (our man office is in NL and I'm based in UK) my wife won't be with me.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

As I'm heading over on business (our man office is in NL and I'm based in UK) my wife won't be with me.

Directive 2004/38/EC does not apply to this particular trip. You will need to comply with this.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 032:EN:PDF

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

a) I'm a non-Visa national (Australian)
b) Wife is EEA (Irish)

From what I've read in the first post, I should qualify as "joining my wife"?

...but on your return, directive 2004/38/EC does apply as you will be "joining" your wife in the UK.

Life's easy for non-visa nationals.

[flashware]

As I'm heading over on business (our man office is in NL and I'm based in UK) my wife won't be with me.

Directive 2004/38/EC does not apply to this particular trip. You will need to comply with this.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 032:EN:PDF

Given it's a 32 page document, which section should I be focusing on?

[flashware]

a) I'm a non-Visa national (Australian)
b) Wife is EEA (Irish)

From what I've read in the first post, I should qualify as "joining my wife"?

...but on your return, directive 2004/38/EC does apply as you will be "joining" your wife in the UK.

Life's easy for non-visa nationals.

Ah, in which case I should be fine then? Speaking of which, my wife's passport arrived yesterday in her new name, so I assume easier to carry that, our wedding cert and a printout of the directive.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Given it's a 32 page document, which section should I be focusing on?

Annex 1 and article 5.

[flashware]

Given it's a 32 page document, which section should I be focusing on?

Annex 1 and article 5.

Thanks!

Looks like I won't need a visa due to holding an Australian passport.

http://www.minbuza.nl/en/services/consu ... ngen-visas
http://www.minbuza.nl/en/services/consu ... to-90-days

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Ah, in which case I should be fine then? Speaking of which, my wife's passport arrived yesterday in her new name, so I assume easier to carry that, our wedding cert and a printout of the directive.

As long as you can demonstrate that you are the family member of an EU national exercising treaty rights in the UK (worker, student, self-sufficient), you will be admitted to the UK under the regulations. I would have said, marriage certificate, copy of wife's passport, evidence that she is a worker, etc, but use your own judgement as to what to bring.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Looks like I won't need a visa due to holding an Australian passport.

Correct.