"Endorsement of passport" or family permit applica

[inselkind]

Hello everybody!

I'm using this forum the first time and hope I'm posting this in the right
way/place...

I'm german (EAA national) and my american husband and I are putting all documents together for his family permit application. On the official Border agency webside it states under the section Supporting documents
that we need "copy of EAA National's passport, endorsed by the EEA national's embassy in the country of application".

My question:

Does that mean I need to get my passport endorsed by the german embassy in the US (Country of application) if he would apply there in order to join me in the UK?!?
Or am I expected to get that done in Germany?
Nobodoy can really expect to travel to the country of application to get a document endorsed or not? And it doesn't make sense to me as then we would just travel and enter the Uk together anyway.

Could somebody clarify please please?
Is it not possible to get that done in the German embassy in London?

Thanks a lot for your help!!!!

[Jambo]

The text on the website just assumes you both are living in the same country so you either provide your passport or a certified copy. If you live in the UK and your spouse in the US, you can certify the copy in the consulate in London.
No one expects you to travel to the US or Germany for that.

You should be aware that if your spouse is American, he can just travel to the UK and seek entry at the port as a family member of EEA national. The EEA Family Permit is not mandatory.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

As Jambo pointed out, a US citizen does not require a visa according to the directive.

I specifically asked the question of the UKBA about endorsement of passports before applying and was told that it was not required (a copy would be fine).

[inselkind]

Thank you very much for your quick response. It's a relief to hear I should be able to get the endorsement done in london. Is the endorsement
the same like a certified copy?
I called the german embassy and there didn't seem sure what I wanted
(tried in english and german...).
Can I just get a stamp or whatever the embassy decides to do on a copy of my passport or do they need to sign off/stamp a letter stating that my
passport is genuine, the original, valid and belongs to me?

I guess I will just show up (they said no appointment needed) with a few copies of my passport and a drafted letter like that and see
what documention I'm able to get?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Usually an embassy can take a photocopy of the passport and stamp it (implying that the coy is genuine).

Are you aware that US citizens would not require a visa?

[inselkind]

Also, I forgot to add, my husband is on a Tier 1 visa which expires on 13/05/12 so I guess he needs to leave the country before hand and can't come straight back on a tourist visa or not? I thought he needs to be out of the country for a certain amount of time?
We only got married end of march, we didn't have enough time to apply
for a residence card and we are worried now what happens when his visa expires.
We sent a letter to Border Agency to notify them about change of circumstances that he is now the husband of a EAA National and therefore entitled to stay, but no reply. We don't want them to think he is overstaying his visa and then have problems so we thought he will leave the uk before his visa expires and come back with a family permit.
He might not go to the states and maybe he can just go to another country in europe, get the family permit granted and come back!
Due to work commitments I can't join him outside uk and come back with him together.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

You don't need to leave the country. You can apply for residence card tomorrow if you like.

[Jambo]

You could have told us that from the beginning

Once you are married and assuming you work in the UK, he is legal in the UK. He can't overstay his tier-1 and there is no need for him to leave the UK at all.

The EEA regulations are far more easy/relax than the UK immigrations rules. Under EEA regulations, his relationship with you is enough to make len legal in the country. There is no requirement to apply for permission from the HO. What is advisable to do is to ask the HO to confirm his rights by issuing a 5 years Residence Card.

Is he still in the UK? If not, he can return using his tier-1 visa if valid or enter as a EEA family member.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Also, I forgot to add, my husband is on a Tier 1 visa which expires on 13/05/12 so I guess he needs to leave the country before hand and can't come straight back on a tourist visa or not? I thought he needs to be out of the country for a certain amount of time? Don't know about tourist visas, but he does not have to leave the country.
We only got married end of march, we didn't have enough time to apply
for a residence card and we are worried now what happens when his visa expires. Once married, he is the family member of a union citizen (EU)
We sent a letter to Border Agency to notify them about change of circumstances that he is now the husband of a EAA National and therefore entitled to stay, but no reply. We don't want them to think he is overstaying his visa and then have problems so we thought he will leave the uk before his visa expires and come back with a family permit. You DO NOT need to do that.
He might not go to the states and maybe he can just go to another country in europe, get the family permit granted and come back! He could, but he does not need to do that.
Due to work commitments I can't join him outside uk and come back with him together. You can apply in the UK while you are in the UK

You can apply using EEA2 form. What are you doing in the UK (are you a worker, student, self-sufficient person)?[/i]

[Jambo]

One thing your husband should be aware of (although probably not an issue for a US citizen) is that for settlement (ILR/PR), you can't mix and match time under UK immigration rules and EEA regulations so by leaving the Tier-1 route his clock for settlement (and hence British citizenship) would reset.

If BC is a goal, he should consider extending the tier-1 visa (if he can).

[inselkind]

I am full time employed permanently (therefore excersing treaty rights) with supportive documentation to prove it.

My husband who has been living in the uk has been self employed (being a Project Manager doing his work purely online with his business partner in the states), but has been seeking employment in the uk for a while.

The problem we have is that his potentional new employer is not satisfied with his visa status as they say there is no official document stating he is allowed to work (such as a family permit or even better of course resident card) after his visa expires even though we can proof to them that he should as my husband (marriage certificate, work references etc.)
I guess everybody is worried to employ somebody illegally.

We know that we could apply for a residence card, but according to my research to get the letter of Certificate of Approval differs wildly even though they are supposed to submit it more or less immediately. 2 weeks seems to be for the lucky ones also reading about 2-3 month waiting time and then it is not guaranteed that the letter states that you are allowed to work and use it for the employer. We thought the family permit would be the quickest way to obtain the right to work in a official document.

Also, according to somebody I spoke to on the UK Border line he has to apply for a new visa, permit, resident card,...before his visa expires to ensure he is not considered an overstayer.
They said to apply for residence card (which we intend to do anyway, but are hesitant to give his passport away at the moment as we are a bit confused what implications that might entail), but if he doesn't receive the COA before his visa expires he doesn't have any proof of his status.

We initially thought as well since we are married we don't need to do anything even if his visa expires, but we got so much contradicting information right now and not getting a reply from UK BA doesn't help to put our mind at rest. We just don't want to break the law and do the right thing!

[Jambo]

2 weeks seems to be for the lucky ones also reading about 2-3 month waiting time and then it is not guaranteed that the letter states that you are allowed to work and use it for the employer. We thought the family permit would be the quickest way to obtain the right to work in a official document.

As you are married, the CoA is guaranteed to state he is allowed to work. It is different if you are unmarried partners. The problem with the EEA Family Permit is that is only valid for 6 months (as the CoA) so your husband will likely face with similar issues with employers not willing to employ someone with such a short "visa" and no guarantee what's next. Applying for EEA Family Permit can take 2-3 weeks even in the US so it is not quicker than waiting for CoA.

Also, according to somebody I spoke to on the UK Border line he has to apply for a new visa, permit, resident card,...before his visa expires to ensure he is not considered an overstayer.
They said to apply for residence card (which we intend to do anyway, but are hesitant to give his passport away at the moment as we are a bit confused what implications that might entail), but if he doesn't receive the COA before his visa expires he doesn't have any proof of his status.

This is not the first time the HO line is giving wrong information. Their statement was true if he was staying under the UK rules (Tier visas) but it is not true under the EEA regulations. Once you are married and you are working - he can't be overstayer/illegal.

We initially thought as well since we are married we don't need to do anything even if his visa expires, but we got so much contradicting information right now and not getting a reply from UK BA doesn't help to put our mind at rest. We just don't want to break the law and do the right thing!

You are doing the right thing and you are not breaking the law.

[inselkind]

Thank you very much all of you!!
I'm feeling much better now believing that he can't overstay his visa as my husband.
I guess we will straight away apply for a residence card and use his CoA as proof of his status when applying for jobs.

Just a couple of other questions and that I guess I have got everything sorted for a while (hopefully ):

After his tier1 visa has expired and before we have the residence card issued (which will take month's) he will have to come back on a family permit or is that not mandatory for him being american and my husband?

Secondly, if we would come back the first on a family permit (if required) and enter the Uk together I guess the endorsement in his passport will state that I accompany him. Is this only a formality on the first time of entry or does this statement require me always to enter the Uk with him after going abroad?
He is planning to go to a wedding in July in the US on his own (again I'm not getting time off to join him) and we don't know if he would have problems getting back to the UK when not with him.

Also, within the 6 month can he travel broad multiple times on the family permit? On the official UKBA webside it says you should apply for a resident card so " EAA Non-National do not need to apply for an EEA family permit EACH time they enter the UK after travelling abroad".
You surely don't need to get a new family permit EACH time you have travelled abroad and can use the granted, valid family permit
not only once to enter but multiple times for travelling?

Of course we would asked UKBA for his passport back in time after submitting application for residence card.

Thanks a lot for clarifying!!

[inselkind]

Thank you very much all of you!!
I'm feeling much better now believing that he can't overstay his visa as my husband.
I guess we will straight away apply for a residence card and use his CoA as proof of his status when applying for jobs.

Just a couple of other questions and that I guess I have got everything sorted for a while (hopefully ):

After his tier1 visa has expired and before we have the residence card issued (which will take month's) he will have to come back on a family permit or is that not mandatory for him being american and my husband?

Secondly, if we would come back the first on a family permit (if required) and enter the Uk together I guess the endorsement in his passport will state that I accompany him. Is this only a formality on the first time of entry or does this statement require me always to enter the Uk with him after going abroad?
If I double posted this my apologies, I just got a message that I just posted something already which I'm not aware of...
He is planning to go to a wedding in July in the US on his own (again I'm not getting time off to join him) and we don't know if he would have problems getting back to the UK when not with him.

Also, within the 6 month can he travel broad multiple times on the family permit? On the official UKBA webside it says you should apply for a resident card so " EAA Non-National do not need to apply for an EEA family permit EACH time they enter the UK after travelling abroad".
You surely don't need to get a new family permit EACH time you have travelled abroad and can use the granted, valid family permit
not only once to enter but multiple times for travelling?

Of course we would asked UKBA for his passport back in time after submitting application for residence card.

Thanks a lot for clarifying!!

[Jambo]

I guess we will straight away apply for a residence card and use his CoA as proof of his status when applying for jobs.

On his CV, I recommend not to use the word Visa or expiry. Just state: "Allowed to work in the the UK (family member of EU national)." Would at least get him past the first hurdle for the CV screening. If later on he is asked about a "visa", he can explain/produce the CoA.

After his tier1 visa has expired and before we have the residence card issued (which will take month's) he will have to come back on a family permit or is that not mandatory for him being american and my husband?

He can come back on a EEA Family Permit if he wishes or just show at the airport in the UK (as American he should not have problem boarding a flight). If showing up at the airport without the Family Permit, he will need to provide similar evidence to what the Family Permit requires - a copy of your passport, some recent payslips, a marriage certificate. Might need to spend a few minutes while the IO checks his story/documents but should be much quicker than getting to a consulate to submit an application. He should then be stamped with a 6 months entry. He will probably need to show the evidence every time he enters without a CoA/RC but once in the system, next time would be faster.

Secondly, if we would come back the first on a family permit (if required) and enter the Uk together I guess the endorsement in his passport will state that I accompany him. Is this only a formality on the first time of entry or does this statement require me always to enter the Uk with him after going abroad?

He could either accompany you or join you (the endorsement could say "to join xxx"). You don't need to travel together.

He is planning to go to a wedding in July in the US on his own (again I'm not getting time off to join him) and we don't know if he would have problems getting back to the UK when not with him.

Should not be an issue. If you apply now for RC, you should get the CoA by June and could ask for the passport then. Armed with a CoA (and the other evidence as backup), he should have no problems entering the UK (even without you).

Also, within the 6 month can he travel broad multiple times on the family permit?

The EEA Family Permit is a multiple entry visa but unless the British consulate is across the road from where he will be in the US, I would not bother applying for it.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

When does his Tier 1 visa expire?

When does he need new proof of the ability to work?

It is important that when he travels, he carry a photocopy of your passport or Ausweiss, and an original marriage certificate. It may also be good for him to carry one of your pay slips to prove you are working. This applies also when you travel together up until the point when he gets his Residence Card.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

As a non-visa national, he will have a much easier time explaining himself when he travels. He can apply for EEA2, ask for passport back along with COA. COA required for employer; passport for travel. Easy for some (does not work for visa nationals - the traveling part).

[mEEA]

I had the same problem. But we are both in Germany, and we submitted the original passport.

[inselkind]

Thanks for all you help and comments!
Hi "Directive/2004/38/EC", his tier1 visa expires on the 13/05/12 and he needs the proof that he is allowed to work now. We didn't expect this as we thought he has the right automatically being my husband and me excersising treaty rights which I have supportive documentation for.

We will apply for resident card now, but the CoA will be too late for us to
receive as the potential employer won't hang around waiting for that.

But we can do nothing if the employer is asking for a supportive document stating his right to live and work here till we have the CoA...

Yes, we thought that we will make sure he (or us) will always travel with following documents:

-certified copy of my passport (when he is on his own)
-a letter from me confirming our relationship and that he is joining me in uk (when he is on his own0
-our marriage certificate (good to know it should be the original, would
have taken copy)
-a couple of payslips from my work
-letter from my employer confirming my work status
-contract of the lease to confirm we live together

Then we hopefully should be fine travelling around even if he is on his own without having a family permit is that right?

[inselkind]

I mean, not travelling around, but not having trouble to enter the Uk again of course .

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I mean, not travelling around, but not having trouble to enter the Uk again of course :-).

He will be able to argue his case at the UK border if required. He will not be denied boarding because he is not a visa national. Arguing his case is demonstrating that he is the spouse of an EU national working and living in the UK.

[inselkind]

Meaning he doesn't need a family permit at all for travelling right?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Meaning he doesn't need a family permit at all for travelling right?

A non-visa national is in a very privileged position. They generally, can enter a state if they meet the requirements (enough money, etc). This lets them board an aircraft, that gets them to a border. An airline, generally is not afraid to let them board as they can show that they checked documents and that they were in order.

At the border, if one can show that one benefits from the directive, one has to be let in under the EU rules irrespective of what the national rules say.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Ok, so there is another option. He could get an EEA Family Permit. It explicitly allows him to work. It should be issued quickly and easily, and mostly usually is. He could apply in any city that has a British visa section worldwide. Should usually be issued within a week.

e.g. could apply in Dublin or Bonn (I think)

It is a short term solution until the RC is ready

Have you already sent the RC application?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

While this would be a possibility, there would be no guarantee that the visa would be issued within a week. A recent poster said around 10 days. Passport will be retained until the application is complete.

This would be an option if the OP can combine with a holiday somewhere.

In my experience a certificate of application can be issued within two weeks (similar timeline to family permit) - though others' have been longer.