Third party visa agent won't forward application to Embassy

[SRAQAI]

This is a long one, sorry! As some of you know, I had some issues around this time last year, in getting me husband over to France under the Directive 2004/38/EC. We never made the journey. The French Embassy in Pakistan uses a third party visa agent called Gerry's to take in applications and make appointments etc. We are planning to go to Paris this month, will be there for around 3 weeks and I want my husband to join me there. my husband went to the Gerry's office 4 times, along with:

1. Schengan Visa Application form

2. Our original marriage certificate

3. Marriage Certificate translated into French by alliance francaise, their 'official' translator.

4. Copy of my UK Passport and his own passport

5. A 3 page letter in French by a legal caseworker who was dealing with our case last year, explaining the Directives and our rights and what documents should and should not be requested for this application.

Gerry's, their third party agent knows nothing about the EU Laws or the directive and again they are treating my husband as any other Pakistani Citizen - outside the context of the directive. They requested the usual flight reservations, hotel reservation, pay slip, evidence he will return from france after visit, visa fees etc. They will not take my husbands application without these items, nor make an appointment with the embassy to get a visa issued.


Last year, we planned to go to Paris during the summer and it was a case of me emailing the French Embassy with a request for an appointment. My husband went for the appointment, but they treated him outside the context of the directive and wanted hotel reservations, itinerary etc... which they shouldn't be asking for. I got UK Solvit involved, namely Ms. Chris Korczs, involved who I might add was completely useless. Although she responded to me in a timely manner, the way she dealt with the case was much to be desired. Instead of helping, she put me around in circles, does not seem to have an understanding of EU law, tries to find ways that you are NOT qualified under EU law and generally want you off her case. She lacks communications skills, in a bad way. She is not interested, to say the least. I tell her one thing, and she gives me a completely different answer that is not helpful whatsoever. She took so long in dealing with this case (more then 2 months), that our time to travel to Paris had long gone by the time the french embassy had realized their mistake.

So, this year its back to the drawing board.

So, without much choice, I contacted Ms. Chris Korcz again for help, explaining that a third party agent is not allowing my husband to even lodge an application for a visa at the french embassy. Again she was unhelpful. She said that according to Article 8, I have to be residing in france for the directive to kick in. Her choice of words was interesting. Residing. I responded to her, asking for confirmation as to whether I need to be 'living' in France for the directive to kick in. She said that I need to show evidence that I plan to travel to France! As far as I know, as a British national I do not have any restrictions whatsoever in traveling to France, or in needing to provide evidence of my intention to travel to France. I am not about to go ahead and book travel plans for myself, when I dont know when my husband will get his visa!

I emailed the French embassy again, detailing the whole problem with their agent, explaining that they will not allow my husband to submit an application for a visa under this directive and I also attached the letter from a caseworker explaining everything, along with a demand for an appointment.

I got a response from them saying "Processing takes 2-3 weeks" - !!!!???? We do not even have an application lodged in order for it to be processed!!! The un-professionalism here is much to be desired!

So, in desperation, I emailed Chris Korcz explaining this to her. She says that there is no evidence that the french embassy has so far acted in contradiction to the directive and that once a decision on an application has been made by them, only then can she help me! My husband cannot lodge an application in the first place, there will be no decision outcome, because there is no application to decide on!!! She doesn't seem to understand this!!

So, I called your Europe advise and they just said to me that the french embassy can ask for whatever documents they want!! This is ridiculous!

If anyone can advise what I can do now, please help! I am at the end of my tether. I have called various lawyers and at least 2 of them didn't know what the directive 2004/38/EC is! One just told me that a Pakistani needs a visa to travel to france and wanted to charge me 30 Pounds for this advise!! Like I didn't know that!

Please help! Its getting ridiculous now

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

When you fill in the visa form, there should be "*" against those items not applicable to family members of EU nationals. It's pretty clear and you should try and insist that Gerry's take the application.

Or another tactic try another embassy and skip France?

[SRAQAI]

When you fill in the visa form, there should be "*" against those items not applicable to family members of EU nationals. It's pretty clear and you should try and insist that Gerry's take the application.

Or another tactic try another embassy and skip France?

Thanks for your response. My husband has travel to the Gerry's office 4 times and told them this four time. He even showed them something in Urdu, the Pakistani language and the letter from the legal caseworker, which details the directives. The only response he gets, is that "we have never seen this before and we have not been notified of this before, so we cannot take your application without complete documents". They won't even accept the application, without these particular documents and a visa fee. Im in the process of making a complaint to the EU Ombudsman about the EU Commission, because 'Your Europe' or 'Solvit', who fall under them have not been helpful at all. What representation do we have or help? Zilch. Its like our rights are on 'paper', but not in practice. Its crazy

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Theoretically, you should be able to make the application directly to the embassy.

Try this page for the names of officials.

http://www.ambafrance-pk.org/Consular-S ... mabad,1965

[SRAQAI]

Theoretically, you should be able to make the application directly to the embassy.

Try this page for the names of officials.

http://www.ambafrance-pk.org/Consular-S ... mabad,1965

Thanks for the link. I have emailed them and contacted them on numerous occasions. I get illiterate responses back from them, usually one liners that don't address the issue of my complaint. Thanks for the link though, as at least I know the names of these people I have just submitted an EU Ombudsman complaint about the UK Solvit. Let see what happens! I am not holding my breath, though.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

This might interest you.

http://www.ambafrance-pk.org/Procedure- ... y-for-visa

The holders of diplomatic or official passports, the spouses of the French or of the European Union’s nationals, the ancestors of the French nationals (only for Long Stay Visa), foreign children of the French nationals, visa applications for adoption, for scientists, for returning to France, for medical treatment, will not follow this procedure and should submit directly their visa applications at the Visa Section of the French Embassy in Islamabad without getting an appointment, from Monday to Thursday from 8h30 to 9h30 a.m. and on Friday from 9h00 to 11h00 a.m.

[SRAQAI]

Their website even states that spouses of EU Member States do not need an appointment and that they can just come to the embassy Monday to Thursday between 8:30am and 9:30am - lies. Security guard will not even let them near the gate, without evidence that an appointment has been set up. I cannot believe the corruption here.

[SRAQAI]

This might interest you.

http://www.ambafrance-pk.org/Procedure- ... y-for-visa

The holders of diplomatic or official passports, the spouses of the French or of the European Union’s nationals, the ancestors of the French nationals (only for Long Stay Visa), foreign children of the French nationals, visa applications for adoption, for scientists, for returning to France, for medical treatment, will not follow this procedure and should submit directly their visa applications at the Visa Section of the French Embassy in Islamabad without getting an appointment, from Monday to Thursday from 8h30 to 9h30 a.m. and on Friday from 9h00 to 11h00 a.m.

That's what I just was referring to when you posted this

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Their website even states that spouses of EU Member States do not need an appointment and that they can just come to the embassy Monday to Thursday between 8:30am and 9:30am - lies. Security guard will not even let them near the gate, without evidence that an appointment has been set up. I cannot believe the corruption here.

OK, in that case, it's back to the phone calls.

[SRAQAI]

Their website even states that spouses of EU Member States do not need an appointment and that they can just come to the embassy Monday to Thursday between 8:30am and 9:30am - lies. Security guard will not even let them near the gate, without evidence that an appointment has been set up. I cannot believe the corruption here.

OK, in that case, it's back to the phone calls.

Yes, I think Ill need to call the French embassy in Pakistan from here and give them a piece of my mind. I emailed them again earlier today, with a firm email along with a link to the directive, and I repeated what I was saying again and again, so that the reader who ever it may be can understand that we require an appointment for a visa application under this directive. I don't know who mans their emails, but their responses seems like someone with a literacy level of a five year old. One of them before simply said in all caps "CONTACT THE GERRY".

Ive just re-sent the same email I sent this afternoon, address to Mrs. Sylvie SEBBANE, see what happens

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Many of the embassy staff will actually be locals (no disrespect to the locals meant of course). What this means is that they might not be familiar with the regulations or even what the French embassy's website says.

Keep at them and don't give up!

[SRAQAI]

Many of the embassy staff will actually be locals (no disrespect to the locals meant of course). What this means is that they might not be familiar with the regulations or even what the French embassy's website says.

Keep at them and don't give up!

I think your right, this is the impression that I got, too. This is exactly what our problem is, because Gerry's are a local agent, with local people who are not trained in the EU regulations, and hence is stopping us from applying!

[sierra]

no one understans directive 2004/38/ec over here in pakistan like the people who works in gerrys fedex etc.
the embassy staff i had a good conversation with a lot of european embassies and ireland consulate in karachi no one understands whats the directives they will always tell you
submit all the requirements for the visit visa whatever required for any other pakistani.

[factone]

it will take long before these directives will be recognised in third world countries in asia and africa.
how good that will be that at least embassy staff know about these

[sierra]

i have a good news for you you can get direct appointment with the embassy if you ring them .
your husband needs to go for biometrics as well so get the appointment and submit application direct .
get the phone and do it now

[vinny]

Go to Embassy with printout from their web page.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Go to Embassy with printout from their web page

While I hope this works, the practical problem they appear to be facing is getting past the security team, who appear to just send the applicant packing.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

This is a very difficult problem, and somehow it is very hard to get help from the EC and Solvit.

I would suggest a multi pronged attack.

Often embassies and support organizations like GERRYs hire local staff to do a lot of the client facing work. They are very good at pushing back and giving a hard time to local applicants.

As a native English speaker, you have an advantage. Call yourself and try to burst through the defensive battlements of the person answering the phone.

Keep calling back, again and again. Expect to get NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. and finally at some point you will get YES.

Your goal has to be to get to the professional French embassy staff.

Another option is to get a visa from a more professional embassy. Maybe Germany? You can both reside there for a day or two and then move on to France.

[kyanfar]

This is a very difficult problem, and somehow it is very hard to get help from the EC and Solvit.

I would suggest a multi pronged attack.

Often embassies and support organizations like GERRYs hire local staff to do a lot of the client facing work. They are very good at pushing back and giving a hard time to local applicants.

As a native English speaker, you have an advantage. Call yourself and try to burst through the defensive battlements of the person answering the phone.

Keep calling back, again and again. Expect to get NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. and finally at some point you will get YES.

Your goal has to be to get to the professional French embassy staff.

Another option is to get a visa from a more professional embassy. Maybe Germany? You can both reside there for a day or two and then move on to France.

I had and still have the same same case with UK Solvit. Solvits are useless. There is no doubts. Based on my own experiences, I would like to recommend German, the Netherlands or even Spanish embassies to apply a visa for a family member of EU national. Especially Germany. German are very much efficient.

[kyanfar]

Their website even states that spouses of EU Member States do not need an appointment and that they can just come to the embassy Monday to Thursday between 8:30am and 9:30am - lies. Security guard will not even let them near the gate, without evidence that an appointment has been set up. I cannot believe the corruption here.

I found this in the German embassy in Islamabad:

"My spouse is a German national. We 're both residents in Pakistan and planning to spend our vacation in Germany. I learned from your list that I'm required to hold a visa to enter Germany. What do I have to submit ?

Just submit your application and the requirements listed for the type of visa you are applying for. If you attach an original or certified copy of your spouse's German passport and the original or certified copy of your marriage certificate you will get the visa free of charge and are exempt from the proof of health insurance and bank statement.

Please note, however, that your visa is only good for stays up to 90 days. If you want to live and work in Germany you need to apply for a residence permit."

I assume that this applies to all EU national and not just to German nationals.
http://www.pakistan.diplo.de/Vertretung ... Seite.html

Also If your husband applies in Islamabad then he can book an online appointment otherwise if he wants to apply in Karachi then the rule is comes first goes first.

[vinny]

Go to Embassy with printout from their web page

While I hope this works, the practical problem they appear to be facing is getting past the security team, who appear to just send the applicant packing.

Ask the security team to present the webpage to a French visa official. It's self explanatory that an appointment is not required.

[ALKB]

Go to Embassy with printout from their web page

While I hope this works, the practical problem they appear to be facing is getting past the security team, who appear to just send the applicant packing.

Ask the security team to present the webpage to a French visa official. It's self explanatory that an appointment is not required.

I think the OP is referring to the security personnel at the gates to the diplomatic enclave, not Embassy security.

When I wanted to go to the German Embassy, I didn´t need an appointment but I had to submit my name and German ID card number, names of other people in the car (driver, etc.), colour of the car, once even the license plate number - all that 48 hours in advance to making my way to the enclave. The security people at the gates to the enclave would then check our details against a list of arrivals of the day.

This was two years ago, so the procedure might have changed. It might sound simple and a thing of common sense but these people have uniforms and machine guns and are feeling important when they can send somebody back.

[sierra]

i i already spoke to french embassy islamabad after reading this thread and i was told that an appointment can be given to applicant over the phone for submitting the documents applicant can come by his/herself he she needs to come to embassy of france for biometrics as well .

so there is no need to go to fedex office when application can be submitted for eu family member direct this is official from embassy .

and about fedex they got visa application form with requirement
for every country and its different requirements for every country and caregory .

when someone is submitting visa application along with form they check the category and then requirements for instace
france if application is filled for visit visa they will check req for visit visa which is attached with visa form if something is missing like health insurance ticket itinery they will ask for that
under the directive eu family member cases are very rare from pakistan so they dont have enough knowledege for that
but as i said most embassies in pakistan deals these cases direct even embassy of france so no need to contact fedex .
its better to do it direct embassy of france

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I think the OP is referring to the security personnel at the gates to the diplomatic enclave, not Embassy security.

By analogy, just try and enter some airports without an e-ticket and passport...

If anyone's tried to do so and have gone through the hassle I completely understand.

[sierra]

hi SRAQAi whats the update did your husband managed to submit the application .