ILR - 14-years

[Oracle16]

Hi

I realise this topic has been discussed before, but I'd like to see if anyone can shed some light here in view of my circumstances

- Arrived in UK on student visa (undergrad) in 1992. Given one year visa at Heathrow

- Further annual renewals upto Sep 1995
[NOTE: New passport issued by the London High Commission (yes, I'm a Commonwealth citizen) in Feb 1995 to replace previous passport due to expire in May 1995]

- In-country (Croydon) one year visa renewed in Sep 1995

- Applied for renewal again in 1996; this was rejected and passport sent back in May 1997 asking me to leave country as soon as possible or face fine/prison/deportation

[Reason for refusal was that I had left the course I was on - this was true. However, it also stated that I had applied a couple of weeks after my visa had run out in Sep 96; I can't recall if I did apply late but I don't see why on earth I would have taken that risk!]

- Did not intend to remain this long, but excellent job offers (Management & IT consultancy) meant I took one after another and now my 14 years are complete and I've paid taxes in my name almost throughout. Annual earnings over last 3 - 4 years have been well into six-figures with all taxes paid.

- No family ties to UK even after all these years! Lots of close friends though.

- Reasonably well-off with own a flat in London and other assets (documented evidence available); however, have rented private accommodation throughout and still do.

- On electoral roll for at least 11 years of the 14 years and also have got Experian/Equifax records going back to 1998

- Excellent written references from senior executives of Fortune 100 firms whom I provided consultancy to.

So, some questions, if I may:

- I've filled in most bits of the SET(O) and it doesn't feel particularly onerous, but I'd like to tread with extreme care to make sure I don't jeopardise my position, especially having read the HO woes all too evident on these excellent forums

- OL7MAX - Did you successfully resolve your case? If so, do you mind sharing your thoughts/experience and also (privately?) sharing the name of your solicitors

- What are the realistic timescales for these kind of cases? Is there anything I can do to expedite timescales? Does an MP really have any power he can exercise in these matters and if so when should he be involved?

- I have a period - between Jul 97 - May 98, primarily - where I am somewhat thin on evidence in the form of paperwork - bank statememts, etc. I paid no taxes during that period and also was financially quite challenged then. Will this cause a (major) problem?

- Any suggestions on the best law firm who will actually take this case. I have no financial constraints to take into account

- Anything else that I ought to take into consideration?

Thank you in advance

Regards

O

[Biggie]

Oracle16,

I think you may find that refusal order you received in 1996 activated a deportation order against you, thus the clock stopped for you to claim ILR on the 14 year rule.

Biggie.

[Smit]

Have you thought about other options in addition to ILR under the 14 years rule? e.g. spouse visa/HSMP/business/investor etc.

The only drawback would be that these other options would involve you having to leave the UK and applying for entry clearance from your home country, which may not be a bad thing assuming that you haven't left UK soil in the last 14 years!

I will leave others to comment on your chances under the 14 years rule.

[Jeff Albright]

Oracle,

You need to obtain a copy of your file from IND in order to establish if any enforcement action had been initiated against you BEFORE you submit your SET(O). If you find copies of IS151A and IS151B on file you will have to hire a lawyer who will advise you accordingly.

Best wishes

Jeff

[Oracle16]

Hi Jeff, Smit,

Thank you for your replies

I will have the situation with the IS151A and IS151B checked.

If one or both have been issued, then I suppose the case becomes rather diffifcult to win - is that assessment correct? If so, is it best for me to mentally and otherwise prepare to leave the UK over the next few months?

If neither of these documents have been issued, then does that mean the case is more straightforward?

At this stage I have not really considered HSMP (perhaps I should) or business (once again maybe I should). I understand you need to be able to invest GBP 1m in the UK for the investor visa - I am some way away from having this kind of cash to invest here.

Incidentally, if this helps add any further information, the letter which refused me leave to remain (May 1997) is titled:

Immigration Act 1971
Refusal to grant leave to remain
Paragraph 62 with reference to 60 (ii) (iv) (v) and 57 (ii)(b), and (vi) of HC 395

Thanks

O

[OL7MAX]

Oracle16, without commenting on my own case I'll say that I do agree with Jeff in that you have to get a copy of your file. To me it seems crazy that the law requires the HO to "show their hand" but, heck, take advantage of it. Once you have the file you know exactly what they have on you. Even if you WERE served with IS151 they could have forgotten to put a note in your file about it so it may be on par with not actually receiving one.

Timescales: Expect a month or two for your file from SAB. Expect 6-12 months for application processing.

>> I have a period - between Jul 97 - May 98, primarily - where I am somewhat thin on evidence in the form of paperwork - bank statememts, etc. I paid no taxes during that period
I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you didn't leave the country. There are legitimate ways around filling SMALL gaps in time.

I've sent you a PM with some suggestions.

[Oracle16]

All - Thanks for your responses.

[OL7MAX thanks for you response and PM - I'm looking into it and will PM you]

I happened to speak to a law firm today (and I paid for the privilege!) and they clearly tell me that the letter I have that was issued in May 1997 is not an issue as such and also, after discussing my situation, they tell me I pretty much qualify within the 14-year rules.

However, there is a catch, and a BIG one, according to them, which you guys have previously touched upon. That is:

- If the HO had issued either a deportation or removal notice after the May 1997 refusal, then my clock would have indeed stopped and I wouldn't stand much of chance.

Because I moved out of that address in Sep 1997 and didn't contact the HO, they would have had no way of issuing the doc to me, but if it has been issued it will be on the file.

And anyway, those days they used to apparently serve deportations orders at their whim, irrespective of whether they ascertained if the individual was still in the country or not and that a deportation order is supposed to be a lot worse than a removal order (which are apparently issued these days) because with the latter you can choose to walk up to the airport and leave whereas with the former you would have your passport stamped and couldn't return for at least 3 years.

So the decision I have currently to make is either (1) or (2) below:

1) Apply for both SAB and SET(0) at the same time. If Subject Access reveals a deportation or removal then my chances of SET(0) success are apparently slim to nil. If Subject Access reveals no such document(s) were issued, then chances of success are very high

2) Apply for SAB, wait to see what's on file and then decide whether to apply for SET(0) or not

I personally think that even if SAB is negative, i.e. I have a deportation or removal order issued all those years ago, what is the harm in applying for SET(0)? Worst case is that they will refuse it and march me to the airport?

I mean, what exactly are the pros of waiting to see what SAB says?

If SAB reveals a dep/removal order, I've been told that extenuating circumstances are far and few between even if it goes to immigration tribunal and a judge has to rule i.e. I would have to leave then! Does anyone know how accurate this statement is?

Thanks

O

[Janit]

Do you mind sharing thedetails of the law firm? Getting reliable advice, paid for, seems like stabbing the yellow pages with a pin, hoping one is lucky. Thanks.

[OL7MAX]

I mean, what exactly are the pros of waiting to see what SAB says?

You don't know what edge the SAB file will give you till you have it in your hand (and have it analysed by a good lawyer). In a game of chess you may know what your next two moves are going to be but what purpose is served by disclosing them to your opponent?

Janit, my first ever post was about just that

[Oracle16]

This issue is really all-consuming from a mental perspective. I was actually happier in the long run-up to the 14 years because I at least got on with (from year 10 onwards) building up and running my business and not worrying about what the hell is going to happen!

So, anyway, here is what I hope to do:

- Wait for the write-up from the law firm (I expect that early next week) which sets out all the case details and options for next steps

- Going by the sentiment here and thinking more about it, I probably should get my SAB file first and proceed depending on it's content.

This basically means I need to wait till after Christmas before I can apply for SET(O).

- Does anyone have advice/thoughts on what exactly will be the position if there is a Dep order? Because the law firm was clear that I wouldn't stand much chance of success with SET(O) in those circumstances.

- I spoke to a Barrister (a QC dealing with Immigration amongst other things) off the record at a social event and was given the normal "you must go through a solicitor.." routine at first. But I also gleaned that there may be a glimmer of hope if you are able to illustrate how you have contributed to British society, etc - does this really carry any weight? IF so, is it quantifiable?

Now, I ought to do the very British thing and head for the bar/pub (':)')
Smile


Thanks

O

[Jeff Albright]

- Does anyone have advice/thoughts on what exactly will be the position if there is a Dep order? Because the law firm was clear that I wouldn't stand much chance of success with SET(O) in those circumstances.

There is always a chance that you may succeed in getting your deportation/removal decision set aside by a court. You need to hire an experienced lawyer after you have sifted your file for Removal/Deportation papers. There is one case in the Tribunal this year when after long residence, a Judge cancelled deportation order and granted ILR to an Ukrainian girl even though she has been in breach of immigration rules throughout her immigration history here. If the Home Office has not acted on your case, it is a very good sign for you. If they have issued you with the removal directions but could not find you, it is worse. But still your circumstances could have changed over the years and this may be the case when the deportation would no longer be appropriate in your case. Your business and contribution to this country is another very favourable aspect of your case. If you have formed a family and private life here, your removal may not be appropriate either. It all depends on your particular circumstances. You will need to see your file first. SAB are quite good in keeping to their obligations to provide you with a copy of your file within 1 month.

...may be a glimmer of hope if you are able to illustrate how you have contributed to British society, etc - does this really carry any weight? IF so, is it quantifiable?

You cannot appeal any decision solely on this factor, but it will come handly as a secondary one. Your appeal will either be based on Human Rights Grounds or Asylum or Immigration Rules, which may apply in your case (14 years residence). Other factors, including inaction of your case, delays, administrative blunders, your contribution to the society will also be brought at the same time and will be considered together with your main claim under European Convention of Human Rights/published Immigration Rules or Asylum grounds.

[Janit]

Could Oracle16 please post with his responses if he has been onto the Home Office with his matter. I am in a similiar situation and am desperate to know what the mood is like in Croydon on these long residence matters.

[Rawling]

Is anybody know what documents and how many different document will be required to apply for 14 years rule. What happened if few months are missing here and there.

OL7MAX you opinion will be very much appreciated as it seems you know this subject very well.

Thank you