EEA4 Application. Please help.

david12 · Post by **david12** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:41 pm

Hi All, I have been reading the comments and experiences from different people regarding EEA4 route. I was wondering if you could give me some advice for my EEA4 application. In September 2008 I married , my wife is a nation of Austria . We both applied for eea1 & eea2 and got RC in december 2009. As far we understand , we can apply for EEA4 & EEA3 in October 2013. Everything is fine apart from exercising treaty rights as we are very confused about that & my wife had bad luck regarding jobs. My wife first arrived in UK in July'2008. Her activity since then as below:

July 2008 - March 2009 : part-time work ( No NI contribution)
April 2009 - March 2010 : Maternity allowance
April 2010 - December 2010 : part-time work ( No NI contribution)

In December 2010 she has left her job as it was very difficult to work while she has to look after our child who was only one and half years old then.
Since then She is a full time mom & also looking for suitable job. Regularly actively applying for jobs by sending cv's or in the company's website( which we have proof) , but only she got registered with JobCentre plus in May 2011. Since then she regularly attend job centre and also seeking jobs via internet .

I am working full time since 2008 and I have no gap at all in my employment.

My question are follows:

Does my wife qualify for EEA3 ?

If she does not qualify then is there any chance for me to qualify for EEA4? ( as I was working all the time and my wife has access to my salary all the time, we don't have CSI , but we do have EHIC issued in UK)

If they refused my EEA4 and also if I do not win in appeal , can I re-apply for EEA2 ( if my wife will have a job on the time of apply)?

Is there any chance that they will remove me from UK while my wife & my child both are EU nations & they both live here?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I will really appreciate your suggestions and advice.

Please reply as soon as possible.

Many thanks.

David

Post by **Obie** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:13 pm

David, as you correctly pointed out, you will not qualify for PR until Next OCtober.

I don't think anyone will remove you or your wife, but it is arguable that your wife is not exercising treaty rights at present, as the family don't have a comprehensive sickness insurance.

I will advice you to try and obtain that now, and hopefully make an application for Residence Card when your current Residence Card Expires.

You wife ceased exercising treaty right when she went on the maternity allowance. She ceased from being a worker then. She was not on maternity leave.

In those circumstances, it is difficult to see how she can qualify for EEA 3. If she is unable to qualify for EEA 3, then you cannot qualify for EEA 4.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:05 pm

I would agree with what Obie has written. PR is secondary, it will come in time.

Ensure that your wife complies with the terms of the directive and your right to be in the UK with her is secure. In your case, she would be self-sufficient, but as you know, will need CSI (a UK EHIC is not of use to her).

david12 · Post by **david12** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:10 am

Thanks Obie & EUsmileWEallsmile for your very quick response. This CSI seems to be very confusing, I have searched in internet, but I could not find this kind of insurance policy. Does it mean accident & sickness insurance? Do we all (me, my wife, my daughter) should have CSI?If my wife will go for any National Vocational Qualification course then will it count as exercising treaty rights and we also needs CSI?
Another thing, if someone is working part-time with no NI contribution, does he/she exercising treaty rights according to EU directive?

I know I am asking too many questions, but your advice will give me clear idea & reduce my stress.

Many thanks.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:51 pm

david12 wrote:Thanks Obie & EUsmileWEallsmile for your very quick response. This CSI seems to be very confusing, I have searched in internet, but I could not find this kind of insurance policy. Does it mean accident & sickness insurance? Do we all (me, my wife, my daughter) should have CSI?If my wife will go for any National Vocational Qualification course then will it count as exercising treaty rights and we also needs CSI?
Another thing, if someone is working part-time with no NI contribution, does he/she exercising treaty rights according to EU directive?

I know I am asking too many questions, but your advice will give me clear idea & reduce my stress.

Many thanks.

CSI is comprehensive sickness insurance and is rather ill defined (Some one who has it please correct me).

Part-time working may be sufficient for a person to be considered to be a worker - depends on what they are doing. The test is that the work need to be "genuine and effective" - this is not fully defined.

david12 · Post by **david12** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:50 pm

Thanks again EUsmileWEallsmile . I understand that CSI is Comprehensive Sickness Insurance, but the problem is when I search in the net I cannot find the exact type of insurance. May be I dont understand what does comprehensive sickness insurance mean. All I can find accident, sickness & unemployment insurance etc. Is there anyone who has took this insurance can tell me from where they bought and what is the name of this insurance policy?

Many thanks.

david12 · Post by **david12** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:28 pm

Hi Obie & EUsmileWEallsmile, I was wondering if you could please clarify one thing. As my wife(EU nation) is not presently exercising treaty rights & as she did not exercise treaty rights continuously , but if she can start a job in future(let say in 3/4 months time), will I be eligible to re-apply for EEA2 when my present 5 years residence card expires ( presently I have EEA2 residence card valid for 5 years which will expire December'2014?

Many thanks.

Please advice me ASAP , I am really in stressful situation.

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:32 pm

RC can be applied for anytime you wish regardless of the validity of your current one (if you have one). What the HO is doing is confirming the EEA national is exercising treaty rights around the time of the application and that you are a family member. nothing else. If you wish you can apply for a new RC straight after you receive one.

david12 · Post by **david12** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:41 pm

Thank you Jambo, really appreciate your quick response.

Post by **Obie** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:56 pm

Try and get comprehensive sickness insurance, and you will be fine. There will be no need for you to do anything till 2014. After 2014, you can then apply for a further Residence Card, and apply for PR in 2017

david12 · Post by **david12** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:43 pm

Thanks Obie, really appreciate your kindly advice in this critical situation. Can you please confirm me one thing, if my wife will start now a study (part-time study) in Uni or if she will start a national vocational course, then will she be qualified as a person who is exercising treaty rights and still do we have to have the CSI? My wife is now planning to go for study as she is looking for job for a long time and has not got yet anything. She became very upset. Any advice on that will be highly appreciate.

Thanks.

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:22 pm

CSI is also required for students (although just the EEA national not the whole family as in the case of self-sufficient).

david12 · Post by **david12** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:59 pm

Hi Jumbo, as you mentioned, so if my wife (EU nation) become student, then only she needs to have CSI, not me? Have I understood correctly? And what about my daughter ( EU nation, 3 years old)?

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:19 pm

david12 wrote:Hi Jumbo, as you mentioned, so if my wife (EU nation) become student, then only she needs to have CSI, not me? Have I understood correctly? And what about my daughter ( EU nation, 3 years old)?

For students, just the student needs CSI. No one else.

erin85 · Post by **erin85** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:00 pm

you wife was still excerising her treaty rights while on maternity allowance, any one on maternity allowance or maternity leave is still classed as a worker, if u wife is still actively looking for work and you can prove that they she is a job seeker that is still excerising your treaty right.

Post by **Obie** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:33 pm

erin85 wrote:you wife was still excerising her treaty rights while on maternity allowance, any one on maternity allowance or maternity leave is still classed as a worker, if u wife is still actively looking for work and you can prove that they she is a job seeker that is still excerising your treaty right.

That is not correct. Yes i accept that maternity allowance is not considered as recourse to public fund and it is assessed based on your earning, but there is nothing h
that states that someone on maternity allowance is a worker.

To be a worker the person will need to have an existing contract with the employer and should have an intention of returning or return at the end of the maternity period for those time to be counted.

david12 · Post by **david12** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:04 pm

Thank you guys, I am really puzzled & very frustrated, as my wife. She is very actively looking for jobs for over a year. She regularly attends job centre and also she applies for job by herself at least 50/60 jobs a week. But no luck yet. Don't know what will be in future.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:17 pm

Now, remember that your status in the UK depends on your wife's. She needs to be a worker, student, self-sufficient person.

PR is nice to have, but being allowed to live and work here, frankly is more important.

If you haven't done so, it would be a good idea to familarise yourself with directive 2004/38/EC and the conditions set out therein.

(If your wife is actively seeking work, she may be considered to be a job-seeker - see article 14.)

david12 · Post by **david12** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Thanks EUsmileWEallsmile, my wife is very actively looking for job, but i am just afraid that it has been over a year she is looking for a job, so she has a big gap & not sure if HO will consider this gap as normal. But I will definitely introduce myself with the directive you mentioned. Thank you.

Post by **Obie** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:50 pm

Please not that an EEA national will only be considered as a jobseeker in the UK after 6 months period, if after that period of jobseeking, she is able to continue showing she is actively seeking work and has a realistic prospect of securing one. Therefore simply claiming jobseeking status is not indefinite provision.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:16 pm

Obie wrote:Please not that an EEA national will only be considered as a jobseeker in the UK after 6 months period, if after that period of jobseeking, she is able to continue showing she is actively seeking work and has a realistic prospect of securing one. Therefore simply claiming jobseeking status is not indefinite provision.

Thanks for clarifying that, Obie.

erin85 · Post by **erin85** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:29 pm

obie, ca u clarify this for me.... if someone was working part time and did not earn enough for normal maternity leave and had to take the maternity allowance, went on materity leave for 9 months and then returned to work, u saying in them 9 months there not classed as a worker???

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EEA4 Application. Please help.

EEA4 Application. Please help.