EEA Family Permit refused - because I work in Gibraltar?

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:37 pm

Hi,

I have been reading these forums for a while. I am a British national resident in Spain. My wife is South African also resident in Spain in possession of an Spanish issued residence card that states at the back "Family member of Union National" and then my details.

As we all know, EU law states that she should be able to enter the UK with me as long as she is present with me. But as theyre a bunch of muppets, (to put it politely) we have had to go to the lengths of applying for an EEA Family Permit in order for us to visit England to see family for Christmas.

After a 3 month wait, and a 7 hour drive to Madrid, overnight hotel stay and then submitting everything, and a long drive back. They had the audacity to REFUSE the clearance.

Why?

Basically Regulation 9. As a family member of a British national who has been / was previously working or self employed in another Member State. However in view of your failure to provide documentary evidence that the British citizen is/was working or self employed in another Mmeber state prior to returning to coming to the United Kingdom, I am not satisfied that the regulations apply in this case.

This is despite the fact that as part of the application we submitted:

Last 3 months worth of pay slips from my employer.
My work contract
A letter from my employer on company letter head stating that I work a full time permanent position since 2008 and confirming my salary and their contact details.

HOW THE HELL CAN THEY REFUSE IT?

Either UK Visas have lost the papers and not sent them through to UKBA, OR is there a problem with the fact that I work in Gibraltar? I did check this and the UK do refer to Gibraltar as another EU Member state.
And if it is because of Gibraltar why does it not say that? And sorry but isnt the above enough evidence to prove that I am working?

So they point me to appeals at justtive.gov.uk and talk about paying fees. Do we have to pay fees to appeal against an EEA Family Permit decision? I am happy to send an appeal and get work to give me another letter and another copy of my contract to attach. How long does it take? time is running out, its almost november and we're due to fly on December 21st.

My blood is boiling. My grandfather is 92, he wants to meet his new granddaughter for the first time. We have a big family Christmas planned, and its all going to be ruined because of these f**k tards.. I am sick of their facelessness. I cant phone them and ask, its all procedures. I cant reapply for another EU Family permit in time now.

Post by **Lucapooka** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:59 pm

onlineamiga wrote:HOW THE HELL CAN THEY REFUSE IT?

You can't use Singh having worked in Gib. Gibraltar is not a another or separate EEA state but a territory for which the UK is responsible for the purpose of single market directives. You did not work in Spain (you were self-sufficient based on your income garnered in Gib), so can't use Singh on that basis either. Surely your partner can easily apply for a UK visit visa?

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Are you sure?

According to:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

It says:

For immigration purposes Gibraltar is part of the EU. Gibraltarians should be admitted as EU
nationals. Please also refer to IDIs Chapter 37 Section 2.

Post by **Lucapooka** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:17 pm

Yes, Gib is part of the EU but not in the sense that it is another member state. So, for immigration purposes, people from Gib (who are clearly not British) are not limited to six months visit under UK immigration rules and can remain as EU nationals. However, because it is not a separate EEA territory, it can't help you with your Singh application as that would require you to have been working in a different EEA state.

The ECO in Madrid has correctly refused your application on the principles I have just outlined.

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:10 pm

THEN WHY DON'T THEY SAY THAT!!???

Why give me standard bullshit responses? its bad enough i have to go through all this crap in the first place. Why not just say "we dont regard gibraltar as bla bla crap bollocks" instead of giving nonsense robotic responses that simply say they dont have proof that I'm working.

And sorry but NEVER use the word "correctly" when it comes to this situation. I am a British Citizen and I simply want to go back to the UK with my wife for a Christmas to see family. It shouldnt be this difficult. There is nothing Correct about this at all!

Post by **Lucapooka** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:20 pm

I hope you did not go to Spain and work in Gib for three months expressly for the purpose of Singh. That would indeed be a tragedy. Is there a reason your wife can't visit the UK under national rules; does she have a negative immigration history? Are you able to find work in Spain and make another application under Singh?

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:35 pm

No not at all. I've been living in Spain and working in Gibraltar for 5 years.
I took the Singh route because I want to express my rights as an EU Citizen to free movement, and plus the fact there is no charge for an EEA Application.
It aint cheap doing a 1200km round trip to Madrid just to hand some papers in you know. Especially when you shouldnt have to.

The national route would be fine, and had I known the singh route would not work I'd have done this in the first place. I read that UK determine Gibraltar as another EU member state. So I didnt think it would be a problem. It has its own tax, its self governing, its just ouside of EU and the ECC for customs.. that's it.

Now its probably too late, it already took 3 months to get an appointment at the British consulate in madrid for the EEA. I dont think we'll get a visa before xmas now

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:04 am

If I was spanish, or french etc would they have accepted the eea permit?

tanabrennan · Post by **tanabrennan** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:29 am

I do not know how long you still intend to stay in Spain, even if you apply under UK route, they will not grant the visa within a month. why don’t you get a job in Spain, even if it is only three months, any job will do and t=you can use the SS rule which is cheaper and straight forward, or after working for 3months or so, you can take your rout to the border without applying for eea permit and you will be giving visa at the point, and with your three months work in Spain your partner can use the eea route which is straight forward.
why I gave this advice is because there is no way you might get a visa within the next 1 month, they can come back again and refuse you on UK rule, all they do is try to delay and frustrate you, but if you work in Spain for just only 3months, they don’t have chance in hell to refuse you and if they do, get your bag, and head to the UK border in France and get your partner passport stamp, they can refuse you entry.

Post by **Greenie** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:57 am

They are likely to process a visit visa application quicker than a family permit so i would suggest it is worthwhile applying. 21 Dec is still 8 weeks away. According to their service standards they aim to process 90% of non settlement applications within 3 weeks and 98% within 6 weeks so you have a good chance of getting the visa in time.

Post by **Jambo** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:55 am

I would also explain in a cover letter why she has applied before for a EEA Family Permit and that the intention was to visit. Just to avoid a refusal based on the ECO suspecting her intentions for applying for a visit visa after a refused visa that can be used for settlement (although less likely to happen when married to a British citizen but better to be on the safe side).

Post by **Lucapooka** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:29 am

Why not tray to apply in Gibraltar; it's perhaps closer if you work there and has a much faster turnaround than Madrid?

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:03 am

First there is no British Embassy in Gibraltar for visas. So you cannot apply from Gibraltar, you have to apply from Madrid, Especially considering she is resident in Spain.

Secondly there is no work in Spain, so just obtaining a job here for 3 months so that I can enjoy Christmas dinner with my family and my wife in the UK is just ridiculous.

I've tried the visa route, the earliest appointment we can get is December 10th at the British Embassy in Madrid to do the biometrics.

I hope that ECO enjoys his Christmas this year with his family, because he's just ruined ours.

Post by **Lucapooka** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:12 am

onlineamiga wrote:First there is no British Embassy in Gibraltar for visas.

Apart from this one!

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/count ... %20English

UK visit visas can be obtained at any UK mission irrespective of residence status in that location.

a.s.b.o · Post by **a.s.b.o** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:42 am

onlineamiga wrote:THEN WHY DON'T THEY SAY THAT!!???

Why give me standard bullshit responses? its bad enough i have to go through all this crap in the first place. Why not just say "we dont regard gibraltar as bla bla crap bollocks" instead of giving nonsense robotic responses that simply say they dont have proof that I'm working.

And sorry but NEVER use the word "correctly" when it comes to this situation. I am a British Citizen and I simply want to go back to the UK with my wife for a Christmas to see family. It shouldnt be this difficult. There is nothing Correct about this at all!

Broadly, this is largely due to the profile differences- if i were to run eea fp applicant / ukba officer educational level regression we would start worrying even more who handles borders of this country

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:54 pm

Have you never worked in Spain at all? Never?

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:27 pm

Lucapooka OMG! This could be the solution if they will accept an application in Gibraltar. But we are not resident in Gibraltar. She can only enter Gibraltar as long as I am present with her. She has no residence permit for Gibraltar, and can only go in there as a tourist. Do you think they would still accept an application? I'm going to go and ask tomorrow though

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:29 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Have you never worked in Spain at all? Never?

I did 4 years ago, but the company has since dissolved. Would this still be considered?

Post by **Lucapooka** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:07 pm

Lucapooka wrote: UK visit visas can be obtained at any UK mission irrespective of residence status in that location.

Visitors are eligible to apply for UK visit visas from anywhere in the world (EEA family permits too, but that is all water under the bridge). Obviously her passport will be retained during the application, so she would have to consider that. Does she anywhere to stay?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:19 am

onlineamiga wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Have you never worked in Spain at all? Never?
I did 4 years ago, but the company has since dissolved. Would this still be considered?

If you have worked in Spain, I would again apply for the EEA FP on the basis of Surinder Singh

smalldog · Post by **smalldog** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:26 am

Given the timeframe and the fact you only want to visit the UK for Christmas, I would suggest applying for a visitor visa in Gibraltar because reapplying for an EEA family permit will likely take longer and still isn't guaranteed. I don't think the refusal of the EEA family permit will impact the application for a visitor visa so long as when you applied for the EEA family permit it was clear that it was just for a short visit. My wife was recently refused an EEA family permit -- also for a Christmas visit, but different reasons for refusal. She reapplied for a visitors visa and it was issued within two weeks.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:23 am

Whatever happens, please let us know!

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:38 am

Went to Gibraltar office to apply for a visa and they said we couldn't because we are not resident in Gibraltar. Also it takes 8 weeks as they send it all to the UK.

Another brick wall.

Anyone got any advice for the best types of trucks to bundle her into the back of, in Calais.. I'm starting to think that this is probably an easier solution.

If i lodge an appeal would and submit copies of some payslips and contract from when i worked in Spain in 2008, would that be done in time for xmas? Or are we royally screwed?

Post by **Lucapooka** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:52 am

They are misinformed and have thus misdirected you. Refer them to the ECGs and para 28 of the immigration rules.

Applications for visit visas and EEA Family Permits can be made at any post designated by the Secretary of State to accept applications for entry clearance. The applicant will need to be in the third country or territory in accordance with that country or territory's immigration laws.

Also, here is their own guidance lifted from their own UK in Gib site (that I previously linked):

If you have temporary permission to stay (for example, as a visitor) in the country where you are currently living, you cannot apply for most types of UK visa in that country. You can only apply for:
a visitor visa
a Tier 5 (Temporary worker - creative and sporting) visa
an EEA family permit

However, the 8 weeks may not something that can be overcome even though the published waiting time stats show that the average is 10 days or less.
Can she fly to her home country and apply from there.

onlineamiga · Post by **onlineamiga** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:18 pm

Thanks Lucapooka for your help.
Her home country is South Africa.. bit of a long way round, and would probably have the same issue of lengthy waiting times.

I will raise a grievance with the Gibraltar office and see if we can sort that out. But the 8 weeks is too long.

I don't think she's going to be going to the UK for Christmas

Everything just takes too long and the system is full of imbeciles, and I have yet to speak to anyone who actually genuinely wants to help.

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EEA Family Permit refused - because I work in Gibraltar?

EEA Family Permit refused - because I work in Gibraltar?