APPEAL OR REAPPLY SETTLEMENT VISA

SHAF · Post by **SHAF** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:49 pm

Hi I am in desperate need of some help.

My wifes visa was refused at Islamabad and I've been given 28 days to appeal. There were 2 main reasons given for the refusal by the ECO:

1. Intention to live together. My wife is 18 and I am 30. I was previously married with 3 children from the first marriage. RED SIGNALS ALREADY!!!

They did not believe our marriage is a genuine one and that she married me just to come to the UK. They say marrying a divorcee is something that is not part of the culture of Pakistan in the refusal letter, further stating pakistanis will normally marry their relatives due to land inheritence - my wife and I are not related outside of marriage.

We provided wedding photos, greeting cards, itemised phone bills showing me calling her for hours and hours upon end. We were in constant contact for a whole year before the marriage. I had my pay slips, building society statements, divorce certificate, mortgage statement, house survey report, gas elec bills etc etc etc.

2. Financial support. When asked how much maintenance I pay my ex-wife and children, my wife answered 'i know he pays child maintenance but i dont know how much'. The fact of the matter is to this day we have never discussed finiancial matters of this detail, and this sort of evidence was not attached to the original application. My application was put together by myself and an immigration solicitor and not once did he advise me of this vital evidence. The ECO doesnt beleive I can support my 3 children and my wife if she came to the UK.

These are the grounds of refusal. My wife broke down in tears in front of the ECOs as it was her honour in question as to why she married me. They kept repeating the same questions over and over again and made the remark 'how could you marry such a guy'.

The good news is my wife is expecting our child so that should disprove their first ground of refusal. My wife never disclosed this information to them at the time of the interview as they just beat her to the ground in the 1 hour and 40 minute interview - she was 3 months pregnant.

I am concerned my unborn child will be born in pakistan which may cause further immigration problems.

Also the child maintenance i pay to my ex wife is paid as cash each month. How do I prove this to the ECO? also I was wondoring do I appeal or re-apply?

Sorry for the long explanation. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!!!!

Brit Chick · Post by **Brit Chick** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:51 pm

Well if you do reapply, what will be different about the fresh application to ensure the grounds for refusal in the first application are evidenced sufficiently?

Why not file the appeal for now, and see if they overturn the decision but also start making preparations for the fresh application 'just in case' so you don't waste any time.

rainbow24 · Post by **rainbow24** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:01 pm

I am so sorry to hear that your wife did not get her visa. My heart goes out to you both.

I can't offer you much advice here, but I think it's terrible how the BHC can get away with comments such as 'It is not in their culture for Pakistani people to marry divorcees' and 'Pakistani people normally marry their realitives due to land inheritance'. Oh so every Pakistani person is the same??? I think not.

First and foremost Pakistani people are Muslims, and Muslims are allowed to marry Divorcees. I know quite a few Pakistani women who have married Pakistani men who have been married before. And I also know Pakistani women who are married to men and they are not in any way related to them. I think the above comments are terrible, and I really hope you battle on with your case and win the appeal!

One thing I would just like to say - You should have told the BHC that she is pregnant!!! This could have made a big difference to your case as this would have shown that your marriage is genuine. Now I'm not saying that she would definately have gotton her visa, but it certainly shows that the marriage is serious when there is a child involved. You will also have the chance to appeal against the decision on human rights grounds since you have a baby together. As your solicitor for advice about this.

I am pregnant and my hubby is waiting for a decision regarding his visa. I was told by an immigration lawyer that we can appeal on human rights grounds if they reject his visa because of the baby. Separating a 'family' is taken very seriously in the UK, so do ask a solicitor about this.

Good luck

rainbow24 · Post by **rainbow24** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:02 pm

I am so sorry to hear that your wife did not get her visa. My heart goes out to you both.

I can't offer you much advice here, but I think it's terrible how the BHC can get away with comments such as 'It is not in their culture for Pakistani people to marry divorcees' and 'Pakistani people normally marry their realitives due to land inheritance'. Oh so every Pakistani person is the same??? I think not.

First and foremost Pakistani people are Muslims, and Muslims are allowed to marry Divorcees. I know quite a few Pakistani women who have married Pakistani men who have been married before. And I also know Pakistani women who are married to men and they are not in any way related to them. I think the above comments are terrible, and I really hope you battle on with your case and win the appeal!

One thing I would just like to say - You should have told the BHC that she is pregnant!!! This could have made a big difference to your case as this would have shown that your marriage is genuine. Now I'm not saying that she would definately have gotton her visa, but it certainly shows that the marriage is serious when there is a child involved. You will also have the chance to appeal against the decision on human rights grounds since you have a baby together. As your solicitor for advice about this.

I am pregnant and my hubby is waiting for a decision regarding his visa. I was told by an immigration lawyer that we can appeal on human rights grounds if they reject his visa because of the baby. Separating a 'family' is taken very seriously in the UK, so do ask a solicitor about this.

Good luck

SHAF · Post by **SHAF** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:31 pm

Hi guys,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

You know what the worst thing is, this is th first time in my life i feel life is worth living for. Its all down to my wife.

I had a terrible marriage to my ex. It took me years to pluck up the courage and divorce her. Although he have 3 beautiful children things just fell apart over the years and it took me time to get over the whole situation. I love my children and would do anything for them, however I need to live the rest of my life and getting remarried was the option i went for.

Since I re-married I bought a house, spent every spare moment of my time doing DIY. I changed every single thing in he house, brand new Spam, new bathroom, every single thing is new. I work in I.T. as a software developer which means orking long hours. What ever time i had free I devoted to the house. I did all this for my wife. I wanted a new start in life and made sure when she came over everything was ready for us to enjoy our life together. It breaks my heart now when I'm alone in the house - no one to share it with.

My wife is so upset and the stress is making her more ill on top of the fact she is pregnant. I'm planning to return and be with her once the appeal has been lodged.

I hope the ECO will overturn his decision, which some tell me will be a miracle. However I will fight it to the end for us to be together.

antontony · Post by **antontony** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:14 am

Hello,

From the states grounds of refusal you must lodge an appeal with the AIT as otherwise there will be no changes in your fresh application, thatis why it is likely to be refused.

Regards,

Anton

evo781 · Post by **evo781** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:56 pm

i am also in a simialr situation
my wife is from the ukraine. we got married and we were refused on very similar grounds to yourself. ie, intention to live together and finances.

we lodged our appeal straight away and also have leagl representation. it is gonna cost me around 1500 pound but is less than the 8000 i was expecting.
our lawyer has looked at our case and already told us that all the documents we provided to the embassy in ukraine were enough and that they should not have refused on those grounds.

at the moment we are looking at a hearing inmay sometime. it still 5 months but its better tahen the 12 we were originally looking at.

if you aRE going down the route of the appeal i would advise you to get legal representation. from what i have heard from other people, without that then the appeal ismuch more of a one - way conversation, and the tribunal will just chew you to pieces. at least a lawyer can argue your case. its a lot of money but for me it is worth every penny so that me and my wife can be together again. xmas is lonely at the moment.

if you chose that route there is a number you can phone, im sorry i cant find it at the moment but they will give you contact details of immigration lawyers in your area.

hope that this is some help to you and i hope things work out. maybe next christmas will be a happier one for us both.

Post by **John** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:56 pm

Shah, I don't recollect seeing your post when you opened this topic, so apologies for this late comment.

Given that you had professional help in making the application the thing that surprises me is that there was nothing in your "evidence folder" about how much maintenance is paid to your ex-wife and/or children. I make that comment because it is very clear that you need to prove that you can financially support your wife, without her needing to claim certain Public Funds, and without knowing that important detail, which can cost people a lot of their income, how was the ECO dealing with your wife's spouse visa application meant to mark the financial test as passed?

In seems to me that such information is an important facet of your financial affairs.

Why don't you consider making a fresh application rather than pursuing the appeal, and no doubt ensuring that the missing evidence is submitted this time, and including a lot of detail about the conclusions reached by the ECO last time. And information about the pregnancy can only help!

loozit · Post by **loozit** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:38 pm

I would just like to being pregnant doesnt always make a difference. I am 4 1/2 months pregnant and my husband is in india. The eco who did the application refused to look at any evidence of the relationship and was rude and shouting the whole way through the interview.
I have spoke to solicitors who say whilst being pregnant should be proof of relationship, its not.
The refusal my husband was given was absolute nonsense. We were married in a church with around 70 people attaending including my mother and husbands family and friends. We had photo album/video letters written by me and others to substaniate that we had a "real relationship"
The truth is alot of these ecos believe they are queen or king of their own country and have somewhat of a god complex.
Around 53% of appeals were allowed in this country, this is because the system is terrible in certain countries.
I wish you all the luck in the world, i really do.
I have lodged an appeal and also preparing a new application with my immigration solicitor. It is going to cost me a fortune and the stress i am under as well as being pregnant is awful. My husband feels useless and powerless as he cannot be with me.
There is a real possibility of husband missing the birth of our first child.
I think a system that is so desperately flawed should be urgently addressed. In the meantime its the innocents that suffer as the people who are marrying purely for entry to the UK are much smarter to the system and so avoid all the pitfalls, unlike us.
I'm sorry to rant.

SHAF · Post by **SHAF** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:15 pm

Hi guys

Thanks for all you good words and support.

After finding a top immigration lawyer in Birmingham who has collated over 200 pages on the grounds of appeal, I am just playing the waiting game now. Its been 5 weeks since the appeal was lodged, and each day is so depressing.

My wife is expecting our child in April, and theres a very good chance I may miss the birth, as I dont have any annual leave left from work.

I dont know if i told you this before, but when I got married last May, i took 4 weeks off work. When i got back to the UK, my wife was missing me so much she would cry on the phone i ask me to come back to her. So I went back to Pakistan only after 6 weeks!! I took unpaid leave from work to be with my wife for a further 4 weeks. This was all agreed with my very unstanding employer. This was even brought up at my wifes interview. They said to her how come I had all that time off work in 1 year. How was it possible, as this doesnt happen in the UK, and they pointed out to her the fact of how much annual leave one gets in the UK.
She explained to them about unpaid leave, but they just didnt want to know.

On one hand they dont beleive our marriage is genuine, on the other hand I go to Pakistan twice in the space of a couple of months to be with my wife and they question this too. I dont understand the logic!!!

So i dont know what I should do. Should I go again?

Also I still want to ask, while the appeal is going ahead, can I submit a new application?? Please someone advise. I dont care how much it costs, I just ant my wife to be by my side.

loozit · Post by **loozit** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:06 pm

Yes you can lodge an appeal and new application along side one another as i am doing that at the moment.
Best of luck
Lorraine

Brit Chick · Post by **Brit Chick** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:04 am

Just to confirm that yes, it is possible to submit a fresh application while an appeal is still pending as I did recently in Islamabad. The fresh application was granted in around 8 weeks so it was far quicker than the lengthy appeal process.

SHAF · Post by **SHAF** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:32 am

Hi

Spoke to the AIT today, they advise I cannot make a fresh application for settlement as an appeal is outstanding, but I can make an application for a visit visa? I am more confused!!

loozit · Post by **loozit** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:23 pm

27.9 - Fresh application while an appeal is outstanding
There is nothing in law to prevent a person who has an appeal pending from making a fresh application for entry clearance. Therefore while it may be appropriate to invite or encourage an appeal to be withdrawn it would be wrong to require a person to withdraw an appeal before allowing a further application to be made. Note that if the appellant is given leave to enter the United Kingdom, either a result of being issued with entry clearance or not, any outstanding appeal will be deemed abandoned.

This is what i was referred to when i asked about whether i could reapply and appeal at the same time. My immigration lawyer has lodged an appeal and we are submitting new application too. Unfortunately not everyone we speak to at ait and bhc are aware of rules. If they were we wouldn't have as many unlawful refusals in the first place. I think if possible you should try and get legal advice, i naively thought i wouldn't need it as i assumed the details given by government would be correct, i didn't realise there were "unwritten rules" we all have to adhere to that we are not told about.

edris · Post by **edris** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:17 pm

rainbow24 · Post by **rainbow24** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:53 pm

Shaf,

How did you find out about the decision from Islamabad? Did you use visadropbox on the Gerry Fedex website? My husband recvd a message on there saying that his visa/passport has been processed and to come to the fedex office to collect it? Like your wife, my husbands visa is being assessed at Islamabad. I'm just wondering if this means he's got the visa or if there is a catch somewhere meaning that he might go to the office and find out that he hasn't got it or they need more information etc etc.

edris · Post by **edris** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:57 am

Dear Rainbow,

tell ur hasband to go and collect the papers with his passport from Gerry's FedEx maybe the BHC put his visa in his passport or maybe not or asking him for an interview, it is unknown at the moment what happened with his application,

with regards

edris

rainbow24 · Post by **rainbow24** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:28 pm

Shaf, I am just wondering how you are getting on? Any news about your wife's case? My husband has an interview at Islamabad next week. No doubt they will make him suffer.

SHAF · Post by **SHAF** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:42 pm

Hi

Its been almost 11 weeks now since the appeal. Still no reply. BHC Islamabad have until end of april to reply back to the AIT, however my solicitor tells me that its been too long for them to reconsider most likely will go for hearing. I'm going to Pakistan next week to be with my wife. She's expecting very soon, so I need to be with her.

I dont know what is going to happen. A cousin of mine appealed for her husbands visa, they reviewed it and gave him a visa after only 4 weeks of lodging the appeal, didnt even get to the hearing!!

All I can say is that if anyone gets married from pakistan to someone that is not your relative, just lie to them and say you are long-distant relatives as these bloody ECOs beleieve if you marry someone outside of your family its against cultural norms!! What a joke. How can they get away with saying such things?

rainbow24 · Post by **rainbow24** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:37 pm

All I can say is that if anyone gets married from pakistan to someone that is not your relative, just lie to them and say you are long-distant relatives as these bloody ECOs beleieve if you marry someone outside of your family its against cultural norms!! What a joke. How can they get away with saying such things?

I totally agree with you 100%...the ECO's grilled my husband because he got married to a "white woman". They kept on and on at him asking him questions like "Why would you marry a white woman and not a Pakistani woman from your own culture"? "We find this unusual since Pakistani's tend to have arranged marriages". They might as well have said "Are you just using her for a visa"? because that was what they were getting at.

What is the procedure concerning appeals? My husband has just had a rejection on Tuesday 13th February after an interview at Islamabad BHC. The reason for his rejection was because he did not bring all the original documents with him to the interview due to misinterpretating the interview letter. They have rejected him due to no payslips, bank statements, evidence of accomodation, evidence of our marriage etc which was all in the file he left at home! Is he allowed to fax all the info to Islamabad in the hope that they will reconsider their decision?. If so, what is the time limit for this? I wasn't aware that this was an option that was available, I just thought that we would have to go straight on to the hearing.

rainbow24 · Post by **rainbow24** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:46 pm

I just wanted to add...All the best with your trip to Pakistan and Insha Allah you will have a beautiful, healthy baby. You are both in my thoughts and prayers.

I am going to Pakistan next month, to Islamabad. I haven't seen my husband for 7 months and he hasn't seen his son since the day he was born which was on 23rd Decemberr 06. I feel very sorry for both my husband and my son, but all we can do is solider on and hopefully the day will come when we can be reunited again.

edris · Post by **edris** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:38 pm

hello guys,

we best of to wait for appeal hearing because these ECO are NOT fear at all they do whatever they want, they refused my visa for nothing ( this marriage is not subsisting), because they want to show themself that they are big lawyers ah WOW
i dont know which kind of lawyers they are to restrict a right of a person to live with her/his spouses jointly. they dont mercy on us therefore,

i am waitng for appeal hearing they should file all the DOCs till 30 march 2007 and i havent heard from them yet, and my wife is disperately waiting for me and appeal hearing, i dont know onething if they are not satisified to grant us visa why they delay to send our papers onto the AIT,

at least they are human as well they should know our feelings they should stand in our place why they fond of to apart two hearts,

anywayz guys i will let you all know when my appeal hearing is done

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APPEAL OR REAPPLY SETTLEMENT VISA

APPEAL OR REAPPLY SETTLEMENT VISA