6 month general visitor visa for american girlfriend

[Bigb3n]

Hi,

I am trying to find out if my girlfriend needs a general visitor visa to come to the UK for 6 months.
The UKBA website is very ambiguous, saying that she shouldn't need a visa, but in some cases she would...

Questions:
What are the cases where she would need a visa? Do you think our situation falls into one of those cases?


Background:
We met over three years ago in the USA, have been in long distance relationship even since. She has come to visit 2 times for around 1 month each. I have been over there twice as well for similar time periods. We talk almost every day for ~2hours on Skype. We love each other.

I currently live in a shared house. I will be renting a place for the two of us just before she comes. If something goes wrong with finding a place, she can stay at my mum's for a few weeks. We don't intend to get married (in the 6 months when she is here at least). We are trying to spend a long period of time in the same place to be more confident that it is going to work longer term. We're not the type to jump into marriage just so that we can be together.

I work as an engineer. I have a good income, plenty to support 2 people and £7000 in savings accumulated in the last year.
She lives in a pretty economically depressed area with her parents, makes money by selling her art. We haven't seen each other in just over a year because of her money issues (low income + USA style medical bills...) and her parents being a total nightmare about our relationship. She has a stress disorder that can make her life pretty difficult and her parents tend to make it worse.

Ideally we would like to go on a trip to france while she is here and not buy her return flight until close to the time.


Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Ben

[Bigb3n]

Bump. All comments are welcome!

[anniecc]

If your girlfriend is a US citizen she doesn't need a visa to visit the UK for up to six months. They sometimes advise nationals of visa waiver countries to apply for a visa, but this is normally only if they have criminal convictions or a complicated immigration history in the UK (e.g. overstaying or being deported). You have not given enough information about your girlfriend's circumstances to suggest whether she would fall into one of those categories.

If your gf has visited you in the past, not sure why you think that this time would be any different? If asked, your gf will need to be able to convince the border officials that she is in the UK to holiday/visit friends, has sufficient resources to support herself, and intends to leave at the end of her stay. She shouldn't give them the impression that she's coming to live with you in some sort of trial relationship as they might conclude that she's not a genuine visitor and should be applying in a family category. In the circumstances I would recommend she buys a return ticket - not sure why your intention to visit France would be a barrier to that?

[jagacharaja]

... I would recommend she buys a return ticket - not sure why your intention to visit France would be a barrier to that?

I second this. A return ticket goes a long way to prove that she has every intention of returning back - along with proof of other ties to the home country.

[INSIDER]

A six month visit with no return ticket, no permanent employment and money issues. Unless she is lucky and gets to see an extremely laid back IO at the desk, she is almost certainly going to get refused.

[Mr Rusty]

A six month visit with no return ticket, no permanent employment and money issues. Unless she is lucky and gets to see an extremely laid back IO at the desk, she is almost certainly going to get refused.

Agreed - but the OP shouldn't assume that the possession of a return ticket will make that much difference where someone clearly has so little incentive to return to their own country as has been indicated here.

[Bigb3n]

Thanks for your replies! I had assumed that it might be pretty difficult for her to get in without a visa given our situation. Even with a return ticket do you think she still stands a good chance of getting turned back?

If we apply for a visa with evidence that I can support her and that I have somewhere for her to stay, do you think we have a good chance of getting the visa approved?
Is there anything we need to be careful not to forget in the application?
It asks for an itinerary, do we need to book the tickets first or is it ok to give an approximate date and then end up coming a few days later (to get the best ticket prices...)?

Thanks again!

[anniecc]

I'm not sure why you want to apply for a visa for your gf when she can enter the UK without one. I think you might be making this unnecessarily complicated.

There's no reason why your gf should be refused entry at the border, provided she doesn't volunteer unnecessary information, such as the fact that she's unemployed or is coming to the UK to live with her boyfriend. I've entered the UK on several occasions as a visitor and was never asked anything at the border other than how long I was staying and what I was planning to do while here. I was never asked to show any documentation. The reason why the US and other countries have visa waiver status is that they are considered low risk from an immigration perspective. Your gf will only be asked difficult questions if she gives them reasons to be suspicious, so best to keep it as simple as possible and say she's here as a tourist and to visit friends. If that's not true, and she's actually coming to the UK with the intention to live with you permanently then she should be applying in a spouse/fiance category, not as a visitor. That's when your ability to sponsor her would come in.

[INSIDER]

I'm not sure why you want to apply for a visa for your gf when she can enter the UK without one. I think you might be making this unnecessarily complicated.

There's no reason why your gf should be refused entry at the border, provided she doesn't volunteer unnecessary information, such as the fact that she's unemployed or is coming to the UK to live with her boyfriend. I've entered the UK on several occasions as a visitor and was never asked anything at the border other than how long I was staying and what I was planning to do while here. I was never asked to show any documentation. The reason why the US and other countries have visa waiver status is that they are considered low risk from an immigration perspective. Your gf will only be asked difficult questions if she gives them reasons to be suspicious, so best to keep it as simple as possible and say she's here as a tourist and to visit friends. If that's not true, and she's actually coming to the UK with the intention to live with you permanently then she should be applying in a spouse/fiance category, not as a visitor. That's when your ability to sponsor her would come in.

But I bet you weren't coming here as a visitor for 6 months.

Any IO worth his/her salt would instantly be alerted as to the genuiness of a six month visit and ask a lot more questions. The first of which would invariably be how have you got six months off work and how do you intend to support yourself for six months?

Trust me, experienced IOs have a sixth sense to sniff out dodgy visitors.
And as for US and other non-visa nationals being low risK, that is something of a fallacy. US nationals constitute one of the largest groups of denials of entry at my port together with Brazilians who are well known for overstaying and illegal working.

The key thing is she has to show she has an incentive to return to her home country. On the basis of what has been said she doesn't.

[Bigb3n]

Thanks for the responses!

The key thing is she has to show she has an incentive to return to her home country. On the basis of what has been said she doesn't.

Do you think it will be just as bad for getting a visa or do we stand a better chance with all the supporting documents about my finances etc? What kind of things would help?

I'm not sure why you want to apply for a visa for your gf when she can enter the UK without one. I think you might be making this unnecessarily complicated.

There's no reason why your gf should be refused entry at the border, provided she doesn't volunteer unnecessary information, such as the fact that she's unemployed or is coming to the UK to live with her boyfriend.

She has been given a bit of a hard time when she came over for 5 weeks. That makes me suspect that 6 months might be far worse. She can get quite nervous when confronted by people in positions of authority and tends to talk too much when she is nervous. The last thing we want is to plan the whole thing, buy tickets etc and then have her sent home...

Your gf will only be asked difficult questions if she gives them reasons to be suspicious, so best to keep it as simple as possible and say she's here as a tourist and to visit friends. If that's not true, and she's actually coming to the UK with the intention to live with you permanently then she should be applying in a spouse/fiance category, not as a visitor. That's when your ability to sponsor her would come in.

She is coming to visit me, 6 months is not permanent by definition. As I understand it, you can sponsor a general visitor, not only family. We are not married and don't plan on getting married in the short term so family, spouse and fiance visas are not applicable.


P.S. Where can I find out how to quote properly?

[anniecc]

As I understand it, you can sponsor a general visitor, not only family. We are not married and don't plan on getting married in the short term so family, spouse and fiance visas are not applicable.

Yes, you can sponsor a general visitor, I just haven't heard of anyone doing that for someone from a visa waiver country. More experienced members of this forum might be able to advise you. I understand your reasons for wanting to explore this option, but I think there's a risk it could backfire as it will draw additional attention to your girlfriend's case.

Understand you're not looking to rush into marriage, but from an immigration perspective that's often the most straight forward option for people in your type of situation, especially if you have a good income. Wish you all the best whatever you decide.

[ouflak1]

US nationals constitute one of the largest groups of denials of entry at my port together with Brazilians who are well known for overstaying and illegal working.

Do you have any links to show that this is the case with the UK?

Also, do you have any links that describe why the UK government still allows Americans to be non-visa nationals given such a well documented risk as provided in your links to the question above?

[INSIDER]

US nationals constitute one of the largest groups of denials of entry at my port together with Brazilians who are well known for overstaying and illegal working.

Do you have any links to show that this is the case with the UK?

Also, do you have any links that describe why the UK government still allows Americans to be non-visa nationals given such a well documented risk as provided in your links to the question above?

Nope I'm afraid I don't.

Its a perception I have from working at my port. I'm pretty sure I'm right though I admit to not keeping actual figures. Most are young Americans of both sexes who do no research about visiting the UK and assume because of historical ties and that they are US citizens it is perfectly fine to role up to the border ask to stay as long as legally possible and get the shock of their lives when we say no. Also a lot of these "visitors" are coming because they met someone on the internet. Often they are unemployed, have a one way ticket or have recently given up a job.

You can of course make an FOI request. If you do I'd be interested to know if my perception is correct.

Regarding why US nationals are visa-free, well it is a political decision, like all decisions as to why some nations are visa free and some aren't. Also, while US nationals are often refused at my port it has to be put in proper context. The number of refusals is still small compared to the number of US nationals who actually visit perfectly legitimately.

[Mr Rusty]

US nationals constitute one of the largest groups of denials of entry at my port together with Brazilians who are well known for overstaying and illegal working.

Do you have any links to show that this is the case with the UK?

Also, do you have any links that describe why the UK government still allows Americans to be non-visa nationals given such a well documented risk as provided in your links to the question above?

Nope I'm afraid I don't.

Its a perception I have from working at my port. I'm pretty sure I'm right though I admit to not keeping actual figures. Most are young Americans of both sexes who do no research about visiting the UK and assume because of historical ties and that they are US citizens it is perfectly fine to role up to the border ask to stay as long as legally possible and get the shock of their lives when we say no. Also a lot of these "visitors" are coming because they met someone on the internet. Often they are unemployed, have a one way ticket or have recently given up a job.

You can of course make an FOI request. If you do I'd be interested to know if my perception is correct.

Regarding why US nationals are visa-free, well it is a political decision, like all decisions as to why some nations are visa free and some aren't. Also, while US nationals are often refused at my port it has to be put in proper context. The number of refusals is still small compared to the number of US nationals who actually visit perfectly legitimately.

Spot on in every respect. It was exactly the same when I worked at Terminal 3 20+ years ago.

[Bigb3n]

Thanks for all your replies!

Based on our responses and our own research, we've decided it's best to apply for a visitor's visa. I've got a few questions about the application if anyone could give a bit of advice.

1) I have assumed that in our cover letters she needs to explain why she wants to visit and why she will be going back and I need to state why and how I will be supporting her. Does that sound right?
2) In the application it asks for an itinerary. Does that mean we need to have booked flights beforehand?
3) If not, would it be OK to buy flights on different days than stated in the application if they are cheaper (without going outside the dates in the application)?
4) Do we need to state the proposed dates of our trip to France or will that not matter once she has the visa?

Thanks again.

Ben

[wiggsy]

a european visa might be worth investing in too if going to france too?

if you are concerned that uk might refuse entry, eu could too.

[simmo]

a european visa might be worth investing in too if going to france too?

if you are concerned that uk might refuse entry, eu could too.

Can't say for sure but I doubt that she would get half as much potential grief entering Schengen. We go a couple of times a year with my Canadian wife and in four countries of entry (France/Spain/Switzerland/Bulgaria) she has never been asked a single question. Just a quick scan of her passport then a stamp.

I would say it is the UK where she is much of a potential threat as an overstayer....

[simmo]

US nationals constitute one of the largest groups of denials of entry at my port together with Brazilians who are well known for overstaying and illegal working.

Do you have any links to show that this is the case with the UK?

Also, do you have any links that describe why the UK government still allows Americans to be non-visa nationals given such a well documented risk as provided in your links to the question above?

Nope I'm afraid I don't.

Its a perception I have from working at my port. I'm pretty sure I'm right though I admit to not keeping actual figures. Most are young Americans of both sexes who do no research about visiting the UK and assume because of historical ties and that they are US citizens it is perfectly fine to role up to the border ask to stay as long as legally possible and get the shock of their lives when we say no. Also a lot of these "visitors" are coming because they met someone on the internet. Often they are unemployed, have a one way ticket or have recently given up a job.

You can of course make an FOI request. If you do I'd be interested to know if my perception is correct.

Regarding why US nationals are visa-free, well it is a political decision, like all decisions as to why some nations are visa free and some aren't. Also, while US nationals are often refused at my port it has to be put in proper context. The number of refusals is still small compared to the number of US nationals who actually visit perfectly legitimately.

I was at a loose end the other night so made the FOI request in question just out of curiosity. Will let you know when I get a response

[INSIDER]

I very much look forward to your response.

[simmo]

I very much look forward to your response.

So today marked the 20 working days UKBA had to respond (within law) to my request. But they have not!

Have sent a chaser e-mail - although looking at the site I used quite a few people have overdue FoI requests with the UKBA at present

[andreapg]

Just wanted to mention that I am American and my bf is from the UK. I always get a hard time when I go to England because every time I've come in, I was unemployed. On my most recent visit, I stayed for 5 months (and was detained for about an hour and a half, as usual). We had decided around the 3rd month that I was there, to go to Paris for 2-3 days. Going through Gare Du Nord was fine, fast, easy, the quickest passport stamp I had ever received. But, coming back, I was detained for almost 2 hours because I foolishly forgot to bring my travel documents with me. When I went to Paris, I had essentially left the UK and in taking the train back to England, I was asking for permission to enter the country again. Seems obvious now.

I had assumed that since Paris was a train ride away and we were only staying for 2 night, and I had already received my "leave to enter for up 6 months" stamp, that I would be fine but that was NOT the case. I got the biggest scare in the gare du nord passport control, I was told there was a good chance that I would be sent back to the states, I spoke to 3 different I/O's and eventually, the last woman sympathized and understood why I had made that assumption and allowed me in. Very scary!!!

I'm only letting you know so you can be sure that if you are going to France, that your girlfriend should have all her documentation with her.

I'm trying for a general visit visa this weekend for 2 months. I'll post a new thread letting everyone know of the outcome.

[danilondon]

Hi i know you entered the uk a long time ago for the 5 month duration so im unsure if the same rules apply, but did you have a visa for that visit or did you just come over and explain the nature of your visit?