Getting married - Spouse Visa / Join Family requirements

[Irishman30]

Hi,

I previously posted about my girlfriends student visa refusal.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 767#746767
We decided not to appeal.

Instead our relationship has progressed and we are now engaged. I am an Irish citizen and she's Peruvian.
So we plan to get married in July 2013 in Peru.

Today I was speaking to the VISA office in Dublin about applying for a tourist visa. I informed him about my pending wedding.
Separate to the tourist visa application, he stated as we are only together for 6 months at present - we will need to wait until June 2014 until she can apply for a join family visa.

First of all I am a surprised at this. I have read the INIS website and cannot find mention of this.
So could anyone here confirm that if I get married my girlfriend - she will need to wait until June 2014 before being allowed to apply for join family visa?
Has any Irish person gone through the process of getting married to visa required citizen and if their relationship was less than 2 years - they had to wait until that time before applying for the Join Family visa?

[IntegratedMigrant]

Having to wait for 2 years before applying for Join Family Visa is news to me. I have never heard of that and dont think that law exists.

Maybe he was trying to tell you that it would be more authentic and less likely for them thinking its a sham marriage if your were both together for 2 years before marriage rather than 6 months.

Here in Ireland for example its so hard for 2 Irish people to get married after 6 months of relationship, thats their view on marriage and they wanna make sure it is not a sham.

The Law does not exist and I dont think you'll have hard time at all getting her Join Family Visa after marriage if you're currently in employment or if shes expected to work immediately after entering Ireland. You can ask the Spouse of Irish National division for more info on that

[Irishman30]

Thanks for the response.

Yes I understand the point that having a relationship less than 2 years before marriage could look suspicious and sham like in their view.

We will have just 1 year by the time we get married in July.

My understanding from speaking to him on the phone is that our relationship would need to be of 2 years of length before we could apply for a join family visa.

I currently work and am fully employed in a stable job. Also have a good salary that could easily support the two of us. So she doesn't need to work straightaway - although in time she would look for work.

I'll speak to the Spouse of an Irish National division and see what they say as they deal with this issue directly.

[IntegratedMigrant]

In regards to your comment, you shouldn't have any problem with the immigration after marriage, but it worth asking INIS officer and Spouse of Irish National division.

Again there is no law saying that you must be in a relationship for 2 years prior to marriage as far as I know. It is false

[Irishman30]

An INIS officer and Spouse of Irish National division got back to me.
This is what they said:

She should apply for a D join spouse visa and if successful then one she
arrives in the State both of you should attend your local Immigration
office ( if residing in Dublin you attend the Garda National Immigration
Bureau, 13/14 Burgh Quay Dublin 2 or your local garda station if residing
outside the greater Dublin area) to enable her register as the spouse of an
Irish national. You take both your passports, marriage certificate and
translation if necessary and evidence of address. She will then be issued
with a registration card/stamp 4 which will allow her enter employment
without the need of a work permit or set up a business in the State without
the consent of the Minister. Her passport will be endorsed to reflect this.
There is no fee as the spouse of an Irish national. This permission will be
for one year which is renewable once you attend together and provide
evidence of joint address and she abides by the laws of the State. Visa
applications can take up to 6 weeks to process.

However if she is granted a C visit visa then she would have to make an
application to this section and those applications are done in
chronological order by the month they are received and currently they take
6/9 months to process. She would be unable to work during this time and
would become an illegal in the State once her 90 days has expired but would
not be deported once she would have an application pending with this
section.

No mention of a 2 year wait there. I did inform them that we will have 1 year of a relationship when we get married.

There seems to be a case of conflicting information at times, that makes all this so frustration.

[IntegratedMigrant]

No mention of a 2 year wait there. I did inform them that we will have 1 year of a relationship when we get married.

There seems to be a case of conflicting information at times, that makes all this so frustration.

I actually think you should sue the staff that gave you the information about having to wait for 2 years. Such law does not exist anywhere as far as I know.

Irishman30, get married whenever you want, it is nobody's business and you should never worry yourself about that.

The email you received from INIS was accurate and that's what you have to reply on. All you need now the most is proof that the marriage is of convenient e.g pictures, wedding photos, etc.

[Irishman30]

Sorry have been busy and just getting back on about this.
Hope you will be able to provide me with some further information as responses from the visa office have been less than helpful

In the information I posted from the Spouse of Irish National division which says apply for a D visa and if successful etc etc.
If not successful then apply for the C visa and if successful make an application to the Spouse of Irish National division which can take up to 9 months.

All the requirements I feel we can satisfy and can provide bank statements, relationship history no problem, finances are good, employed.

I do wonder the length of the relationship may be viewed as an issue and the fact we will not have resided together (rented / owned property) before the wedding and this will continue after the wedding until she can finally come to Ireland.
So possibly this would be my biggest concern for a refusal.

So in terms of the C visit Spouse visa - this is mentioned by Spouse of Irish National division as the second option if the D visa application fails.
Has anyone gone down this route when the D visa application failed?
And they've gone for the C visa as a result (Visit Spouse)?

I was wondering if she would be better applying for the C visit visa and making an application to Spouse of Irish National division when she arrives? So not bother with applying for the D visa.
I know she would have a waiting time of up to 9 months and would not be able to work when she would arrive to Ireland - when waiting on the outcome of the application of the Spouse of Irish National division.

My feeling is that it would be harder to get the D visa and the C visa might be more likely.

There are questions of the C visit visa should as purchase of return air ticket

Evidence that you will be accompanying your spouse – e.g. return airline/ferry tickets in both names.

If you wish to accompany your Irish spouse/EU spouse on a visit to Ireland, and you are both returning to your country of residence following your visit, the documentation listed above is required

So I am confused here. That fact if we give the indication that she wants to apply to stay in the State might be seen as negative from the Visa Officer's point of view?

[Malika]

I know you've mentioned that you are working. Just thinking aloud here .............Would it be possible if you could move to another EU country, (which incidentally could be NI but you would still be on the island) This way, you can invoke EU Immigration Laws. Which would be more useful (comes with freedom of movement for your spouse) and less hoops to jump through.

Regards,

[Irishman30]

So what you are saying that she applies for a visa to the UK?
And she comes and lives in Northern Ireland?

I am unsure on how this area works.
Would you have any information on it?

Cheers.

[Malika]

just browse these forum.................... there are many people in similar
situation or Google EU Treaty Rights.

here's a link to start you with:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... aty_Rights?


Regards,

[Irishman30]

Just an update since last I posted here. Sorry about the length but I would like to give as much info so that other people in a situation similar to mine can get a better idea how the process works from my experience.

My girlfriend I and decided to move our wedding forward and we got married in April this year in Lima. It was a civil wedding. Parents and brother & sisters made it over too, so that was great.

A few weeks after the wedding we applied for the Join Spouse D visa. I had thought about applying for the C originally but decided against it in the end. Although obligation to return to home country wasn't a requirement from the INIS website for visit visa of a person married to an Irish national, I felt that the lack an obligation might be an issue still and therefore went for the join spouse visa.
The D visa was submitted at the end of April.

After 7 weeks of waiting, I emailed the Consulate in Lima, Embassy in Mexico (this is where applications go first) and INIS office in Dublin and discovered that it took 5 weeks to get from Irish Consulate in Lima to Irish Embassy in Mexico before they dealt with the application. They performed some processing on the visa and as it was a D long term visa, it has to be sent to Dublin for approval.

The INIS office in Dublin informed me that the application arrived in Dublin mid June and it would be processed in due course.

I flew out to Peru then for 3 weeks to celebrate my wife's birthday and also in the hope the application would be approved in time - so that we could travel home together.
And last week we got the fantastic news that she got the Join Spouse D visa.
So just days before I flew home, we got the visa from the Irish Consulate in Lima, which was affixed to her passport and booked her flight to Dublin.

Had some trouble in Lima airport with the Air France / KLM officials. They said that the visa was of a poor quality. And they examined it very closely with their magnifying eye-piece. Also they took a photocopy of her passport. Alignment of her information was not correct on her visa, such name, date, code and it therefore cause them concern. Basically the Irish Consulate made a balls of it! However after 10 minutes of them looking at the visa, they allowed us to proceed. Had no further trouble in Lima.

Arrived in Amsterdam the next day. When we got to the gate for our flight to Dublin and the KLM Dutch official wasn't happy with her visa. He said it was of poor quality. We had to present him with our translated marriage certificate and even still as others boarded the plane to Dublin, we were made to wait right until the last moment. Several conversations in Dutch between different officials and phone calls took place. It was actually quite embarrassing and I was also very annoyed with Irish Consulate with providing us with a poor quality visa. Eventually we were allowed to board.

Arriving in Dublin, I expected more problems, however delighted to say the nice friendly guard on passport control had no problems with the visa at all. He said he's seen a lot worse visas than this. We queued together in the 'All other passport' queue. He just asked if were going to live here and if I had job. He didn't require to see any documents. He took a photo of my wife - I assume this is for immigration purposes...... wasn't expecting this. Is this the norm?

Anyway got stopped by customs on the way out, who scanned our bags. I think the woman who was working there was a little concerned about my wife. I had told the woman that my wife had gotten the D visa and was coming to live here. She then started to ask my wife if she had any friends here (she doesn't) or family. My wife who's English is intermediate mentioned about in-laws and that seemed to be enough for the woman. And we finally officially entered Ireland.
It struck me afterwards that maybe the customs woman was concern about human trafficking? It's the only conclusion that I can come to......

Anyway after an exhausting process of document collection & preparation and all the waiting, my wife is finally here! And the weather is good too!

Next step is to register with GNIB which we will do in the week or so, just to get her PPS number and her stamp 4 sorted.

In summary the issues we had we all with the airline staff and nothing to do with immigration staff. I guess the airlines are covering themselves against fraudulent visas and the penalties they face if the allow someone to fly on an invalid / bogus visa. I spoke about this to the Immigration guard in Dublin and he said regardless of the quality of the visa, all the had to do was to contract the officials in Dublin and they could confirm her visa number was in the system. This was not done in Lima and am pretty sure it wasn't done in Amsterdam either.

[IntegratedMigrant]

He took a photo of my wife - I assume this is for immigration purposes...... wasn't expecting this. Is this the norm

Yes this is normally for first timers arriving in Ireland. It is necessary for them to take a photo of you if you're arriving from a Non-EU country for the first time.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

@ Irishman30, I would complain about the quality of the visa and the issues it caused. Good to hear of your success.

[Irishman30]

He took a photo of my wife - I assume this is for immigration purposes...... wasn't expecting this. Is this the norm

Yes this is normally for first timers arriving in Ireland. It is necessary for them to take a photo of you if you're arriving from a Non-EU country for the first time.

Ah ok. That's fine. Didn't see people in the queue ahead of us getting their photo taken so was wondering the reason. Makes sense.

@ Irishman30, I would complain about the quality of the visa and the issues it caused. Good to hear of your success.

Thanks, happy its all sorted and she's here.
Yeh going to email the Irish Consulate in Lima today.
Anyone else I should make the complaint to?
The immigration service in Ireland also? Or is there no point?