Indian_workers_to_sue_British_govt_over_racist_rules

[desiguy]

happy 2007 to all

check this out...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Ind ... 26865.cms

[pumkin]

While I don't agree with what the UK government is doing, in what way is this new ruling 'dearly beloved' ?

I have friends who are sitting in the exact same position, but who are not Indian.

There are thousands of people effected by this ruling, from all over. Black, white, purple, pink with green spots - this ruling is effecting EVERYONE who is here on a 4 year work permit - not just those from India.

To be blunt, nowhere does it state that the work permit guarantees permanent residence. It is 'permission' to work here for 4/5 years, with a view to settlement. The UK Government does not tell us to pack up our things and make it our permanent home. That is a chance we take.

My friends could have applied for ILR now, but now have to wait a further year and apply under the new laws. We are extremely worried about their future too.

[bilalsab]

Indian media is so absurd these days, they should get their facts straight first.

[olisun]

in what way is this new ruling 'dearly beloved' ?

I was wondering the same thing...

And to add to it, I have a few collagues on HSMP in my office on their inital 1 year visa and they were not even aware of the changes.

When I told them about the changes and the effect it had on the candidates, they were like, "Who cares, Britain is not the end of the world. If they have to go back they will go back"

[AC77]

" To be blunt, nowhere does it state that the work permit guarantees permanent residence. It is 'permission' to work here for 4/5 years, with a view to settlement. The UK Government does not tell us to pack up our things and make it our permanent home. That is a chance we take. "

I would like to reply to what pumkin has said. Although I agree that the new changes cannot be strictly termed dearly beloved inspite of predominantly affecting people from south asia, I can easily say that Mr. Pumkin, get your facts right.

The HSMP programme was clearly stipulated that we will be allowed to make UK our permanent home after the initial four years of stay, provided we stay economically active in our chosen field. The UK government not only changed four years to five but has brought about totally new rules and implemented them retroactively, which is definitely a one-sided breach of the agreement they entered into with us.

To confirm, you can and must refer to the earlier HSMP application forms and guidance notes that were filled by the affected people. I clearly remember the exact wording in those forms. The obviously have removed them from the HOME OFFICE web site now.

Even though I just manage to qualify under the new rules (as of today !!), I feel being played in the hands of the home office. More than anything, I feel insulted and humiliated, rather a nutter for allowing myself to go through this uncertainty and unpredictability that will hang on until we get PR. The new HSMP (FLR) forms clearly states that even the current rules (points system for FLR) are liable to change anytime which means I might have to face a new assessment criteria when I apply for FLR in january 2009. Who knows if they make the points criteria more difficult.

if you guys could get your hands on today's (3/1/2007) The Times, there's a big article on page 24, about these changes to visa rules and how it's affecting many of us.

Moving from one country to another is not an overnight task and it is just pathetic to see a democratic government chucking out hard working, tax paying workers when thousands live here illegally.

[samkma]

I strongy oppose the move by UK Govt. not only the HSMP they change rules when they like and where they want to? I am planning of moving to US as they are the best in Immigration laws!

[British]

My question is this: Don't mistake me on this. I am just asking out of curiosity and concern for all immigrants here:

If an HSMP candidate is really "Highly skilled", then why not just think of all other alternative places that your skill can take you. i.e. any other country which welcomes skilled immigrants, where there is no serious dearly beloved crimes happening, etc.

USA is a land of oppurtunity, as is always. Australia, Canada, they are all great places to go and live and work.

I just read through the "related stories" section in the bottom of the link that the OP has posted. Reading from thoese and so many other BBC links (almost daily news these days), just think about it: Being attacked by rasict thugs on a day to day basis, severe fear and not feeling safe to get out of one own flats, etc, etc. - for a highly talented immigrant, are these even worth taking risk with.

Yes, Britain is a beautiful country, but beloved and crime is on the high. Everyday BBC news is concrete evidence.

Why not just have a safe life and immigrate to other countries where the country welcomes you, rather than moving to UK, inspite of knowing that there is too much trouble here.

With all such crime and dearly beloved attacks etc, is it worth taking the risk on life and family by deciding to move to the UK.

Even more better, these days, living in India is the best option. Very high salaries, and the best thing - being closer to your family and friends, these all give you the best quality of life.

If you ask me personally, i would love to immigrate back to India. But I have an established software consultancy of my own here with loads of work, and i am settled here with this and have loads of comittments!
BUT, by being here, a big BUT, i am missing all the other fun: i.e. not being close to my family and friends, daily traditional Indian food, no fear of beloved (i am an Indian always - a PIO atleast!), not fearing or worried about UK level crime, etc.

Anyway, if you have to go out of India / your own native country desperately, then why not try the other alternatives - Canada, Australia, where these governments welcome you for your quality of talent. You are all Highly skilled - arn't you? HSMP candidates!!

There is so much of information available these days - do your home work well! You will find the facts that UK has too much crime, govt. not welcoming immigrants and high beloved etc. With all this information, you can take an informed decision and choose the best option for yourself.

There is no point coming over here, leaving your highly paid jobs back home and the nice "life" there , and then end up irritated over the serious issues in the UK for immigrants.

Take informed decisions. That is it! You will all be fine!

Lets hope 2007 and the future years to come, are very happy and prosperous years for all of us!

regards.

[pumkin]

" To be blunt, nowhere does it state that the work permit guarantees permanent residence. It is 'permission' to work here for 4/5 years, with a view to settlement. The UK Government does not tell us to pack up our things and make it our permanent home. That is a chance we take. "

I would like to reply to what pumkin has said. Although I agree that the new changes cannot be strictly termed dearly beloved inspite of predominantly affecting people from south asia, I can easily say that Mr. Pumkin, get your facts right.

The HSMP programme was clearly stipulated that we will be allowed to make UK our permanent home after the initial four years of stay, provided we stay economically active in our chosen field. The UK government not only changed four years to five but has brought about totally new rules and implemented them retroactively, which is definitely a one-sided breach of the agreement they entered into with us.

To confirm, you can and must refer to the earlier HSMP application forms and guidance notes that were filled by the affected people. I clearly remember the exact wording in those forms. The obviously have removed them from the HOME OFFICE web site now.

Even though I just manage to qualify under the new rules (as of today !!), I feel being played in the hands of the home office. More than anything, I feel insulted and humiliated, rather a nutter for allowing myself to go through this uncertainty and unpredictability that will hang on until we get PR. The new HSMP (FLR) forms clearly states that even the current rules (points system for FLR) are liable to change anytime which means I might have to face a new assessment criteria when I apply for FLR in january 2009. Who knows if they make the points criteria more difficult.

if you guys could get your hands on today's (3/1/2007) The Times, there's a big article on page 24, about these changes to visa rules and how it's affecting many of us.

Moving from one country to another is not an overnight task and it is just pathetic to see a democratic government chucking out hard working, tax paying workers when thousands live here illegally.

It's 'Mrs' Pumkin.... I know what it states, however, it also states that you 'may' be allowed to apply for blah blah blah... - these rules are unfortunately subject to change at anytime.

[AC77]

Hi British,

I have been wondering if there's a sarcastic tone in your post.

The issues you've highlighted are serious enough for anyone, be it an entrepreneur like you or someone working in the IT industry like me.

Changing countries is not a piece of cake, going back to india is always an option for us but most of us came here in the first place taking risks with our already established careers i.e. landing here without any job in hand and then going about the job-hunting.

From my understanding, these laws clearly indicate the frustration the british governernment and people in general are having with the type of people entering this country, they hope to attract/retain only the best of the best with these changes or rather filter out those who've come here on bogus documents and doing odd jobs on HSMP. The other things is that making HSMP tighter isn't gonna help stem the flow of low-skilled people in this country who come as refugees/asylum seekers, students on fake colleges etc. HSMP abusers are only a tiny component.

The general sense I get after being here for about 20 months is that skilled indians/others are bringing a sort of a disruption in the jobs market by taking away a good share of highly skilled jobs on competetive salaries, which is creating a lot of discomfort. Moreover the overall society is not very amalgamating, which adds to the tensions. Some on these issues were discussed in last night's News Night on BBC 2.

The amazing statistic is that more than 100 thousand britons leave this country every year for good never to return, which is roughly .15 % of the population and this has been going on for many years and increasing every year on. Having so many people from outside definitely has socio-economic repurcussions.

enough of my rambling, coming back to the topic, yes, I am seriously thinking of moving back to india as it's very difficult to live in this climate uncertainty and unpredictability. looking at all these things and the social aspects (beloved, crime etc) make you feel very unwanted.

without being hypocritical, i surely love some aspects of life here in britain, the social freedom i.e. being yourself, professionally-- good quality of work and learning, availability of opportunities to grow etc...

But, I am just very tired now of being a total pawn in the hands of the home office, who can whenever they want bring about new rules and create trouble for me. It's more like "either you earn this much money or we'll kick you out" ..... it just reminds me of some people back in india who exploit their servants "either you do this much work(16 hours) or we'll cut your salary" and the poor man has no option but to comply.

May be I'm just naive, the world IS like this.....

[jes2jes]

AC77 Wrote:

But, I am just very tired now of being a total pawn in the hands of the home office, who can whenever they want bring about new rules and create trouble for me. It's more like "either you earn this much money or we'll kick you out"

From the last time I checked, the Brit government did not put a hook around the neck of anyone (HSMP, Work Permit, Students, Spouses etc) to come to this country by force. It is a matter of choice. You come to this country knowing that the rules would change and this is a risk. Isn't everything in life a risk anyway?

This is their country and they can enact any laws they choose which is favourable for them and so does India and any country in the world. No one is creating trouble for you. You made the decision to come and you find ways of adapting sir/madam! I agree sometimes the rules can be unfair but hey! this is life.

Regards
Jes

[British]

Hi,

"have been wondering if there's a sarcastic tone in your post. "

I have not intended any sarcasm at all whatsoever. On the contrary, i am just so frustrated to see talented immigrants (like yourslef) coming all the way to the UK and finding things difficult for you, inspite of the fact that the immigrants come over to the UK and contribute to this country's economic development, capital creation and value adition, but in return they get several negative effects, right from the government (like unfailr changes to immigration aspects in law, etc), by the media - who always cry out that immigrants push britain's public services to the extreme, and upt to the dearly beloved thugs on the road who tend to make an average immigrant's life a nightmare.

I was just concerned about this disrespect to immigrants in general, and i thought since most of the immigrants are highly skilled, why not they some place where people really welcome you and treat you with respect and ythey all can live in peace and happiness.

Just so you know - I am myself an immigrant, been here for 7 years so far (and counting), and am a naturalised British Citizen now.

Anyway, those are just my random thoughts. Just thought it will comfort some immigrants who go through the tough time in the UK (especially my thoughts are with those who suffer here on day-to-day basis, as is reported in the links in the OP's link's "related stories" section).

best regards.

[desiguy]

i agree with some of the comments and disagree with others.

here's an update on it. whatever tha outcome, good to know there is awareness about this and that now MP's are interested in looking into the situation.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/MPs_ ... 067325.cms

cheers

[allthebest]

Hi all,

I am agree with all the comment on the new rules for HSMP,atleast people who have existing HSMP should have been exempted from the new rules.We can say government is not keeping its promise,I know we need to take the risk, but in case of HSMP application form (Old),it states that you will make UK as your main home(Mandatory).

Now Govt is stopping all from this.I agree we all need take the risk,we have taken that in the form of some recisim,low salary,2nd class resident,missing our family at home,tight working culture.

I am also agree that we choose to come UK,it was our choice,but we succeed in that by getting a job and sttleling here.Now Govt should also consider these things.

British citizen are also leaving this contry in serach of jobs worldwide.What happens if Australia & US changes rules for EU people including UK? Would UK govt will not react,it will be a breaking news of BBC and If I am not wrong PM will say he is disappointed with the move from US & Australia,this move is completely wrong and unacceptable.This will be the line of PM office.

New rule is like if you want to come UK and work it will be harder and if UK govt. or emplyers want you to work here,then thats fine.They will apply for your work permit.

Uk Govt and experts know how much Immigration contribute to the economy.After EU expansion,UK Govt dont want non-EU to come and work.

[JAJ]

British citizen are also leaving this contry in serach of jobs worldwide.What happens if Australia & US changes rules for EU people including UK? Would UK govt will not react,it will be a breaking news of BBC and If I am not wrong PM will say he is disappointed with the move from US & Australia,this move is completely wrong and unacceptable.This will be the line of PM office.

Only if Australia or the US were discriminating against British citizens compared to those from other countries.

Australian immigration rules change all the time, incidentally.

[Rog]

Yes, Australian or any country's immigration rules change from time to time, the whole issue here is of unlawfully implementing retrospectively new immigration criteria under persons who came in under different rules with a hidden agenda to deport people as they have more East European immigation than expected. No other country have treated skilled immigrants in this manner. Many skilled migrants have moved to Australia or Canada and some of them may not have been successful and are doing lower paid jobs but are not suddenly weeded out by the respective governments.

[JAJ]

Yes, Australian or any country's immigration rules change from time to time, the whole issue here is of unlawfully implementing retrospectively new immigration criteria

I think you are hoping for too much if you think that temporary residents have a right to be exempted from any change in the law on permanent residence. They are not necessarily so in Australia.

And whether the change was in fact "unlawful" is a highly subjective opinion.