HSMP Forum Planning To Sue Racialist British Government

[sjgul]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 026865.cms

[sjgul]

If that link is slow, try this out:-

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 026865.cms

[sjgul]

Apologise for the previous post, Try this out:-

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/UK_ ... 028393.cms

[sgodhagodha]

Further Information if some one intrested in this matter.....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Good ... 040632.cms

[shockboy2000]

dearly beloved ??? what a load of rubbish.

Initial HSMP applications take into consideration the income from the COUNTRY where you WORKED (not what your NATIONALITY is).
If you work in a country where incomes are generally lower - you still get just as many points earning say 3600pounds in Afghanistan as someone having to earn 45,000+ pounds WORKING Australia (regardless of where born).

Extensions to HSMP make NO distinction on the country you came from or your race.
The rules have changed twice since i applied for initial HSMP in Dec2005 - but one thing is the same - you are expected to have come to UK and worked in the UK and use YOUR HIGH SKILLs to earn income.
All they have done now is specify some amounts.
Whether you are from Australia, India, Iraq, Antartica...EVERYONE is eligible to earn same amount in UK based on skills.

That news article for which you provide a link (which incidently makes more pop-ups appear on your screen than the average porno site), is talking about the combination of points resulting in some people no longer eligible for HSMP. Only thing that stood out to me is AGE

If you are going to sue over anything, sue about the points for age. I still cannot believe they have points for age after the recent anti-age discrimination laws in the UK.

[Markie]

same here shockboy...the younger HSMP applicants can getaway with a kill specially if they are below 29yrs old.

[sjgul]

Well,

the article is not by me , so don't have a go at me .
I just copy-pasted the URL with the same heading as of URL heading. None of my views in this. Later on found same heading and views in some another topic.

BTW: economictimes.com is considered as the best economic/business URL of India. All URLs now a days having huge pop-ups to earn money.

just as you have concerns over the age section, many people have concerns over the income section as some may have landed here 4-5 months after stamping of their VISA and may not be able to claim points for an assessment period of 8 months.
People with 1+3+1 may not be able to score 75 points for their extension even if highly skilled and working in highly skilled opputation, initially they were to get ILR after 4 years and then they were to get ILR after 1+3+1 and now an extension of the last year on showing 75 points even after 1+3.

So, please don't consider just yourself or your specific case , There is a mass public opinion on this and if people are reacting over it, there must be some reason. If you and me not getting affected, there are lots getting affected but still highly skilled.

Cheers.

[sjgul]

dearly beloved ??? what a load of rubbish.

Well, definately it is racialist policy only, Mass Opinion agrees over this and lots been discussed already on this forum.

So, no further arguments on this.

Cheers.

[shockboy2000]

if you dont want opinion, dont post on a forum.

please state how you, who were born in [insert your country of birth here] are affected more than me from Australia for example.

nowhere does the HSMP process, unless its changed by Home Office today, have different rules based on your skin colour / nationality.

mass opinion is simply one of anger because many people are now disadvantaged due to income/age/education combination. But i'm affected in just the same way as the rest.

Education and Income - YOU have control over, and can do something about to meet the UK's new rules...and they form the bulk of the points.
Yes it might mean you have to get a higher qualification or get a job that pays more, which is a pain. But you are not excluded from participating in the HSMP scheme if you meet some combination of those points in the future...which are pretty easy to get if you are indeed a HIGHLY SKILLED WORKER. Not just skilled, highly skilled.

Age - you have no control over and is discriminatory.

Anyway, let me know when the court case is - i need a good laugh with all this worrying about my own HSMP app !

[webhunter]

I am not sure, if I can add any value here, but let me try.

May be, by the term 'dearly beloved' the affected people are referring to immigrants as a whole (not just an Asian). In other words, non UK people (Britishers).

Background Info:
I have seen several instances where an Australian or a SouthAfrican is treated racially by a Britisher, the same way he would an Asian.

I hope that will throw some light on both of your ends.

[shockboy2000]

possibly, but no British people are going to apply for HSMP (unless they have 335quid to waste), therefore everyone else is in the same 'boat'.

my favourite example of beloved was trying to get into an underground party in LA - and they wouldn't let me in because i was white.
They assumed i was a cop, and its not appropriate to explain what they expected me to do to prove i wasnt. But...
it was interesting and amusing to be on the receiving end of beloved for once.

[webhunter]

I think since this is a campaign, the more attention it will have if they use titles like "dearly beloved abuse for HSMP applicants".

Anyway, keeping that aside, I am glad that some people are fighting out there against the laws. What worries me is, their focus seems to be mainly on the ILR 4 to 5 change, and not so much for those who have entered the UK initially for 1 yr under the old rules and their life changes and worries start in just 4 months after entering the country.

If it does hurt by the changes after 4 yrs, how severe it should be for people after 4 months . I have paid a 3 months rental advance for my agent and signed a 12 month contract, If I have to leave the country, firstly I could be taken to court and I lose the 3 months advance. Whom should I sue (assuming that I will have to leave the country). Well, ignore the word 'I' and replace it with people in similar situations.

God!!! help all those ...

[shockboy2000]

i'm all for helping campaigning with those who came here expecting being able to settle after 4 or 5 years but now can't...but using the title 'facial' implies the Brit govt is discriminating against people from some countries yet freely allowing people from other countries. This would be laughed at in court / at a protest due to lack of understanding of the term facial.

That news report from earlier post implied it was only discriminating against Asian people only.

I totally understand your issue webhunter with the rental agreement.

Are there any real immigration lawyers out there who will take up cases such as yours, represent you in court - or just people who will stamp things / submit your HSMP application for you, charge you 500+ quid for it regardless of whether you are accepted or not (i.e. a waste of space) ?

I think there are a lot of people with legitimate claims out there, but do they have a leg to stand on, so to speak?

[webhunter]

Fortunately, I am not really that worried ( as of now ), as I get 100 points, also spending around 600pounds for a solicitor, and can also move to a work-permit by hook or crook (if thats the need of the hour).

But, it is really scares me to imagine what people might have to go through if they dont score (whether it be 1 + 3 + 1 or 1 + 4 ). Even if the affected people or just 1 in 20, that will still be daunting ( assuming those people were Highly Skilled ).

I just pray that the court does some justice to all those in trouble. (OR) atleast orders the Home Office not to do such things in future (atleast for people who have already entered the country).

[shockboy2000]

what amazes me, is that for a 335pound application - you cant go and do it in person with the caseworker.

For 335pounds per case, which - if doco is in order - should only take 1hr max to process, they can get through at least 7 applications per caseworker per day, pull in lots of money (cause im quietly confident the caseworkers arent making 1000quid per day).

If you could go and do it in person, like i had to do when i applied for my British Working Holiday visa in canberra..you could:
a) explain the paperwork, how it ties together if the caseworker is too dumb to add up the figures for earnings for example
b) establish in person that you can speak/understand English, so no need for these IELTS exams/letters from uni. Worst case scenario they can make you write a little story on the spot if they are still unsure about your writing skills.
c) get a decision that day or next day (cause they might want to phone employer etc still with you not present)

Even if you had to make the appointment months in advance, it would still be better than the current method of sending everything in by post and hoping they dont give it to the cleaner/tea lady to process.

[webhunter]

Totally agree, I just wish they can do it in person just like other visas (even if they charge slightly extra). Day after tomorrow two of my relatives are going to extend their Student visas in person, and they are going to get a decision in minutes and they can sort out any misunderstanding (if there is any) then and there. As simple as that.

I just wish they could do the same for HSMP. Atleast for the FLR, if not for the initial approval.

[Rich ZA]

A point to remember is standardisation of assessments. Processing all the applications through one center ensures that you get assessed on a similar basis regardless of where you come from.

The experience of processing a large number of applications puts caseworkers in a better position to identify forged doccuments that isolated caseworkers may not have experienced. As far as I am aware, the greatest portion of time taken in the assessment is establishing if all documents submitted are in fact genuine.

With all due respect, the HSMP visa and the working holiday visa have very different implications to the UK government. Working holiday is catering for the low income migrant or fluctuating employment sector of the economy, while HSMP caters for more specialised skills - it would be nice to see a list of identified specialised needs.

[shockboy2000]

i realise the visas are different and HSMP needs more investigation.

so on the point of determinig if documents are genuine - i would have thought the best place to do that would be the British embassy of the country you are applying - where the caseworkers are extremely familiar with the documents used in that country alone. Also means they can contact employers etc easier since there are no time differences.
I hardly think Mrs British caseworker at UK home office is going to hang around until midnight to call up my former Australian employer for example (if i were applying for initial HSMP)

yes having all caseworkers under one roof should be fine in theory, but home office seem to be struggling with the concept of consistency

[rg1]

Folks

Let's not fight among ourselves - we are all affected by it (5-yr ILR/ new HSMP rule etc.) and in future HO will introduce more similar rules!

So, even if you are not affected today, you can be affected in tomorrow by some other draconican rule change.

Unless you become British citizen or get ILR - no one is safe!

Let's unite and fight together!

[Jayceesh]

What i find most intriguing on this HSMP changes is the fact that no one is safe. Like rg1 said, until one gets the ILR, you can not be sure of your stand in the UK.

As of today, I am one of the lucky ones with 1+4 approved before the November change, but if i say cos of that the new changes dont affect me, how am i sure that come 2010 when i am to ask for my ILR, there wont be a surprise for me as well?

We all need to have a united front to tackle these issues. I know some will be affected but at the same time some may be saved. Thats the whole point of the risks we all took in leaving out individual countries to work as HSMP in the UK

[Cheated]

Could some good soul tell me if I should apply for an HSMP extension in the first place when I just can't stretch my points to 75?
My one-year HSMP visa is due for extension next month.
Will I be wasting money if I go for an HSMP extension?
Should I pursue a WP instead?

[shockboy2000]

the application form , page 10, states that if you cannot claim 75 points - to stop filling out application form and refer to paragraph100 of guidance notes.

They will fail you instantly if you dont even try to claim 75+ points on the application form, so there is no point sending it in and paying £335

paragraph 100 talks about getting work permit.

If you are self-employed - you may be able to complete section8 of application form if you fail section7. You need to fill out both sections still though.

[Mini]

I guess beloved can also be inferred from the fact that now EU migration is acceptable and any other is not.

[shockboy2000]

So get your country to join the EU then.
EU people could come and work in Britain before these recent changes - so nothing new/facial there.

I served in the Aussie army, swore to serve and protect the Queen of England since its part of that thing we call the "commonwealth", yet she doesnt want me to freely come and work in her country.

But i'm not whining about it. i respect the EUs decision to have various beneficial agreements between its members - just in the same way MY country and YOUR country has visa requirements for foreigners working too.

It seems people want to make it a race issue because:
a) all of a sudden they're affected personally
b) dont want to face facts that they probably aren't highly skilled in the first place...and just using HSMP as a way to get residency here

I still think age is discriminatory, but at the same time can see why the younger highly skilled people may need some benefits since they have had less opportunity(years) to get experience in the workforce and get to the higher responsible/technical positions providing higher salaries

[sjgul]

It seems people want to make it a race issue because:
a) all of a sudden they're affected personally
b) dont want to face facts that they probably aren't highly skilled in the first place...and just using HSMP as a way to get residency here

Well,

a). It is a race issue and no body is trying to make it, Its not the first time things are happening this way. Nobody is pointing to the colour racisim, as if you are thinking in a narrow range. How can the British/white race be more superior even if the richest man of this country is not even a Britisher? If still you don't want to understand after lots of member comments, then seems you are trying to defend the facial steps. But still people over here and some white's consider themselves as best. One instance of this recently was the Australian Captain pushing BCCI chief to step down from the presentation function in India to get the pictures shooted at the price cermony and was shown live even on BBC. facial instances such as these are not quite uncommon, and is quite prevelant in British and Australia as well.

b). If people were not highly skilled, how come they got clearence to come and work here and once they got clearence to come and work here, they were required to prove themselves with some different targets changed drastically.

Let me ask you a question and put these cirucmstances seriously to you , don't make it a ego issue.

1). Circumstance in which you had 1 year HSMP but landed in this country 5 months later due to a personal issue back home with a view that you have a job and you need to just prove yourself economically active to get extension , but with new rules in place and just 7 months of earnings , you may not be able to take an extension and may need to pack your bags and go back home.
2). Circumstances in which you are in 1+3 scheme and having a permanent , stable job earning good outside London (not more than £35K one can get) to lead your life and your age has increased by 4 years from the date of your entry into this country. Suddenly, with this new change, your next 1 year extension on a basis of 1 year earnings is in danger.

Lots of other scenarios as well.

It's categorised as facial as the statistics of HSMP people coming into this country, majority are Asians and it is targetted to send a majority of these people here before they get ILR, Citizenship to go back as the amount of NI and taxes that can be eaten from them is fulfilled.

I don't mind any extension based points but any applicants coming with a clear understanding of the earlier scheme and then it gets changed will leave them no where.

Cheers.