SK residence permit as a non-EU family member of EU citizen

[arrecho]

Hello all. I wanted to consult with all of you on one important issue.

As a family member of an EU citizen (I was married last November to my Lithuanian wife) and have a Lithuanian residence permit, I would like to confirm some details about the bureaucratic process that exists in order to obtain a SK residence permit.

Does it continue to be the same for a non-EU citizen like me or they change somewhat as a family member of an EU citizen? If so, what are the main changes? Since I am from Venezuela, do I still need to get a criminal record from both Lithuania and Venezuela?

I write this because I have been told by the Slovak Foreign Police that since I have lived in Italy, Spain, Lithuania and Latvia in the last 3 years, due to my master's studies and jobs, I would be required to obtain a criminal record from all of those countries and also one from Venezuela, even though I have not lived there since the year 2008.

Furthermore, they also argue that I need to apply for a work permit in Slovakia, even though according to the Directive 2004/38/EC which lays out free movement rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members, I should not have to obtain a work permit in the Slovak Republic when I move with my Lithuanian wife there.

It's important to learn the appropriate and most accurate information were I to accept a position that I have been offered in Bratislava in an international company before embarking on a lengthy, unnecessary and burdensome application process.

Thank you for your attention in advance and looking forward to your comments, thoughts, replies and perspectives.

By the way, I have also ask Solvit in Slovakia, as well as the Ministry of Labour, Social Affairs & Family of SK & the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of SK for their perspective and possible assistance on this.

Have a wonderful week!

[arrecho]

Got an "answer" from Solvit:

"thank you for contacting SOLVIT with your problem. However, SOLVIT deals only with real problems, where the national authority breaches the EU legislation. In your case, it is not apparent that national authorities of
the Slovak Republic are in contradiction with EU law. You are just
requiring information what are your rights. Competent institution to
provide you with satisfactory answer would be International Organization
for Migration (national contact point in the Slovak Republic). That is the
reason why we are sending your enquiry to them. The contact person who
deals with your case is Mr. Vladimir Slama (vslama@iom.int).

We hope that answer you get from IOM will be of help to you. If you will
face the problem which is SOLVITable, please, do not hesitate to contact us again."

And IOM wrote, "IOM Migration Information Centre is providing legal and social counseling for the third country nationals who legally reside or want to reside on the territory of the Slovak Republic.

You can reside on the territory of the Slovak Republic for period of 3 months from the date of your entry, if you travel with or join your wife, who is EU citizen. You just need to have valid passport, visa (if necessary) and inform Foreign Police about beginning of your stay in Slovakia (form is attached to this email).

You can register your residence as a “Family member of the EU citizen” for time period longer than 3 months in case that your wife fulfills at least one of the following conditions:

· is employed on the territory of the Slovak Republic,

· is self-employed on the territory of the Slovak Republic,

· has enough money to cover her stay and stay of her family members,

· is studying on the territory of the Slovak Republic,

· there is a presumption that she will be employed shortly

· she has had residence on the territory of the Slovak Republic for last 5 years.


You can register your residence as a family member of the EU citizen on the competent Foreign Police Department according to your residence in Slovakia. You will need to fulfill application form (it is attached to this email) together with:

· a valid travel document – passport,

· two photographs (3 x 3.5 cm),

· document proving the existence of a family relationship with EU citizen - marriage certificate (you need to provide original marriage certificate verified by apostile or superlegalization and its official translation into the Slovak language),

· your wife´s residence card in the Slovak Republic,

· proof of accommodation in the Slovak Republic,

· documents proving fulfillment of the condition mentioned above (foreign police may ask you to provide them for example bank account statement or work contract or solo trading license etc.)."

Any thoughts?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

In general, what you are required to provide is your passport, your marriage certificate and your wife's residence certificate (or if she does not have one, her passport and evidence that she is a worker, student, self-sufficient person).

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think the problem is that you are somewhat vague about your actual plans.

Are you and your wife going to move to Slovakia together?

[arrecho]

I also thought that but the foreign police in a very rude manner are requiring those bureaucratic criminal records from all of the countries where I lived before during the last 3 years, plus the one from Venezuela.

And in order to get this last one, I would have to travel to Venezuela and buy a very expensive ticket just to get this documents, which was never required in all of the other EU Member States where I have lived before. It's a very frustrating and irrational request by the Foreign Police.

In general, what you are required to provide is your passport, your marriage certificate and your wife's residence certificate (or if she does not have one, her passport and evidence that she is a worker, student, self-sufficient person).

[arrecho]

Well, I have been offered a position but after reading about the rigidity of SK legislation regarding non-EU citizens, I am actually very cautious and intensely debating whether moving there it's good or even worth it.

Yes, if I decide to finally move, she'll move with me. But if I must get all of the criminal records from all of the countries that I have lived, an insane bureaucratic process that could take me months and a lot of money, then I would politely decline the offering.

I didn't know I was being vague about the plans. Sorry about that.

I think the problem is that you are somewhat vague about your actual plans.

Are you and your wife going to move to Slovakia together?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you were going on your own, then they might well be able to request criminal records.

If you are there together with your wife and she is either working, a student, or self sufficient (including based on your earnings), then you can apply for a residence card. You are generally not required to supply more than your two passports (or an ID card for her), marriage certificate, and proof she is working or has money in the bank.

You will need to apply for a Residence Card for the family member of an EU citizen. A bit of information is available http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... -slovakia/

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Not a government web site, but see http://www.slovak-republic.org/residence/eea/

[arrecho]

I thought that and I told them so when I made the first inquiry.

I specifically told them that we were planning to go together. They didn't care.

They said that "the fact that you are married with an EU-citizen doesn’t change anything though you are still a citizen of Venezuela. So if your wife and you would move to Slovakia you would still need a residence permit and you only get it with a work permit"

My wife would have to find a new job there.

We're still living in Lithuania but these answers and comments are giving me lots of doubts about moving to Slovakia. Seems that the way the legislation was implemented only with EU citizens in mind, not their family members.

Thanks for the comments and the websites. I already checked those but one thing is what's written and another one, the official responses I have been receiving from the authorities.

If you were going on your own, then they might well be able to request criminal records.

If you are there together with your wife and she is either working, a student, or self sufficient (including based on your earnings), then you can apply for a residence card. You are generally not required to supply more than your two passports (or an ID card for her), marriage certificate, and proof she is working or has money in the bank.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

http://expatinslovakia.wordpress.com/20 ... -slovakia/ describes the process for EU citizens. You additionally need to prove you are married to the EU citizen.

What comments here give you any doubts?

[arrecho]

It's not the comments from the page that caused me doubt.

It was the actual response from the Slovak Foreign Police.

Before, I started writing here in this forum. They told me that I needed to get ALL of the criminal records with the apostille and translated into Slovak from all of the countries, including my home country of where I have been living for the last 3 years.

http://expatinslovakia.wordpress.com/20 ... -slovakia/

What comments here give you any doubts?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The person you were talking with was wrong. It happens far more often than you might expect.

[arrecho]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll try to call them again tomorrow with a Slovak friend to see what they say. They just seem train by default to get people into a huge bureaucracy without learning or realising the EU rules on family members.

I appreciate your comments and links. Very thoughtful. Will report back.

The person you were talking with was wrong. It happens far more often than you might expect.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You should always feel free to ask that the person you are talking with ask a supervisor to join the conversation.

[tina79]

hi there. ...

well im having the same problem with my husband. I feel your pain as Im from Slovakia and just about to move back to my country after our loss our baby girl and believe me we ara having lots of problems.

I told my embassy that i lived in UK over 8 years but they say as my husband did not live with me there after our marrige the Directive 2004/38 does not apply to him and they say he is not a family member of EU citizen.

I came to Turkey to join my husband a year ago but my prem residency is still registered in SLOVAKIA> We did not live in EU coutnry toghether before.

We will try to get Schengen visa troguh Czhech embassy and then looking for a job in another EU coutnry because in SLOVAKIA there is a big burocraci and believe me not easy to deal with those people in offices. ....

[arrecho]

Wow, so sorry to hear about your baby girl, Tina.

Talking about this issue, I know it's not all Slovaks as I have friends from there and they are usually super cool and modern. Very nice to get along with. But, as you called the bureaucracy is just horrible.

After dealing with these people, I just decided it's not worth the trouble and will apply for positions in other countries as the SK Foreign Police really makes non-EU citizens unwelcome in their country. I don't know if it's the economic crisis or what but it seems that they're obsessed with putting bureaucratic obstacles so people desist from living there.

In my case, it worked. I don't have to take their abuse and there are plenty of other countries who are welcoming talents. You do well by going to the Czech Embassy. I don't think it makes a difference whether or not you live with your husband in another EU country.

I live in Lithuania with my wife and it didn't make a difference in the eyes of those bureaucrats. They don't care about the EU directive, in terms of family members, they only seem to want to apply it to other EU citizens.

For last reference purposes, here's the last email I received from IOM and to which the SK Foreign Police also ignored and said that it doesn't matter, nothing changes for me:

"Foreign Police shouldn´t require any criminal registry extract from you. It means that you only need to provide the documents I stated in my previous email.

You can come to the Slovak Republic together with your wife and reside here together for 3 months. As stated before you just need to have valid passport, marriage certificate, visa (if necessary) and inform Foreign Police about beginning of your stay in Slovakia (form “notice of the stay”).

After these 3 months you need to apply for residence as a family member of the EU citizen. Your stay will be connected with stay of your wife. That´s the reason why you will need to prove that your wife has registered her stay in Slovakia and that she is either employed, self-employed, has enough money, or has promise from employer that will be employed soon. The reason for such a procedure is to make sure that your family has sufficient financial resources to cover your stay in Slovakia and that you will not become a burden for social security system of the Slovak Republic."

hi there. ...

well im having the same problem with my husband. I feel your pain as Im from Slovakia and just about to move back to my country after our loss our baby girl and believe me we ara having lots of problems.

I told my embassy that i lived in UK over 8 years but they say as my husband did not live with me there after our marrige the Directive 2004/38 does not apply to him and they say he is not a family member of EU citizen.

I came to Turkey to join my husband a year ago but my prem residency is still registered in SLOVAKIA> We did not live in EU coutnry toghether before.

We will try to get Schengen visa troguh Czhech embassy and then looking for a job in another EU coutnry because in SLOVAKIA there is a big burocraci and believe me not easy to deal with those people in offices. ....

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Normally, the directive 2004/38/EC works for EU citizens in a member state of which they are not a national (eg French citizen in Spain; Spanish citizen in Poland). Some countries apply the directive to their own citizens, but they don't have to.

The exception to the above is when an EU citizen has already availed of their rights to freedom of movement. The argument being that not being able to return to their home country afterwards could dissuade them from moving in the first instance. This is not written explicitly into the directive, but certain countries have codified it in their national regulations. For example, in the case of the UK, they require that for non-EU spouses, the couple must have lived together in another member state and that the EU national was a worker there (or self-employed).

[tina79]

Thanks arrecho.....im tired of this whole EU thing and especial now that we have this tragic moment i cannot thing straight.

The only thing i want is to move back an try another country to settle. We are thinking to go to Vienna or Prague.

Will see how difficult will be in Slovakia to get his residency....but you doing the right thing to go somwhere else. SVK is a small country and trust me they do not really like forigners.

When we applied in UK for his EEA FP they did not ask if we lived toghether. simple was enough that i work and live there, they did contact my employer to double check.

[tina79]

Hello all..

well i have moved back to Slovakia and my husband will joining me soon. I am here to find out what he will need and try to find a job in Vienna as it is much easier from here then from Turkey.

After lots of argument with the SVk embassy in Ankara i have managed to meet the director of the Forien Police Department and asked him to explain to me all the requitments that we will provide for my husband. I was shocked and supprised!!!!! I told him, it is non sence for my husband who is married to an EEA citizen to ask so many things and top of it 30,000 EURO health insurance cover. He was nice and told me the followings:

" Unfortunately the embassies are not fully aware of the law and many times they are scare away foriengers to come or move to SVK. As your husband is married to you and your premanent residency is still registerd here even if you lived abroad your husband has to provide the following documents to get his perm residence permit:

1.his passport
2. your ID
3. 2 x photopgraps
4.your marriage certificate translated to Slovak and registered in SVK
5. his criminal record from Turkey translated and appostilized
6. to show that he has at lest 2400 EURO on his accoutn or you can provide a letter to say that he is under your responsibility and you will look after him
7. a copy of the deed for property where you are resigtered ( as we will stay with my parents they need copy of this)

After providing these docs he will get the perm residency. After this the police station will give him 30 days to go to a health check up and to sign up for health insurance that all SVK citizen has.

Well i told him what about the 30,000 EURO health insurance. He said, he has nothing to do with that. When a slovak ciziten returns home he has to pay his health insurance which is 55 EURO/month unless will sign up for jobseeker allowance, in case the goverment will pay until he/she finds a job. This will be for your husband too but maybe he will have to pay 65EURO/month as he is foreing but cannot get jobseeker allowance.

Also he can go to any EU country and he can work in Slovakia without work permit too as he will have the same right like you.

Now, i think if you do not go and ask directly the person who does this every day, and you go my the law and embassy what they say, you can have heart attack!!!!

I bit calma now, but still there is a long way to go to get this. .....also he told me i shoudl tell ont he Foreing Police Dep. that we are returning back home so he sai, it might me much easier. Will see....

Just wanted to give you and update to show you that the burocacy in SVK is nr.1.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

tina79,

Are you able to use this route because you worked in the UK, or for some other reason?

[tina79]

hi,

we are going donw this route beause this is the law in slovakia, not because i lived in UK.

However, he was so kind and told me that when i go the other police staion i should mention to them that we are returning home so he said there might be other option and easier. I will go there next week and will see what they will say....

At least i dont need to stress myself about the stupid documetns what is it says in the law as it just confusing people. From 1st May 2013 is a new law and i think they have noticed that many slovak girl and men are marry foreing people, so they start making it easier for them.

He also said, that i did god by not sing off from my prem residency here in slovakia as if i would have done it, then i have no chance to bring my huband over as first i will have to resigter myself back and it takes longer and its harder....

I defo will mantion them the Directive where it says that if you have exercised your treaty rights in other EU and retuning back our spouse has the right o joining you...but the probelm is that we never lived in UK together:(..not sure if this will apply..