Referee statements on Naturalisation application

darksquid · Post by **darksquid** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:42 pm

Hi guys,
I'm just getting all my naturalisation ducks in a row in advance of my appointment at my local Nationality Checking Service center next month. (there's one near Glasgow now - woo hoo!).

As referees, I'm using the next-door neighbour of my husband's parents, and one of my husband's best friends. My mother-in-law took the referee form to her neighbour for me, as they live some distance from us, so unfortunately I wasn't able to explain the form to him in person.

In the section headed 'Say how you know the applicant', he wrote simply 'In-law of neighbour.' Following his lead, my husband's friend wrote simply 'Wife of friend'. I was hoping for a bit more detail! I'd really rather they not get disturbed by phonecalls from the Home Office requesting more information

Is this sufficient?

edited for clarity - East Kilbride NCS isn't *IN* Glasgow!

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:57 pm

darksquid wrote:Is this sufficient?

Well, probably, because when I've acted as a referee on naturalisation applications (which I've done twice, I think), I've simply put "friend", which has been completely true but which doesn't really tell anyone very much. What your referees has put is more detailed. The only thing is: do they know you personally? I presume that they do...

darksquid · Post by **darksquid** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:23 am

Yes, they both know me reasonably well. So that shouldn't be an issue.

Another thing... the neighbour is a retired police officer, and my husband's friend is a fireman. My husband's parents assured me that a police officer would be considered a professional for the purposes of this application, but now I am beginning to wonder. The guidance notes are vague at best.

I don't know any lawyers or doctos personally, however I do know a couple of non-medical PhD doctors (one in biochemistry, and one in artificial intelligence). Would these two be preferable?

Post by **John** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:40 am

Darksquid, I think you are worrying unnecessarily. As long as they are British, aged at least 25, and do not have criminal convictions .... relax .... simply not an issue.

darksquid · Post by **darksquid** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:18 am

Thanks, John...I appreciate your voice of reason!

I am just concerned about the recent changes that have been made to the requirements for referees...One referee now must be a 'person of professional standing, such as a doctor, minister of religion, civil servant, or a member of a professional body eg accountant or solicitor'. The forms would not have been changed in such a way unless the Home Office was serious about this requirement being met - would they?

The response to my email to the Home Office merely pointed me to the guidance notes. And of course the guidance notes are so unbelievably vague to the point of complete uselessness!

Is a policeman (or a fireman) a civil servant? Is a biochemist a 'professional'? I belong to the professional body of my profession (paper conservation), but I certainly wouldn't think that automatically qualifies me as a professional for Home Office purposes!

You're right that I am probably worrying needlessly! But I worry only because these are recent changes, and I feel applications submitted during this time might be treated as guinea pigs until precedent is set. I don't want to get it wrong!

Post by **John** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:33 pm

Darksquid, thanks for that. You are right to think I was overlooking the new design of the form ... released just last month.

It seems like IND ave introduced the same requirement as for signing passport application forms. There the form must be countersigned by the sort of person you are describing.

If that is indeed the case, it should be noted that Company Director is within the list acceptable to sign a passport application form.

darksquid · Post by **darksquid** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:54 pm

Bah, well then it really does appear as if I am up sh*t creek, in that case.

I have only been with my GP for two years, and the only other person I know that would qualify is my IFA, who I have also only known for 2 years. Both of my husband's parents would qualify, but I can't use them! I have lived in the UK for 8 of the past 10 years, and have been fortunate to have made friends with a large number of British people. However, not a ONE of them would qualify as a professional under the Home Office's definition! They're all lowly arty or workman types! Obviously not trustworthy!

What about civil servants? *I* am a low-level civil servant, as are all of my co-workers - however, I haven't been with this job for three years, and haven't known any of them for that long.

*IS* a policeman a civil servant? Or would he be disqualified as a referee under the 'Must not be employed by the Home Office' requirement?

So is this really something that will make or break an application?? Should I just go with what I've got (retired policeman and a fireman), and hope the NCS will be able to advise before sending my application off and potentially losing me a couple of hundred quid?

Because otherwise, I'm going to have to wait another year before any of my people of 'merit' will have known me for three years.

darksquid · Post by **darksquid** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:14 pm

Ok, as the new Naturalisation referee requirements seem to be quite similar to the countersigning requirements for applying for a British passport, I thought I would look up the list of acceptable people for countersigning passport applications. Would it be correct to assume that anyone on this list would *probably* be acceptable as a referee for Naturalisation? I notice police officers and firemen on the list!

The list is as follows (from http://www.passport.gov.uk/passport_countersign.asp):

Acceptable countersignatures:

* Accountant
* Articled clerk of a limited company
* Assurance agent of recognised company
* Bank/building society official
* Barrister
* British Computer Society (BCS) - Professional grades which are Associate (AMBCS), Member (MBCS), Fellow (FBCS) (PN 25/2003)
* Broker
* Chairman/director of limited company
* Chemist
* Chiropodist
* Christian Science practitioner
* Commissioner of oaths
* Councillor: local or county
* Civil servant (permanent)
* Dentist
* Designated Premises Supervisors
* Director/Manager of a VAT registered Charity
* Director/Manager/Personnel Officer of a VAT registered Company
* Engineer (with professional qualifications)
* Fire service official
* Funeral director
* Insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
* Journalist
* Justice of the Peace
* Legal secretary (members and fellows of the Institute of legal secretaries)
* Local government officer
* Manager/Personnel officer (of limited company)
* Member of Parliament
* Merchant Navy officer
* Minister of a recognised religion
* Nurse (SRN and SEN)
* Officer of the armed services (active or retired)
* Optician
* Person with honours (e.g. OBE MBE etc.)
* Personal Licensee Holders
* Photographer (professional)
* Police officer
* Post Office official
* President/Secretary of a recognised organisation
* Salvation Army officer
* Social worker
* Solicitor
* Surveyor
* Teacher, lecturer
* Trade union officer
* Travel agency (qualified)
* Valuers and auctioneers (fellow and associate members of the incorporated society)
* Warrant officers and Chief Petty Officers

jazbaati99 · Post by **jazbaati99** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:50 pm

A bit off topic but can you kindly post the address of Glasgow NCS. Couldn't seem to find that from ncs page of homeoffice.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... nality/ncs

Regards

Post by **John** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:07 pm

That is the full list on the webpage you mention. There is no NCS office in Glasgow.

And I was about to post there there are no NCS offices in the whole of Scotland, but I am delighted to see that would no longer be a correct statement. Pleased to see that there is now an NCS office in South Lanarkshire .... that is, in East Kilbride.

So that is clearly the nearest one for you.

If it is any consolation there is no NCS office in Birmingham either. Anyone from here wanting to use NCS needs to travel Dudley a few miles away.

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:39 pm

If that is indeed the case, it should be noted that Company Director is within the list acceptable to sign a passport application form

You can buy an Ltd company off-the-shelf for about £50-£100. You can appoint anyone as director of the company. Sorted.

darksquid · Post by **darksquid** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:40 pm

John, that's the one I was referring to. East Kilbride could probably safely be considered part of greater Glasgow, but I've edited my original post to avoid confusion. I've made my appointment there for the 9th of February, so I will report back with any helpful information they can give me about the new requirements.

jazbaati, it's not in Glasgow proper, but isn't far from it.

Here is the information from the Home Office website:

South Lanarkshire
Nationality Checking Service Team,
District Court, Licensing and Registration Office,
Civic Centre,
Andrew Street,

East Kilbride,
South Lanarkshire
G74 1AD

Telephone: 01355 806216
Fax: 01355 248847
E-mail: dclr@southlanarkshire.gsx.gov.uk
Website: www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk

Marco 72 · Post by **Marco 72** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:38 pm

darksquid, I called the Home Office helpline a few weeks ago and they told me that "anyone working in a professional organisation" qualifies as a person of professional standing. I'm not sure what they mean by "professional organisation". The best thing would probably be to ring the home office helpline (0845 010 5200) and ask if a particular person you have in mind qualifies as such. It might also be a good idea to call the NCS you made the appointment with and ask them the same question before you go there.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:16 pm

Marco 72 wrote:darksquid, I called the Home Office helpline a few weeks ago and they told me that "anyone working in a professional organisation" qualifies as a person of professional standing. I'm not sure what they mean by "professional organisation". The best thing would probably be to ring the home office helpline (0845 010 5200) and ask if a particular person you have in mind qualifies as such. It might also be a good idea to call the NCS you made the appointment with and ask them the same question before you go there.

So a cleaner working for a bank could sign your form? Or a cook working in an accounting firm's office canteen? Or how about the doorman in a large law firm? These are all people working in professional organisations.

MUGHAL · Post by **MUGHAL** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:42 pm

well done.
thanks
mughal

darksquid wrote:Ok, as the new Naturalisation referee requirements seem to be quite similar to the countersigning requirements for applying for a British passport, I thought I would look up the list of acceptable people for countersigning passport applications. Would it be correct to assume that anyone on this list would *probably* be acceptable as a referee for Naturalisation? I notice police officers and firemen on the list!

The list is as follows (from http://www.passport.gov.uk/passport_countersign.asp):
Acceptable countersignatures:

* Accountant
* Articled clerk of a limited company
* Assurance agent of recognised company
* Bank/building society official
* Barrister
* British Computer Society (BCS) - Professional grades which are Associate (AMBCS), Member (MBCS), Fellow (FBCS) (PN 25/2003)
* Broker
* Chairman/director of limited company
* Chemist
* Chiropodist
* Christian Science practitioner
* Commissioner of oaths
* Councillor: local or county
* Civil servant (permanent)
* Dentist
* Designated Premises Supervisors
* Director/Manager of a VAT registered Charity
* Director/Manager/Personnel Officer of a VAT registered Company
* Engineer (with professional qualifications)
* Fire service official
* Funeral director
* Insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
* Journalist
* Justice of the Peace
* Legal secretary (members and fellows of the Institute of legal secretaries)
* Local government officer
* Manager/Personnel officer (of limited company)
* Member of Parliament
* Merchant Navy officer
* Minister of a recognised religion
* Nurse (SRN and SEN)
* Officer of the armed services (active or retired)
* Optician
* Person with honours (e.g. OBE MBE etc.)
* Personal Licensee Holders
* Photographer (professional)
* Police officer
* Post Office official
* President/Secretary of a recognised organisation
* Salvation Army officer
* Social worker
* Solicitor
* Surveyor
* Teacher, lecturer
* Trade union officer
* Travel agency (qualified)
* Valuers and auctioneers (fellow and associate members of the incorporated society)
* Warrant officers and Chief Petty Officers

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Referee statements on Naturalisation application

Referee statements on Naturalisation application

Re: Referee statements on Naturalisation application

list of referees(professional)