non-eu parents of British national in Ireland

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:03 pm

Guys,

British national working in Ireland with wife and two children (all British), can his non-eu parents live (long term) with him in Ireland?

In that case what type of supporting documents required, how easy/difficult the application procedure, how long it takes?

Any ideas? much appreciated.

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:25 am

more than 30 views, no response.

Does anyone know the rules (and procedure) in that scenario?

IntegratedMigrant · Post by **IntegratedMigrant** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:46 am

Its near impossible really and I dont know where to start!. To start with are you non-eu parents dependents of you and are well off with money (rich)?

Its easier to bring your parents if you win a lottery.

IntegratedMigrant · Post by **IntegratedMigrant** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:48 am

Another possible way to bring them up is finding a job for them here and getting them apply for a visa through that. They could stay for a long time depending on the job

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:58 am

IntegratedMigrant wrote: Its easier to bring your parents if you win a lottery.

Good one but not easy.

I thought it would be quite easy because I read, EU citizen (as British you are) working in a EU member of state, can bring their non-eu parents for 3 month or more than 3 months:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re ... nts_en.htm

Am I missing something?

IntegratedMigrant · Post by **IntegratedMigrant** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:58 am

fajr wrote:I thought it would be quite easy because I read, EU citizen (as British you are) working in a EU member of state, can bring their non-eu parents for 3 month or more than 3 months:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re ... nts_en.htm

Am I missing something?

At the end of the day they'll need a VISA which can be quite difficult to obtain. I will also suggest that you put more effort on this to see it through. Contact the Treaty section and see what they have to say in regards to that.

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:30 am

IntegratedMigrant wrote: At the end of the day they'll need a VISA which can be quite difficult to obtain. I will also suggest that you put more effort on this to see it through. Contact the Treaty section and see what they have to say in regards to that.

That's what I am trying to find. Which visa would be difficult to obtain? EU1 Application for a Residence Card?

Has anyone gone though with that process?

IntegratedMigrant · Post by **IntegratedMigrant** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:14 pm

fajr wrote:That's what I am trying to find. Which visa would be difficult to obtain?

Has anyone gone though with that process?

The visa that would be difficult to obtain is a visa for your family to join you in Ireland which is simply a long stay visa (VISA D). Now thats when it gets difficult.

jeupsy · Post by **jeupsy** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:34 pm

Accorting to this guide to directive 2004/38 from the European commission's website, the parents of an EU citizen which is residing in another member State than their home EU country have exactly the same rights as their spouse (ie the host State has no scope for refusing a visa or a residance card application unless the parent is a security threat):

EU guide wrote:Your dependent direct relatives in the ascending line (i.e. parents, grand-parents …) and those of your spouse or registered partner.

The above family members enjoy the rights granted by the Directive when they join or accompany you and the Member States have no scope for discretion in recognition of their rights.

So in theory all the documents they can require to process the visa and residance card applications are proofs that the EU citizen is living and working in Ireland (contract of employement, tax form, lease for the house, PTRB registration form, ...), and that the visa applicant is indeed a direct ascendant (birth certificate).

Now I am not sure how Ireland implemented the directive - maybe the best is to email the EUTR section and ask them (eutreatyrights@justice.ie).

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:13 am

jeupsy wrote:
EU guide wrote:Your dependent direct relatives in the ascending line (i.e. parents, grand-parents …) and those of your spouse or registered partner.

Now I am not sure how Ireland implemented the directive - maybe the best is to email the EUTR section and ask them (eutreatyrights@justice.ie).

Thanks and that's what I was referring. I don't know the mechanism too, will email them shortly.

What I have gathered is that they need an entry visa. I don't know which visa category (or form) they apply under. After coming to Ireland they need to apply for Residence permit. Still I don't know how/which form to use/how long it takes.

jeupsy · Post by **jeupsy** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:12 am

The visa application is online: https://www.visas.inis.gov.ie/avats/OnlineHome.aspx

I think you should pick "Other" in reason for travel and enter "Join Child (EEA National)" in purpose of travel. For EUTR applications some people have had 3 months C visas (with quick processign time) and other have had 6 months D visas but in that case the processing time was longer. You might want to ask which type to apply for in yoru email to the EUTR team (they might say they don't know as they only take over the applications once people have arrived to Ireland, in the case you should email the embassy of the country where your parents are living ... and anyone I don't think which type of visa they apply for really matters). One piece of advice: when you supmit the supporting documents to the embassy, include a letter explaining that you are make the applications under EU Treaty Rights (EU directive 2004/38) and that that have to examine the application based on EU laws and proccess it in and expedited way (they are supposed to process it in less than a month, which they usually do for type C visas but not for type C ones).

Once they are in Ireland the form to apply for the residance card will be that one: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20E ... %20EU1.pdf

(and actually given that there is a box for "parent" in the form, I assume they are accepting this kind of application)

Processing time will be exactly 6 months but as long as you submit the documents required in the form your parents will be givent a temporary Stamp 4 about a month after you submit the application.

the hurricane · Post by **the hurricane** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:34 am

jeupsy wrote:The visa application is online: https://www.visas.inis.gov.ie/avats/OnlineHome.aspx

I think you should pick "Other" in reason for travel and enter "Join Child (EEA National)" in purpose of travel. For EUTR applications some people have had 3 months C visas (with quick processign time) and other have had 6 months D visas but in that case the processing time was longer. You might want to ask which type to apply for in yoru email to the EUTR team (they might say they don't know as they only take over the applications once people have arrived to Ireland, in the case you should email the embassy of the country where your parents are living ... and anyone I don't think which type of visa they apply for really matters). One piece of advice: when you supmit the supporting documents to the embassy, include a letter explaining that you are make the applications under EU Treaty Rights (EU directive 2004/38) and that that have to examine the application based on EU laws and proccess it in and expedited way (they are supposed to process it in less than a month, which they usually do for type C visas but not for type C ones).

Once they are in Ireland the form to apply for the residance card will be that one: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20E ... %20EU1.pdf

(and actually given that there is a box for "parent" in the form, I assume they are accepting this kind of application)

Processing time will be exactly 6 months but as long as you submit the documents required in the form your parents will be givent a temporary Stamp 4 about a month after you submit the application.

To be honest with you it is quite challenging because last time I helped someone in the similar situation as you ( he is a Swedish national and wanted to invited his non-eu parent), and his mother got a refusal last this week. the reason was really lame , they said that he didn't supply enough evident that his mother was fully depending on him ( while he supplied all necessary documents) and they also stated that there is no evidence that his mother will not survive without him as she still live in her country of origin. But, I don't wanna discourage you though. Why don't you try with schengen first then apply for Ireland? Btw if you decide to apply for Irish visa you should click on other then write joining child eea national that is how I was told. Any way good luck with

!!!

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:41 am

the hurricane wrote: the reason was really lame , they said that he didn't supply enough evident that his mother was fully depending on him ( while he supplied all necessary documents) and they also stated that there is no evidence that his mother will not survive without him as she still live in her country of origin.

Why don't you try with schengen first then apply for Ireland? Btw if you decide to apply for Irish visa you should click on other then write joining child eea national that is how I was told. Any way good luck with !!!

In the question of dependency, only I need to prove is that they are financially dependent on me. Is it correct?

And Ireland is not part of schengen, so not sure how that would help getting in Ireland..

Thanks for your advice guys, very much appreciated.

the hurricane · Post by **the hurricane** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:06 pm

fajr wrote:
the hurricane wrote: the reason was really lame , they said that he didn't supply enough evident that his mother was fully depending on him ( while he supplied all necessary documents) and they also stated that there is no evidence that his mother will not survive without him as she still live in her country of origin.

Why don't you try with schengen first then apply for Ireland? Btw if you decide to apply for Irish visa you should click on other then write joining child eea national that is how I was told. Any way good luck with !!!
In the question of dependency, only I need to prove is that they are financially dependent on me. Is it correct?

And Ireland is not part of schengen, so not sure how that would help getting in Ireland..

Thanks for your advice guys, very much appreciated.

well dependency is open to interpretation because it is not well defined by the European Commission ( so it doesn't have to financial). The person I helped provided western union receipts, tickets that he visits his parent twice a year but that wasn't enough. Well regarding my schengen my reasoning is as follows; if u manage to get a schengen visa on basis of EU treaty and then apply for Irish visa. in my opinion you will have more chance to get a visa than just apply directly for Irish visa.

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:21 pm

the hurricane wrote: if u manage to get a schengen visa on basis of EU treaty and then apply for Irish visa. in my opinion you will have more chance to get a visa than just apply directly for Irish visa.

to get schengen visa, I need to be in a schengen country working and living there. One more issue to clarify though, you are saying its difficult to get entry visa as dependent. How about entry as visitors then apply for Residence permit using EU1, possible?

the hurricane · Post by **the hurricane** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:43 pm

fajr wrote:
the hurricane wrote: if u manage to get a schengen visa on basis of EU treaty and then apply for Irish visa. in my opinion you will have more chance to get a visa than just apply directly for Irish visa.
to get schengen visa, I need to be in a schengen country working and living there. One more issue to clarify though, you are saying its difficult to get entry visa as dependent. How about entry as visitors then apply for Residence permit using EU1, possible?

Not necessary, to apply for schengen visa you don’t need to work or live there, the purpose could be tourism. I honestly don’t have answer on that as I am not really familiar with the Irish system, I am just telling facts that I have experienced maybe other forum members know more about it.

jeupsy · Post by **jeupsy** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:02 pm

Forget the Shenghen visa, it will just double your trouble.

If they apply for a visitor visa, the embassy might have them write a letter sting that they don't intend to stay in Ireland after the visa expires. T probably doesn't have much legal value against EU laws, but still they would have to lie on the letter.

Aside from this, yes if they come on a visitor visa they still have the right of having their EU1 application examined. They only thing is that they need a long enough visa for you to get all the documents required for the application and to allow for the initial processing to be completed. I think the need at least a 2 months visa.

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 am

Thank you both "the hurricane" and "jeupsy", useful information and advice. that's sort of information I was looking for. many thanks.

fajr · Post by **fajr** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:56 am

jeupsy wrote: Aside from this, yes if they come on a visitor visa they still have the right of having their EU1 application examined. They only thing is that they need a long enough visa for you to get all the documents required for the application and to allow for the initial processing to be completed. I think the need at least a 2 months visa.

thanks for reply, one more question though, can I launch the EU1 visa application while they are not in Ireland?

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