Non-EEA & EEA Civil Partner

erasmus · Post by **erasmus** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:37 pm

Hello everyone,

I am a newcomer for this forum and found it extremely useful. I have a quite complicated case and would be very grateful for any of your advices.

I am a Non-EEA National, currently pursuing my PhD in the UK after studying undergraduate and masters degrees in other EU countries (mainly Schengen countries) for the past 6 years. I have not got a French partner for the past 2 years (we are seperated, as he were studying in France but he came here to do stages (placement) and Erasmus exchange).

We are now thinking of getting a civil partnership, either in UK under the new legislation or in France under the so-called PACS. As I am approaching the end of my PhD and my visa will expire next year. As my partner is now doing his final placement in London, and we both plan to work in UK after our studies, I am thinking to apply for the EEA Family Residence (as I am also fed up with all the immigration rules and difficulties for Non-EEA nationals!).

So I have a few questions:

1) I guess the first step will be for my partner to get a EEA 1 residence permit, is it possible if he is doing a 6-month placement (unpaid but accommodation provided) at the moment? I saw on the website, he could get it via the same day service at Croydon, is it correct?

2) Once he gets his EEA 1, would I be able to obtain a EEA 2 family residence? How long will the application take and how long will the certificate be valid? Do you know how much it will cost? I also have a problem as for my research, I need to travel frequently in EU, can I get my passport back or I have to make new application every time once I get back my passport?

3) I think I may also qualify for HSMP, I am not sure which one will be better for my case...

Sorry for 'bombing' you with so many questions but I would be really grateful if you could help me on this complex issues.

Thanks a lot,

Erik

Post by **John** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:47 pm

In order to register the Civil Partnership you will need to apply for a CoA ... a Certificate of Approval to Register a Civil Partnership.

Once you have that the two of you can proceed to register your Civil Partnership in the UK.

Since 30.04.06, when new EU/EEA regulations came into force, it is not necessary for your partner to apply for a Residence Permit. He can if he wants, but does not have to.

After the Civil Partnership has been registered, maybe a better idea would be for your partner to submit a EEA1 form and you to submit an EEA2 form ... sending both applications in at the same time, indeed in the same envelope.

HSMP? Far easier for you to apply for a Residence Card by using form EEA2.

erasmus · Post by **erasmus** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:54 pm

Hi John,

Thanks so much for your quick reply.

I have heard about the CoA, however, I found it is costly & timely to apply. Therefore, we were thinking getting the French Civil Partnership (PACS), do you think it will be treated and reconginsed equally by the IND/Home Office?

As far as I know, EEA 1 is essential for my EEA 2 application, right? In your opinion, will it be difficult for my French partner to get a EEA 1 certificate even as he is (almost unpaid) intern in UK?

We also think EEA 2 will be easier also better since it is valid for five years (is it correct?), but I just saw on the HO website, that they are still processing applications from Sept 2006, does it take this long? Is it because EEA service is provided free of charge?!

Thanks again so much for all of your help!

Erik

Post by **John** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:17 am

A number of points there. Again I reiterate that as from 30.04.06 it is not necessary for an EEA Citizen exercising Treaty Rights in the UK to apply on form EEA1 for a Residence Permit. They can if they want, but do not have to.

Being a student in the UK is a way of exercising Treaty Rights, as is being employed.

Does the UK recognise a French-registered Civil Partnership? Have a look at this IND webpage. On that page you will see that the UK recognises a French "pacte civil de solidarité".

Registering a Civil Partnership in the UK. A CoA would cost £135 to apply for and the process takes about a couple of months.

I suggest that wherever the two of you register your partnership that your partner applies on form EEA1 and you apply on form EEA2 ... at the same time. Basicly the two applications will be self-supportive.

erasmus · Post by **erasmus** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:46 am

Thanks again John for your detailed reply.

Now I have found that UK does recognise the PACS in France and I think we will go that route as the CoA and concequent procedure will take a while.

I will keep you posted of any further developments and really appreciated your help!

Cheers & Fingers Crossed...

Liberal Immigrant · Post by **Liberal Immigrant** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:21 am

Dear Erasmus,

I have been reading and deciphering the EEA1 and EEA2 forms for the last 2 months.

You need to download and read and understand the April 30th 2006 Regulations as JOHN has already mentioned to you.

You can find these at:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20061003.htm

Your fiance/partner needs to be a QUALIFIED person in UK for you to launch an EEA2 application.

The definition of QUALIFIED and all the conditions are set out in sections 4/5/6/7 of the regulations.

Moreover, I agree with you i.e. the UK Home Office takes years to consider and allow CoA, i strongly recommend you get married in France as that will be fully recognised under UK law.

Lastly, I will recommend you seek an expert solicitor's help in this regards bcoz in my experience most UK lawyers are idiots especially when it comes down to EA law.

I know 1 good lawyer who sorted out my mother's EEA2 status, my mother was failed asylum seeker. leme know if u need her details.

Liberal Immigrant · Post by **Liberal Immigrant** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:23 am

forgot to tell u why i recommend using a lawyer.

the HO has 2 think twice before refusing when one uses a lawyer bcoz they know that the lawyers know their stuff well and will appeal and will take things seriously.

Post by **John** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:33 am

the UK Home Office takes years to consider and allow CoA

That is not correct at all, if the applicant is legally in the UK and not just as a visitor, or the holder of a visa of less than 6 months duration. From what is posted the OP is here in the UK on a student visa and has been for some time. Accordingly the CoA application will tend to take about 2 months to process.

Compared to registering a "pacte civil de solidarité" in France ... I have not got a clue how long that takes, but it is bound to take some time.

Liberal Immigrant · Post by **Liberal Immigrant** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:22 am

John, you are right, it does'nt take years.

I confused this thread with another thread in which the applicant was a failed asylum seeker in UK in which case it takes YEARS if not months for the Home Office to consider the CoA.

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:59 pm

Erasmus, you can sign the PACS at the french consulate in London, no need to go to France.

http://consulfrance-londres.org/article ... erche=pacs

Post by **John** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:08 pm

Erasmus, before you consider the idea from flyboy, do investigate whether the UK would recognise a PACS registered in London. Do not simply assume that they would.

I make this comment because it is possible to get married at certain embassies in London, and whilst such a marriage would be recognised as legally valid in the country of the embassy concerned, it will not be recognised as valid in the UK, unless the embassy concerned has been registered as a valid place for conducting UK weddings, like a hotel or conference suite sometimes is.

I suspect that the law is no different as regards a Civil Partnership, or its equivalent under the laws of another country. Except for Civil Partnerships in the UK they must be signed in a Register Office, and nowhere else.

erasmus · Post by **erasmus** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:29 pm

Hi Flyboy and John,

Thanks for both of your comments and advices.

I called the Home Office and they told me I could apply for EEA2, and it takes about a few months to half year! And the validity of the permit will be between 2 years to 5 years, but I do not know what is the criteria for the duration? The officer just told me that the case worker to look at it and decide...the good thing is that I could take the passport back for traveling purposes (which i do often) and will not cancel my application even the passport is returned to me.

I also found out about sorting out the PACS in London. But flyboy, nevertheless I will still need to go to Paris, to get some paperworks and my partner also need to get documents from his commune...you know how complicated French system is...I am really not sure if the PACS issued in London will be valid, I hope soooo...where shall I check? As far as I know, the PACS is recognised in the UK as the civil partnership...

I have contacted Dutch consulate and fortunately they accepted civil partnership application for Schengen visa (free of charge) even my partner is French. They are much more liberal than the French one since they do not even give any 'spouse' treatment to PACS holder...!

Cheers and thanks mates!

France

France recognises a form of civil union: pacte civil de solidarité, or PACS. Same-sex couples who are registered in a PACS in France may be recognised by the UK as equivalent to a civil partnership in the UK, providing the couple who have registered a PACS are eligible for a civil partnership in the UK: PACS is specifically listed in the Civil Partnership Act 2004.

Two people who can register a PACS in France may not be able to register a civil partnership in the UK: PACS is open to mixed-sex couples, who are not eligible for civil partnership, and also to close relatives who may be living together – two sisters, or an aunt and a nephew, could register a PACS, but their PACS would not be recognised as a civil partnership.

Post by **John** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:38 pm

I am really not sure if the PACS issued in London will be valid

There is no doubt in my mind it would be valid under French law, but doubt it would be recognised as a Civil Partnership in the UK.

Whereas a French-registered ... happened in France .... PACS between a same-sex couple would be recognised by the UK.

christoff · Post by **christoff** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:30 pm

My brasilian partner just got his permanent residency application approved by HO (EEA4) we provided them with an original of our French Pacs signed in the French Consulat in London in 2001. My partner had as well a bad immigration history, overstayed 7 years.
Chris

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:15 pm

Isnt that a bit strange?

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary

The instructions on page 11 clearly state that any marriage that take place in a foreign embassy in UK will be refused as the couple will not be considered legally married.

Post by **John** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:29 pm

Docterror, I think it is possible that the application was granted on the basis not of a recognised foreign Civil Partnership, but on the basis of the two of them being an unmarried couple.

It is very clear that the two of them have lived together for in excess of two years.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:42 pm

Exactly what I thought would have happened. Which also means the suggestion to the original poster that they can register their CP in the French Consulate and still pull off an EEA application would be misleading to any other reader. Since erasmus plans on getting the PACS done in Paris anyway, it shouldnt be a problem for him.

erasmus · Post by **erasmus** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:20 pm

Gosh, thanks for letting me know about this. In fact we were planning to the PACS from the French Consulate in London, now I am a bit confused....must I register it in Paris? Or shall I better pay and get a CoA for CP in this country?

What would you suggest???

Thanks again...

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:47 am

Making an EEA application solely based on a PACS from the French Consulate is not a guaranteed path to successful application as you can clearly see that the HO does not see them as being valid. With that being the case, chances are that your case will be decided on the basis of the strength of your relationship as an Unmarried Partner of an EEA national.

Also remember that Unmarried Partners are considered 'extended family members' and not as 'family members'... Why is this important? Because your EEA family member is a student and only family members are given the right to reside with them after the initial 3 months while extended family members are not.

I am not familiar with the procedures and documents needed for the process of registering a PACS in France and hence will not be able to make a suggestion as to whether it is easier for you to do so as opposed to registering a CP here in England. Thats a decision you will have to weigh up by yourself. As long as its not a PACS from the French Consulate, you should be fine.

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Non-EEA & EEA Civil Partner

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