Very complicated question -job creation requirement

bkallday · Post by **bkallday** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:55 am

Dear All,

I am so happy to have found this site, because I am very confused...

In March 2012 I came to the UK as a visitor, and registered a new company as a Director (with one other director as a partner.

In May 2012, I invested all the funds 200K into the company account.

In June 2012, We hired 3 employees into the company.

In September 2012, I finally got around back to home country and made the tier 1 application and was accepted.

Now, for around 1 year, I have had 3 employees and hopefully, for two more years to come, which would mean 9 worker years, and with one extra in the last year, it will be 10.

But I am worried because people are telling me that those jobs have to be created AFTER i got my visa, not after I registered the company and invested the funds.

If this is the case, then I am in big trouble because 3 posts are already there and I am not able to create more posts on top of it, and everything is running already...

Please help!!!

Entrepreneur9 · Post by **Entrepreneur9** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:59 pm

Why do you think you are in a big trouble? You should be proud of yourself that you have given so much to the economy.

The requirement is to create 2 jobs not 10 as you say. If you satisfy the requirement of creating 2 jobs then you can apply for 2 years of extension and then ILR and finally citizenship.

However if you create 10 jobs then you can apply for ILR straight away after 3 years.

I am not sure about job creation before or after the visa

But if you cannot satisfy the 2nd option then go with the 1st, it will take 2 years extra but you are on a safer side so dont worry.

bkallday wrote:Dear All,

I am so happy to have found this site, because I am very confused...

In March 2012 I came to the UK as a visitor, and registered a new company as a Director (with one other director as a partner.

In May 2012, I invested all the funds 200K into the company account.

In June 2012, We hired 3 employees into the company.

In September 2012, I finally got around back to home country and made the tier 1 application and was accepted.

Now, for around 1 year, I have had 3 employees and hopefully, for two more years to come, which would mean 9 worker years, and with one extra in the last year, it will be 10.

But I am worried because people are telling me that those jobs have to be created AFTER i got my visa, not after I registered the company and invested the funds.

If this is the case, then I am in big trouble because 3 posts are already there and I am not able to create more posts on top of it, and everything is running already...

Please help!!!

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:17 pm

Yes u r right job creation from the time u have granted visa, same if u taken over a business any employee already working for company will not be counted towards job creation.

educators · Post by **educators** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:35 pm

bkallday wrote:Dear All,

I am so happy to have found this site, because I am very confused...

In March 2012 I came to the UK as a visitor, and registered a new company as a Director (with one other director as a partner.

In May 2012, I invested all the funds 200K into the company account.

In June 2012, We hired 3 employees into the company.

In September 2012, I finally got around back to home country and made the tier 1 application and was accepted.

Now, for around 1 year, I have had 3 employees and hopefully, for two more years to come, which would mean 9 worker years, and with one extra in the last year, it will be 10.

But I am worried because people are telling me that those jobs have to be created AFTER i got my visa, not after I registered the company and invested the funds.

If this is the case, then I am in big trouble because 3 posts are already there and I am not able to create more posts on top of it, and everything is running already...

Please help!!!

You need to keep this in mind that 2 jobs or 10 jobs are required for the period of 12 months only. So if you can employ 5 workers for 2 years now which means 2 more workers than your current 3 staff members for 2 years then you fulfill the requirement of creating 10 jobs and you can apply for faster settlement directly after 3 years. No need for extension.

bkallday · Post by **bkallday** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:27 am

thank you educators and entrepreneur for your support -

rehan - how sure are you about this?

acutally the jobs were a result of my contribution - which is my investment and me registering the company---

so what if it was done a few months before the visa was granted...what do you think?

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:35 am

I agree with entrepreneur and educators in regards to job existence for 12 months but any existing employment won't be consider towards it.

I m sure this information is available in policy guidance too.

Regards

bkallday wrote:thank you educators and entrepreneur for your support -

rehan - how sure are you about this?

acutally the jobs were a result of my contribution - which is my investment and me registering the company--

so what if it was done a few months before the visa was granted...what do you think?

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:43 am

129. You must supply evidence to prove you have created no less than two new full-time posts, and provide the following documents for each worker as evidence. (If the business employed workers before you joined it, we will also require the extra documents detailed in the ‘Extra documents needed if you took over or joined an existing business’ section below):

Assessing the date that you joined the business
137. You can only use employment created when you were engaged in the business. If you joined an existing company as a Director you may only submit hours of employment created after you joined the company

Source: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... pdf#page29

Hope this is of some help

Regards

bkallday · Post by **bkallday** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:11 am

Dear Rehan

Thank you for getting back to me

Actually i did not join the business - i created the business as a director - and actually - the jobs were created after i was a director....

And then I hired the employees - after investing the funds and setting up the business - WHILE i was in the UK, but unfortunately before getting my visa stamped.

I am sure this might have to goto appeal - yes educator says now hire two more people on top of the three - just to get to extension route - this is going to cost much in terms of tax and I dont any more people and cant find them - maybe they will just count the 3 employees terms from the start of my visa date not before? The guidance is not so clear on this - do you see my point?

It can be argued that the jobs were created as a result of my contribution (both investment) and (effort) although effort before getting stamped. Being here as a visitor before stamping - its not illegal to work towards setting u the business - its even expected - its just illegal to take up employement....

Do you agree with me a bit?!

bkallday · Post by **bkallday** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:13 am

The key thing in both 129 and 137 that you mentioned is "joining the comapany"

Does this mean joining the company as a director - or actually getting the visa stamped....

Am i getting this all wrong - -- a bit worried here

bkallday · Post by **bkallday** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:14 am

I also have proof that I was in the UK at the time the three were hired and can bring them in to say I interviewed them...

Maybe goes to appeal no?

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:34 am

I don't know what to say this is all getting so complicated .... Visit visa and setting business I guess it's call for another trouble .... Anyway whatever u do play safe that's all I can say.

If u can prove that u were director of business etc a the time of recruitment than it might work but I m not sure if u can do this while u r here on visit.

Regards

educators · Post by **educators** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:39 am

bkallday wrote:I also have proof that I was in the UK at the time the three were hired and can bring them in to say I interviewed them...

Maybe goes to appeal no?

If you got the visa based on money already invested in UK then I see no reason for UKBA to not accept your created employment from the beginning. If you can prove them that these jobs were created after you setup your own business then it should be fine for you.

educators · Post by **educators** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:43 am

rehan01 wrote:I don't know what to say this is all getting so complicated .... Visit visa and setting business I guess it's call for another trouble .... Anyway whatever u do play safe that's all I can say.

If u can prove that u were director of business etc a the time of recruitment than it might work but I m not sure if u can do this while u r here on visit.

Regards

Anyone from any part of the world can form a company in UK and become its director and shareholder....you do not need any immigration status to do this. The only restriction for the purpose of immigration is employment.

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:59 am

Yes anyone from any part of the world can form a company in UK without breaching immigration rules ...... On general visit visa u cannot do this.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... uirements/

If u want to register a company or do business in uk etc than u need to apply for business visitor visa or if u want to come as tier 1 entrepreneur than u can apply for prospective entrepreneur visa.

Hope this help

Regards

Anyone from any part of the world can form a company in UK and become its director and shareholder....you do not need any immigration status to do this. The only restriction for the purpose of immigration is employment.

bkallday · Post by **bkallday** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:56 am

Dear All,

Thank you for providing your input.

I am going to speak to a solicitor and see what he says and update you.

Rehan, Point well made - business visitor visa is required - however as US citizen, I dont think there is a separate application....just an entry stamp at airport....

To be continued...

Lola22 · Post by **Lola22** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:35 pm

You must show the evidence of employment of two staff after you have joined the company as a director. Any employment of staff before you became a director will not be counted.

In this case, the staff was employed after he become a director, so the employment of the staff should be counted.

A person with any type of visa can be a director of a company so far that person is in the country at the stage of registration due to various organisational policy requirement. (Seeing the director in person and taking of signature e.t.c).

In otherwords, you can decide to appoint someone who resides outside UK as a director but you will face lots of challenges and delays when you need to do some vital registrations or changing vital document.

If bkallday employed the staff after he became a director of the company and got his Tier 1 visa on the same company then, he should be fine.

Bkallday please, let know if your solicitor has a different view.

When you speak to yr solicitor make sure he knows the category well aleast 80%. You can try and ask him questions on what you already know and listen well, so that you do not end up with a solicitor that needs only yr money.

Good luck.

Lola22 · Post by **Lola22** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:12 pm

I just want to make reference to what Rehan01 wrote Business visitor visa and I agree with him also.

Business visitor or Tier 1 visa would have been the best option and that is what you decided to do. You went back to your country and applied and got the tier 1 visa. If you submitted any document relating to this company during your Tier 1 visa application then, that will be great.

Just has Entrepreneur9 mentioned, you should not be troubled, you have achieved a great thing and you are on a safe ground. You have got great options with nothing to lose. Try and apply, if your application is refused appeal thru a well grounded solicitor. If not then go for 2years extension.

Good luck.

Lola22 · Post by **Lola22** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:17 pm

I just want to make reference to what Rehan01 wrote on Business visitor visa and I agree with him also.

Business visitor or Tier 1 visa would have been the best option and that is what you decided to do. You went back to your country and applied and got the Tier 1 visa. If you submitted any document relating to this company during your Tier 1 visa application then, that will be great.

Just has Entrepreneur9 mentioned, you should not be troubled, you have achieved a great thing and you are on a safe ground. You have got great options with nothing to lose. Try and apply for ILR, if your application is refused appeal thru a well grounded solicitor because you employed the staff after you became a director of your company. If not, then go for 2years extension.

Good luck.

bkallday · Post by **bkallday** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:38 am

dear lola

thank you for your input...

i totally agree with you....the guidance is not crystal clear on this and there is a reason - it really depends on a case by case basis....so what would the home office want me to do?? do they want me to wait go back and get my tier 1 and then they lose 3 months of employment for 3 people which is nine months of economy benefit and payroll tax revenues...no! they want me to start...i have faith in this countries laws which operation on a common sensical basis and thats why i am here....that is precisely why the guidance is unclear on this matter...they can see that i am running a legitimate business and have legitimate employees....

regarding solicitor-- that is EXACTLY what i have been planning to do...great idea...many crooks out there...

regarding the red tape you meant about the overseas director...we did expereince this!!! no one would give us a bank account as I did not have my tier 1 yet but eventually we got it....

in regards to the time counted...i am hoping that on appeal they will count the three employees as the three employees WERE as a result of my contribution...they will however not count any time before my landing and stamping but hopefully would count from that time onwards.....

in my quest for the 10 years employement i need, i am going to arrange it so that i have an overlap with 4 employees at a time so i can at least guarantee the extension route at the end...but hoping that the accelerated will go through!!!

if you know any good solicitors, please let me know...

solomondid · Post by **solomondid** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:06 am

As far as I understand all employment can be proved even in third year of your present stay. terminate employees and hire them back when its beginning of the third year, that would suffice all the requirements. I think there's no harm in this consult your legal adviser or the accountant.[/i]

Darvesh · Post by **Darvesh** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:37 pm

agree with solomondid...u can fire ppl and can re hire them when ur business need it.

how do the ukba knows that no.of ppl working for that business b4 u took over?
u can buy a business altogether and re-hire ppl under new management. wudnt be a problem.

however when u join a business then u need to add 2 more jobs in it. corect me if im wrong.

grreg · Post by **grreg** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:16 am

Be careful that all the people you have employed are SETTLED before you go counting them. See the definition here http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/glossary?letter=S

That's a trap that could catch people!

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Very complicated question -job creation requirement

Very complicated question -job creation requirement

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