Secondment & Surinder Singh

[LankanFunkin]

Hello,

Just wanted to check if anyone has had any experience using the Surinder Singh route for a spouse of dependent while being seconded to another EU country.

I know the "ideal" scenario is having a local job, but can I still be considered as exercising my treaty rights if I'm being seconded?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

This is a very interesting question.

Have you read regulation 9 of the regulations?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

while being seconded to another EU country.

When you say "seconded" what do you mean?

For how long? What will be your technical employment situation? Where will you be paid from?

[LankanFunkin]

@Directive - definition of secondment for this purpose would be that my employer may want to relocate me to another EU member state. For this they would issue relevant documentation (i.e. letter stating the business need, I have been chosen, etc), and I would still remain on my existing contract (i.e. employee of the London office). Salary payments would come from the UK headquarters, and not the EU member state affiliate. Salary will also be paid into my UK bank account. However, if there is any double taxation that arises, the company will help with all the filings and do the needful for local tax payments.

The company may be working with me on the duration of this secondment, and I have suggested a ball-park period of 6 months

I found on the HMRC site details of the ECJ's very loose definition of a "worker" as per Article 39:
- undertakes genuine and effective work;
- under the direction of someone else;
- for which he is paid.
Source: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cbtmanual/cbtm10070.htm

It doesnt really delve into the details of secondment...

@EUsmile - Thanks for that document. Thats just the route I am hoping to pursue. However, regulation 9 doesn't really go into a whole lot of detail as to what's required to be considered - i.e. what is required to qualify a UK citizen living in a member state as an EEA citizen. Consensus on this forum seems to be 6 months, and others have also suggested making sure the relative gets their residence permit for the EU member state wont hurt the case either when returning to the UK.

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So, just to be clear: You would be seconded to, e.g. Spain, and do Spanish related work for your employer?

It is an interesting question whether this would count or not.

[LankanFunkin]

@Directive - Yes that is correct. There will be business justification to be relocated for that 4 to 6 months.

It sounds like this is a big grey area?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

It is a grey area for me.

It is pretty clear if you take a job in France for a French firm that you are working in a host member state.

If you are paid for a British firm like this, then it is less clearcut.

I suspect it should not be a problem, but you need to keep very careful record/proof of everything related to this. Also should read the Carpenter ECJ case and see what you take away from that. http://www.eucaselaw.info/mary-carpenter-2002/

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

@Directive - Yes that is correct. There will be business justification to be relocated for that 4 to 6 months.

It sounds like this is a big grey area?

I presume you will need to apply for a Spanish residence certificate and your spouse a residence card. (required if resident > 3 months). For this you will need to demonstrate that you are a worker, which I thing you can easily do, being employed in Spain, albeit seconded there.

[dtm1]

@Directive - Yes that is correct. There will be business justification to be relocated for that 4 to 6 months.

It sounds like this is a big grey area?

LankanFunkin : I am ina similar situation where I am debating if I should pursue the expat route (where UK host company pays from UK payroll into UK bank account) or if I should pursue option to move my contract to our Dutch office.

The reason for swaying towards the latter is because in this case I would be able to request for a letter from my employer confirming employment in the EU working for their Dutch office - i.e. an EU employment contract of some form . But indeed this seems to be a grey area and very little about this appears to have been discussed in here.

I would be interested to know if you have made any further findings on this?

[FP007]

Hi Guys,

These old posts implement on me 100%, does any one know the outcome of the cases?

[CR001]

Hi Guys,

These old posts implement on me 100%, does any one know the outcome of the cases?

Please refrain from digging up old posts (3 years old) as it clutters the forum of current queries. The OP in this topic last logged into the forum in Oct 2013.

If you have specific questions, start your own topic.