My Experience at Hearing Today...

[arsi_315]

Finally today was my hearing and i am still not sure how it went. My hearing was suppose to start at 10 am so i arrived early around 9 am. Me and my barrister had a little chat about what was the issue and how to address it. While we were waiting for our judge, my barrister went to HO representative and he said that i will be raising new issues. I was very furious when i heard that from my barrister.

For all those who are wondering that why my application was refused: The objection was only that i can not access my partners fund and vice versa so we need to have a bank letter saying that etc etc.

Now when the judge arrived my barrister told her that bank doesnt issue this kind of letter and HO representative was like ok whatever i dont care about this issue now. I found a new issue today looking at your bundle that you guys are not running any business all the clients transactions are not genuine . (Even though we have provided the receipt) The point is that nothing was even discussed about the objection point. He raised new points which my barrister was unable to coop with because he was only prepared for the reason based on my rejection and my lawyer didnt give him all the documents based on other points. Therefore he told me that do not agree to the new points because we will only fight based on the objection raised. Thats why even i didnt say anything at all. No questions were asked from me. I was just sitting there and my barrister was going on and on based on the objection point only. HO representative was raising new points therefore the judge was very confused and in the end she said that I will not take any decision yet i will let adjourn my decision and let you know after few days.

Now I am really confused because judge did ask for the other points in written from HO representative and several copies were made so my barrister would also get them. Does this means that she will look into those points? I am really upset at HO representative because he was off topic all the time and was saying that this is a smoke screen , there is no business going on.

Details for other members
Application submitted: 13 Feb 2013
Rejection: Somewhere in MAY
Hearing: Today (29 August 2013)
Decision: Within 10 Days from ^^

Currently I am really worried.. they are just wasting time i guess..
If any other questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Regards

[RizKCB]

My friend's hearing was today at 10:00 York House. I attended his hearing as a visitor for my experience. Same was here; It was looking like HO rep was considering the whole case today and they never looked on it before.

My friends refusal was:
Not mentioned services in details.
Some invoices were interpreted wrongly by HO.

While HO rep didnt ask anything on refusal rather argued on Third party's affidavit, funding and contract details issue.

At the end judge didnt give any decision and looked confused and overwhelmed by lot of facts. He just ended with saying to get decision within 2-4 weeks. The end of discussion was on how to claim 75 points. Judge was looking clear on first 25 points but confused on other 25+25 about availability and disposable factors of fund. Because on one of letter issued from Paki solicitor didnt had License/Registration number on the letter head.

I was personally surprised, how refusal reasons came to the end discussion of availability of funds.

Unfortunately barrister/solicitor of my friend was not looking that much professional. Most of the questions were answered by my friend. At one point even my friend said 'What kind of silly question are raised by HO rep today'. On which Judge said him not to use such comments. Anyway lets see.

[shah4404]

Very true we got refusal on my client base cause he was the client of my solicitor they are in very doubt about contract but we have launch appeal can you plz tell us when did you make an appeal thanks

[arsi_315]

Very true we got refusal on my client base cause he was the client of my solicitor they are in very doubt about contract but we have launch appeal can you plz tell us when did you make an appeal thanks

The appeal was made within 14 days of rejection, It was starting of the june.


@RizKCB
Actually If the judge decides in favor of HO rep and ask me to provide proof of that the business is running / genuine or ask for auditing my accounts then i will withdraw my application. To hell with this visa :/
I m sick of UKBA for wasting my life, precious time and money for nothing... Really upset.. However i wish everyone else best of luck and will pray for you guys..

[RizKCB]

I can understand what you mean. I hope that you and my friend will get visa. At the same time I would strongly suggest other fellows to get a strong grip and logical answers on their cases and keep pushing their solicitors/barristers to prepare their case.

For example:
In the hearing I attended; HO rep started by asking my friend, what is the difference between Invoice and Receipt? She also emphasized that in response of your appeal the statement you submitted to home office; do not have anything to show your business activities and HO believes that for a PSW visa holder, section 3(C) fully gives right to the applicant to exercise previous visa conditions and work on the business.

[rsrameshsunil]

If your representative has stressed the point that HO rep is raising new issues that are completely out of scope, then It is highly likely that judge will give the judgement in your favour. But it needs to be stressed during the hearing very clearly. If that has happend, then it is quite clear that you will win the case. However it is still your responsibility to answer all the questions raised by HO during hearing. If HO rep spot something very serious in your application and if they prove infront of your judge then there is also chances that judge could consider you as bogus applicant and may dismiss your appeal on other grounds.

But also remember something, if HO has raised new serious issues like false documentation or deception etc during your hearing, Judge may still allow the appeal as it is out of scope and you will win the case. However, all the points raised by HO rep during hearing gets recorded by him/her and will be sent to the appeal processing unit. Which means that even if your appeal is allowed, UKBA has another chance to refuse you again based on these new points when they make the second decision.

Therefore its better to answer and clear all the incorrect accusations HO makes on you during the hearing even if its off-topic and not based on the reasons of refusal.

[arsi_315]

If your representative has stressed the point that HO rep is raising new issues that are completely out of scope, then It is highly likely that judge will give the judgement in your favour. But it needs to be stressed during the hearing very clearly. If that has happend, then it is quite clear that you will win the case. However it is still your responsibility to answer all the questions raised by HO during hearing. If HO rep spot something very serious in your application and if they prove infront of your judge then there is also chances that judge could consider you as bogus applicant and may dismiss your appeal on other grounds.

But also remember something, if HO has raised new serious issues like false documentation or deception etc during your hearing, Judge may still allow the appeal as it is out of scope and you will win the case. However, all the points raised by HO rep during hearing gets recorded by him/her and will be sent to the appeal processing unit. Which means that even if your appeal is allowed, UKBA has another chance to refuse you again based on these new points when they make the second decision.

Therefore its better to answer and clear all the incorrect accusations HO makes on you during the hearing even if its off-topic and not based on the reasons of refusal.

It means either way i loose :/
Does anyone know how long does it takes to withdraw my application?

[arsi_315]

Is it possible if i win this case and get a rejection second time? is it happened to anyone else ?

[babylondoner]

Stop stressing and pray/hope for the best.

[sabuj263]

Always hope for good. This is not end of the world. I know stressful situation but be brave until decision and then take action according to.

[Mr Legal]

If your representative has stressed the point that HO rep is raising new issues that are completely out of scope, then It is highly likely that judge will give the judgement in your favour. But it needs to be stressed during the hearing very clearly. If that has happend, then it is quite clear that you will win the case. However it is still your responsibility to answer all the questions raised by HO during hearing. If HO rep spot something very serious in your application and if they prove infront of your judge then there is also chances that judge could consider you as bogus applicant and may dismiss your appeal on other grounds.

But also remember something, if HO has raised new serious issues like false documentation or deception etc during your hearing, Judge may still allow the appeal as it is out of scope and you will win the case. However, all the points raised by HO rep during hearing gets recorded by him/her and will be sent to the appeal processing unit. Which means that even if your appeal is allowed, UKBA has another chance to refuse you again based on these new points when they make the second decision.

Therefore its better to answer and clear all the incorrect accusations HO makes on you during the hearing even if its off-topic and not based on the reasons of refusal.

Agreed because the appellant has knocked at the tribunal's door against the refusal's reasons and the HO is there to defend those reasons.The appellant must be clear in his arguments to convince the tribunal against the original refusal not the issues raised by HO during hearing.I am sure that the tribunal may not consider the new issues made at hearing in either way and if it is the case for dismissal of appeal,he has a good chance to win the appeal in upper tribunal because all is dealt with iin the tribunal before the judge to hear and decide is about the basic and original HO reasons.

[RizKCB]

How to confirm on hearing date or before it; the person who is going to be a barrister is a genuine barrister or just pretending to be?

How the tribunal services on the hearing date confirm that the person who will act on behalf of the client is a barrister?

It is doubtful. Isnt it? OR Am I wrong to raise this issue?

[business genius]

hi Rizkcb
You are right that barrister is genuine or not because solicitor never ever give the contact and we only meet him/her in the tribunal before hearing and at that time you cant do anything.
I was worried when my hearing because solicitor has not given me any details of barrister and so many reasons that barristors are busy in court so they cant attend client phone and bla bla.
But luckily one good thing I knew the solicitor to whom I have given my case and I discussed him before finalization of barrister because they outsource them on the basis of case complexity and fee payment.And my refusal reason was also simple so was not the problem for him
But very tricky to select Barristor.Now a days every tom and harry are claiming to be barrister .

[RizKCB]

@business genius

Absolutely right. Actually when giving the case to a solicitor, they ask for fee decided over the Case Preparation + For Barrister on Hearing. But Its my personal observation that some solicitors do not fulfill their commitments to grab a larger portion of money from the fee. Specially for First Tribunal where Barrister is not necessarily required and appellant may act himself before judge about the case.

[Mr Legal]

How to confirm on hearing date or before it; the person who is going to be a barrister is a genuine barrister or just pretending to be?

How the tribunal services on the hearing date confirm that the person who will act on behalf of the client is a barrister?

It is doubtful. Isnt it? OR Am I wrong to raise this issue?

Disagreed because mere speaking before the tribunal is not a confirmation of a person to be a solicitor or barrister. There is a clear difference between an applicant who acts on his own and a solicitor or barrister who represents a client before the court. I think an applicant is in hot water and he cannot reach to an identity of a genuine solicitor or barrister while they are presenting in the court. However, the tribunal judge notes his professional attitude and this very difficult at least in this legal profession for someone to pretend himself as a solicitor/barrister and that before the court.Representing a case before the court within the legal terms is not a piece of cake for some non-legal personality how smart is he.

There is a reported case in which an applicant's friend appeared before the tribunal pretending to be her solicitor based in wales,but when he started on the case,the tribunal noticed his unprofessional attitude and presentation and thus stopped him and asked him to call your law society to fax your enrolment /membership record as solicitor.He ran away from the premises of the court and later the applicant disclosed it to the tribunal that he was not a solicitor but my friend.

So don't worry for anyone but just look for a hardworking one to look around your case seriously.

[RizKCB]

Two times my two different friends appeared in First Tribunal themselves and won the appeals for their dependents' visa. In first tribunal, one can appear himself. All it depends how complex and critical is the case to hire professionals.

In a recent hearing of my friend which i attended myself, I observed while sitting outside the hearing rooms, a tribunal clerk came to a lady and asked her name and about her representative xyz solicitors. She replied that no representative will come and she will argue herself. The clerk simply cut through the name of xyz solicitor on a paper in his hands and said her OK. I dont know her case.

Secondly pretending to be a barrister in the court room might be confusing and difficult but not impossible. And literally I am not thinking to do anything like that, I watch movies but not a good actor.

[Mr Legal]

Two times my two different friends appeared in First Tribunal themselves and won the appeals for their dependents' visa. In first tribunal, one can appear himself. All it depends how complex and critical is the case to hire professionals.

In a recent hearing of my friend which i attended myself, I observed while sitting outside the hearing rooms, a tribunal clerk came to a lady and asked her name and about her representative xyz solicitors. She replied that no representative will come and she will argue herself. The clerk simply cut through the name of xyz solicitor on a paper in his hands and said her OK. I dont know her case.

Secondly pretending to be a barrister in the court room might be confusing and difficult but not impossible. And literally I am not thinking to do anything like that, I watch movies but not a good actor.

That's true.

[arsi_315]

As Promised that I will update you guys soon.

Today after 12 days I got my Decision, The judge has decided in my favor and I have won the case. Not only that but i have been given a refund of £140.

I have a question @business genius
I believe you were also in a similar situation, can you please tell me that after how many days did you get your documents back after winning the case? If its more than a month then i am afraid i will have to withdraw my application. I have some emergency and need to go back to my country as soon as possible. It really pains me that after winning the case after all that hard work and lots of money i will be withdrawing the case
It will really help me if you can let me know the duration how long they take to send you documents back after winning the case.

@Everyone, Is there a chance that after winning a case Home office can reject my visa again at some other point?

[babylondoner]

As Promised that I will update you guys soon.

Today after 12 days I got my Decision, The judge has decided in my favor and I have won the case. Not only that but i have been given a refund of £140.

I have a question @business genius
I believe you were also in a similar situation, can you please tell me that after how many days did you get your documents back after winning the case? If its more than a month then i am afraid i will have to withdraw my application. I have some emergency and need to go back to my country as soon as possible. It really pains me that after winning the case after all that hard work and lots of money i will be withdrawing the case
It will really help me if you can let me know the duration how long they take to send you documents back after winning the case.

@Everyone, Is there a chance that after winning a case Home office can reject my visa again at some other point?

CONGRATULATIONS!

this is the season of good news.

HO has 5days to appeal the judgement (which they most likely won't). after the 5days lapses, just sit down, relax and wait for the postman to knock on your door with your documents and BRP

[TSAZ]

As Promised that I will update you guys soon.

Today after 12 days I got my Decision, The judge has decided in my favor and I have won the case. Not only that but i have been given a refund of £140.

I have a question @business genius
I believe you were also in a similar situation, can you please tell me that after how many days did you get your documents back after winning the case? If its more than a month then i am afraid i will have to withdraw my application. I have some emergency and need to go back to my country as soon as possible. It really pains me that after winning the case after all that hard work and lots of money i will be withdrawing the case
It will really help me if you can let me know the duration how long they take to send you documents back after winning the case.

@Everyone, Is there a chance that after winning a case Home office can reject my visa again at some other point?

Hello Arsi,
many congrates on your sucess.
you will get your doc and BRP in few weeks inshallah.
i had my hearing on 4th september on same refusal as was yours.
now after your deceion i am hopefull i will win as well inshallah.
hope the best for you in future.

[nayeem1506]

Hello guys
Hope u all doing well. Just to share an experience of court hearing n result, it might help applicants in future.

Will give the info about two cases. One is mine n my friend second is my brother n his business partner. Will call my case as case 1 n my brother's as case 2.
Not solicitor was same for both cases.

Case 2 was applies in Oct 4th 2012 n case 1 was in Jan 21st 2013. Both was rescued in may last week with same reasons n no points awarded in appendix A consist of 75 points.
1. No access to £50000 (my team mate's 90 days bank statement was not accepted)
2. No name in advertisement
3. No details of services providing was mention in contract papers.
4. Funds not in FSA Regulated authority
5. Funds not disposable in UK.

Feel like laugh laud here. Any way

Case 1 details. (Applied on 21st Jan 2013)

1. Funds were available in two different ac's n letter of authorisations was given after attested n signed by third solicitors as per HO requirement.

My team mate abstain the bank statement from a local branch after begging a lot as he didn't received in post n cos of online banking access bank stop sending the paper statement n when we pop in bank these chores idiots does not cope n help us, this is insane they only help those customers where they get commission n benefits but avoid the issues like we had.

2. Advertisement was give in yell.com with business name n all contact details but no name was displayed. (Solicitor posted the add, once refused he said name was give but yell.com didn't display the name haha idiot later I changed it).

3. I submitted the contract of 14 pages with each n every detailed lined out by my clint n all the services my company providing.

4 n 5. Funds were in Santander n Nat-west ac both FSA regulated n funds were in UK so how does it make sense that fund were not disposable in UK.

Case 2 details. ( applied on 4th Oct 2012)

1. Funds were available in joints ac n letter of authorisation was give after
attested n signed by third solicitors as per HO requirement.

Rest of all the points were same explained for case 2 as my case 1 apart from a different detailed contract of 26 pages was submitted.

Appealed against the HO Refusal with in 10 days n Hearing date was give quite earlier on 21st August as we were expecting nov or jan.

Case 1 hearing was in London n case 2 was in Cardiff.

We went quite early n discussed with my barrister he asked us everything like.
How long u been in UK
How much rent altogether u paid since arrived (amount xxx)
How much tuition fee u paid since u arrived in UK ( amount xxx)
R u paying ur self from ur company if not then how u maintaining ur expenses( had some savings)
Can u operate ur business from overseas (never had a prospects of this)
What should u do if ur business fails (try in different country)
Do u still have the funds (statement was provided)
When did u start ur company (said the corporation date)
N many more questions just to get n idea for his preparation n he asked me those questions In front of judge for which our answers were best suited n he advised us to keep answers simple clear n short n avoid any arguments with anyone n he even said don't discuss anything when u both coming in.

Hearing time was 10. By 1130 my brothers hearing was done n had tough session cos their HO representative was aggressive n so prepared n known for maximum deportation I know the name but won't add it. He was harsh on them n said u guys r abusing the tier 1 law ur not entrepreneur but just an employees ur yourself working on this contract n getting paid £200 a Day but my brothers mate defend smartly by we directors designs the proto type software n layouts n my team goes to clients site to implement the project.

Mine was long waited as there was 2 deportation cases were going on before me so had to wait until 2. Finally we been called n as I was a main applicant they ask my team mate to wait out for a call, they asked me plenty of questions all three of them. HO rep asked me how did u get the money n r u working on this contract n since how long u operating the company.

Later my team mate was called n asked the same questions n HO Rep was nailing his nerve down by asking plenty of questions n some point he was quite hesitating. Mr judge was quite ok with the statement provided by bank for maintenance funds of my mate n he asked how much money n for how many days they need to show. Surprise was HO rep said he is not sure he wasn't much prepared n he annoyed the judge for a bit then my barrister told with reference it is £900 for 90 days. Any way got to an end after a long 1 hour n 10 min session. Judge said he will let the decision know with in 10 working days.

Results
Case 2 was accepted with in 4 days n result sent to solicitor. Was accepted on positive point of contributing to UK economy as they were engaged in business n earned £35000 paid £7000 vat n some corporate tax n invested only £5000 so far in 10 months as they r IT gigs. His barrister said if they can invest 5k n earn 35k the. Imagine if they invest 50k what would be the profit n turnover.

Case 1 was declares on 30 August. Accepted on human rights grounds n fees wasn't awarded by judge. There were many questions asked by judge like y u want to do business in UK I said I'm here for 8 years now n I did my education here n i researched for consultant business, I'm quite fascinate towards the life style n UK will give lot of opportunities as compare to another country n I want to be a successful entrepreneur n want to hire potential people to contribute to my organisation u to contribute in economy.

Hence the experience was quite like harassing since applied till today cos after getting the court decision for both cases the HO has appealed in upper tribunal agains the first tribunal Decision in case 2 n case 1 Which is mine waiting what can happen next ohhhh may Allah SWT help us. My brother waiting for more update from solicitor. Let see what happen.

[Extension2013]

Dear nayeem1506

Hello: I really appreciate your efforts and hard work shown in the forum by presenting your cases in detail. Thank you very much. You should not be worried about and Allah Almighty will help you out in the upper tribunal as done in the first tier tribunal. Just Pray Allah and hope for the best and inshallah,everything will go well with you.

Can you please share the grounds on which the tribunal agreed to approve your case under Human rights article 8.if you can copy and paste it by removing your personal all detail, will highly be appreciated.

[babylondoner]

@ nayeem1506

very detailed write up. thank you.

can you please tell us the HO's grounds for filing an appeal in the upper tribunal for CASE 2?

[Gladiator21]

@nayeem1506 we really appreciate sharing your experience here with us and stress you endured, Almighty is with you..Good Luck

[Gladiator21]

nayeem1506 we really appreciate sharing your experience here with us and stressed you endured, Almighty is with you..Good Luck