EEA And British Citizenship

[jbarlow]

Hi all.
I have read some discussions here and you guys are doing a great job. Its not cheap what you are offering for free here.

Anyways,
I am non EEA citizen (from india.) Came to UK on 10th of september 2004 on a two and a half year student visa. I was living with my girl friend since april 2005. Later on we got married in august 2006. My wife is a greek(and australian citizen.) She has dual nationalities. She has been in UK for the last 7~8 years. She got EEA1 in september 2006 and i applied for EEA2 at the end of september 2006. (i am still waiting for the return of our passports.)
My question is: how long will it take me to get british citizenship?

Cheers!

[JAJ]

I am non EEA citizen (from india.) Came to UK on 10th of september 2004 on a two and a half year student visa. I was living with my girl friend since april 2005. Later on we got married in august 2006. My wife is a greek(and australian citizen.) She has dual nationalities. She has been in UK for the last 7~8 years. She got EEA1 in september 2006 and i applied for EEA2 at the end of september 2006. (i am still waiting for the return of our passports.)
My question is: how long will it take me to get british citizenship?

Why did she fill in EEA1, not EEA3, if she had already been in the UK for 5 years?

As long as your wife has been "exercising Treaty rights" for 5 years,she became a Permanent Resident automatically on 30 April 2006. She can apply for British citizenship in May this year.

Does she want to do this? This will determine how quickly you can get British citizenship.

Also - have you any children born in the UK?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

As JAJ says, she automatically gets Permanent Residence after 5 years in the country. The Permanent Residence Card is not required, but is an optional way of documenting that status.

The Home Office have, by law, at most 6 months to process your application for EEA2. If you applied in September and have not had to to submit documentation that you initially forgot, you should already have a decision by now. Any idea why there is a delay?

[jbarlow]

Why did she fill in EEA1, not EEA3, if she had already been in the UK for 5 years?

As long as your wife has been "exercising Treaty rights" for 5 years,she became a Permanent Resident automatically on 30 April 2006. She can apply for British citizenship in May this year.

Does she want to do this? This will determine how quickly you can get British citizenship.

Also - have you any children born in the UK?

actually we didnt know about this law.
i really want to get british citizenship quickly. my wife wants to work in multinational companies and wants to go around the world after her PhD is finished in october 2008. you know what i mean.
we dont have any children.

how smooth the process would be , for her , if she applies for a british citizenship this May. (by the way, why May. why she cant apply earlier.)

second question is: how smooth the process would be , for me, if my wife becomes british citizen and then i go through that route?
will my stay in uk as a student and now on EEA2 will have any value when i will be applying for FLR(M), i guess. (Sorry i dont know how it works if you are married to a british citizen.)

Thanks for the reply by the way.

Cheers!

[jbarlow]

As JAJ says, she automatically gets Permanent Residence after 5 years in the country. The Permanent Residence Card is not required, but is an optional way of documenting that status.

The Home Office have, by law, at most 6 months to process your application for EEA2. If you applied in September and have not had to to submit documentation that you initially forgot, you should already have a decision by now. Any idea why there is a delay?

They received my application on 2nd of october, 2006. Probably they will send back my passport on 2nd of april, 2007.
i never called home office about the delay and they never contacted me since the first and only letter i received which said that they have received my application, it was back in october 2006.

as far as i know, all the papers were complete in my application.

Cheers Dude.

[sakura]

Okay,

I don't know how you will go about cancelling or changing your EEA application, but in terms of applying on the basis of her PR status:

1. She is automatically a permanent resident, and can apply for BC in May. She needs to wait 12 months after PR to apply...
2. Once she does this, you can apply for a spouse visa, which is for 2 years (after passing all required tests, etc, you can apply for ILR)
3. After ILR apply for BC (after passing all tests, etc)

You won't be going anywhere next year, though if she wants to work abroad, it will be 2009-2010 before you can move with her as a BC. Can she wait? Otherwise if she wants to work in another EEA country, you can use the EEA applications.

[Russia]

Hi all.
I have read some discussions here and you guys are doing a great job. Its not cheap what you are offering for free here.

Anyways,
I am non EEA citizen (from india.) Came to UK on 10th of september 2004 on a two and a half year student visa. I was living with my girl friend since april 2005. Later on we got married in august 2006. My wife is a greek(and australian citizen.) She has dual nationalities. She has been in UK for the last 7~8 years. She got EEA1 in september 2006 and i applied for EEA2 at the end of september 2006. (i am still waiting for the return of our passports.)
My question is: how long will it take me to get british citizenship?

Cheers!

OK I'm going to come right out and say it.
Yes you are right, there is plenty of freebie information on this board - thankfully so, for there are many people visiting in real dire straits desperate for help, then one day someone like you comes along - and quite openly says, 'hey guys, i want british citizenship', and for no other reason than to travel the world without inconvenience.
The answer to your question is (i hope) NEVER... what is happening in the UK, with tossers like this exploiting the rules?????
The rest of you who are truly in a desperate position, take note - your chances of a fair immigration system are NIL whilst people like this take advantage.
Makes me sick

[Wanderer]

Hi all.
I have read some discussions here and you guys are doing a great job. Its not cheap what you are offering for free here.

Anyways,
I am non EEA citizen (from india.) Came to UK on 10th of september 2004 on a two and a half year student visa. I was living with my girl friend since april 2005. Later on we got married in august 2006. My wife is a greek(and australian citizen.) She has dual nationalities. She has been in UK for the last 7~8 years. She got EEA1 in september 2006 and i applied for EEA2 at the end of september 2006. (i am still waiting for the return of our passports.)
My question is: how long will it take me to get british citizenship?

Cheers!

OK I'm going to come right out and say it. :(
Yes you are right, there is plenty of freebie information on this board - thankfully so, for there are many people visiting in real dire straits desperate for help, then one day someone like you comes along - and quite openly says, 'hey guys, i want british citizenship', and for no other reason than to travel the world without inconvenience.
The answer to your question is (i hope) NEVER... what is happening in the UK, with tossers like this exploiting the rules?????
The rest of you who are truly in a desperate position, take note - your chances of a fair immigration system are NIL whilst people like this take advantage.
Makes me sick

Well said Russia!

[JAJ]

desperate for help, then one day someone like you comes along - and quite openly says, 'hey guys, i want british citizenship', and for no other reason than to travel the world without inconvenience.
The answer to your question is (i hope) NEVER... what is happening in the UK, with tossers like this exploiting the rules?????

The statutory requirements in the British Nationality Act do not specify a particular "reason" for becoming a British citizen.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

how smooth the process would be , for her , if she applies for a british citizenship this May. (by the way, why May. why she cant apply earlier.)

Applying for British citizenship is relatively straight forward once you have all the requirements. She must have been permanently resident for 5 years, which is why May is the first point she can apply. She will have to fill out the form, and pay quite a large application fee. Note that you will either want to use NCS or (may result in a slower application) send solicitor certified photocopies of your documents if you want to travel outside the UK while the application is being processed.

I am pleased that you are both trying to understand and follow the rules. I wish you well in the long process that you will both follow.

[Russia]

[quote=

I am pleased that you are both trying to understand and follow the rules. I wish you well in the long process that you will both follow.[/quote]

OK, dont get me wrong, I too am happy to a certain extent that at least this individual is following the rules, and yes JAJ understood - but please here is couple who by the time they finish their collection will have 5 passports between them! meanwhile, poor Loozit and co, struggle to gain the opportunity for a VISIT.

There are some mighty big problems with the UK immigration system.

Those of you that have been on this board a long time, moderators and contributors alike - surely you raise your eyebrows at some of these requests? I'm a tolerant guy - but this really pushed me over the edge, especially with the backdrop of reading some real struggles that have been posted on here recently.

[sakura]

Russia,

Why does it matter whether they have 5 passports between themselves? If they received them all legitimately and without lying or cheating, so what? His wife is a Greek national who grew up in Australia (or vice versa) and now living in london...like a million+ other people who are dual- or tri-nationals.

And just because other people are struggling with the immigration system doesn't mean to say they should act coy. Plus I don't recall reading anything 'dodgy' about their plans...many people post questions about the best route (i.e. the fastest route) if they have a few options, because, of course, the rules keep changing, and, with British Citizenship it really is easier to travel/work around...is it a bad thing to ask what is the better option?

[Wanderer]

Russia,

Why does it matter whether they have 5 passports between themselves? If they received them all legitimately and without lying or cheating, so what? His wife is a Greek national who grew up in Australia (or vice versa) and now living in london...like a million+ other people who are dual- or tri-nationals.

And just because other people are struggling with the immigration system doesn't mean to say they should act coy. Plus I don't recall reading anything 'dodgy' about their plans...many people post questions about the best route (i.e. the fastest route) if they have a few options, because, of course, the rules keep changing, and, with British Citizenship it really is easier to travel/work around...is it a bad thing to ask what is the better option?

I'd like to add my opinion on this if I may.

I think we Brits, despite our county's shortcomings, we all hate it here let's face it, complain about the weather, the government, the England Manager, crap cricket performances, but in spite of this we value our Britishness.

We can't understand how people can give up or dilute their nationality for a passport of convenience. I have Irish grandparents, I'm entitled to Irish Citizenship and it would help me and my russian partner WRT EEA permits etc. I;ve mulled long and hard over this, but I'm not Irish, I don't feel Irish, so I'm not doing it. I'm British and stuck with it. Good and bad. Same as football, I'm a Bolton Wanderers fan cos I was born in Bolton, I can't shake it off, I support my team, ok it's easy now but we are 5th in the Prem but it wasn't that long ago we lost 4-0 away to newly elected Scarborough in the old Fourth Division....

My partner is Russian. She'll get ILR sooner or later but she won't give up her Russian passport for BC and I don't blame her despite the hassles it causes for travelling.

I might have an old fashioned outlook on this and remember it's only my opinion but I feel we have a lot of passport pimps around not the OP cos we don't know the full story etc....

[JAJ]

I'd like to add my opinion on this if I may.

I think we Brits, despite our county's shortcomings, we all hate it here let's face it, complain about the weather, the government, the England Manager, crap cricket performances, but in spite of this we value our Britishness.

British citizens from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland don't really care much about the fortunes of the England cricket and football teams.

We can't understand how people can give up or dilute their nationality for a passport of convenience. I have Irish grandparents, I'm entitled to Irish Citizenship and it would help me and my russian partner WRT EEA permits etc. I;ve mulled long and hard over this, but I'm not Irish, I don't feel Irish, so I'm not doing it. I'm British and stuck with it.

What about all the British citizens who become naturalised citizens in the United States, Australia, Canada and New Zealand? Let alone other countries like France or Sweden? Do you believe that their British citizenship ought to be revoked?

[Wanderer]

I'd like to add my opinion on this if I may.

I think we Brits, despite our county's shortcomings, we all hate it here let's face it, complain about the weather, the government, the England Manager, crap cricket performances, but in spite of this we value our Britishness.

British citizens from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland don't really care much about the fortunes of the England cricket and football teams.

We can't understand how people can give up or dilute their nationality for a passport of convenience. I have Irish grandparents, I'm entitled to Irish Citizenship and it would help me and my russian partner WRT EEA permits etc. I;ve mulled long and hard over this, but I'm not Irish, I don't feel Irish, so I'm not doing it. I'm British and stuck with it.

What about all the British citizens who become naturalised citizens in the United States, Australia, Canada and New Zealand? Let alone other countries like France or Sweden? Do you believe that their British citizenship ought to be revoked?

No, because what we're talking about here is prostituting yourself for a passport to travel, all those nationalities you listed have freedom to travel in their own rights....

I'm sorry I can't be arsed anymore. You got me on the England/Britain thing tho, I'll give you that, although Britain/England/Wales/Scotland/Norn Iron it all stands, me mum Welsh, I lived in Scotland for 10 years....

[Docterror]

but please here is couple who by the time they finish their collection will have 5 passports between them!

Its more like 4 passports. The OP will have to surrunder his Indian passport when he gets naturalised as British.

No, because what we're talking about here is prostituting yourself for a passport to travel, all those nationalities you listed have freedom to travel in their own rights....

Wanderer, you will have to elaborate on that comment as I did not really entirely understand what you mean.

I do understand to an extend what you mean about the British valuing their Britishness and not understanding the diluting of the nationality for a passport of convenience. But obviously a lot of British do not see things your way as is witnessed by a large number of them taking up nationalities of US, Australia etc. Neither does the British government interpret that achieving Britishness means that you have to foresake any other affiliation with any other country as it is allowed to hold dual citizenships.

In a highly globalised world, passports become more of a necessary convenience than an strong affiliation to a particular government or that country. If your Russian partner were to settle for her ILR and would not try and get naturalised and would rather apply for visas every time she wants to go to any other EU country and would go through all the hassle of getting work permits etc if she wants to work in any other EU state just so that she can hold her Russian passport, its her choice. Whether it is smart one or not is where we differ on.

Everyone feels a strong sense of being a part of the niche that they grew up in. A passport has almost nothing to do with the way person feels about a particular country. Had that been the case a Chinese born and bred in a country like Bahrain would really be confused to what he is supposed to feel. Growing up in an Arab country, his way of life would almost entirely be Arabic whether it be food or language or any other aspect of life, but the moment he is to turn 18 he will have to leave the country that is ingrained in his flesh and blood as he would not be allowed to get an extension to the dependant visa by his parents any more. If he does not qualify to stay in his own right he will be deported to a country of which the language he does not know, the food he might find gross, a culture that he cannot comprehend etc all because arab countries would not exhibit a shred of humanity and grant passports to anyone not born to an arab.

From the way I read your post, I get the feeling that you would be against anyone getting the British passport unless they are born in UK. What else can I deduce from a post that says that you did not apply for the Irish citizenship just because you dont feel Irish and that your Russian partner will not be getting naturalised as well for almost the same reasons?

Russia, I am not entirely convinced that the reason you are whining about in a forum has anything to do with the explanation Wanderer gave. There is an apparent difference between the posts made by a bitter person who feels terrible that a law abiding couple was successful in their Immigration applications while some others like loozit have not been quite as lucky. Immigration like any other system with a set of rules and laws will have people who suffer because of it and one who benefit from it. From the judicial system in which an alleged paedophile has to be set free or a murdering sports star walks free because of the lack of evidence while people convicted of a crime and died in prison only to be proven innocent after decades using modern techniques to random everyday things in life is not perfect. Some people get lucky brakes while others do not. What do you propose next? Sulk that talented mucisians, entrepreneurs and sports-persons get exorbitant salaries while ordinary people are stuck in their meagre salaries? Take this as an advice if you can- Get a life! Instead of coming back with posts featuring "tossers" and "whoring" etc try to attain something that currently seems way beyond your grasp - class! And you might accidently start feeling good about this world.

[Russia]

Russia, I am not entirely convinced that the reason you are whining about in a forum has anything to do with the explanation Wanderer gave. There is an apparent difference between the posts made by a bitter person who feels terrible that a law abiding couple was successful in their Immigration applications while some others like loozit have not been quite as lucky. Immigration like any other system with a set of rules and laws will have people who suffer because of it and one who benefit from it. From the judicial system in which an alleged paedophile has to be set free or a murdering sports star walks free because of the lack of evidence while people convicted of a crime and died in prison only to be proven innocent after decades using modern techniques to random everyday things in life is not perfect. Some people get lucky brakes while others do not. What do you propose next? Sulk that talented mucisians, entrepreneurs and sports-persons get exorbitant salaries while ordinary people are stuck in their meagre salaries? Take this as an advice if you can- Get a life! Instead of coming back with posts featuring "tossers" and "whoring" etc try to attain something that currently seems way beyond your grasp - class! And you might accidently start feeling good about this world.

BRILLIANT I cannot say I've laughed so much in a while - CLASS this from someone that lives in Stoke on Trent. Perhaps, I can offer YOU some advice, take a trip up the M6 (yeah, I know there's a possibility of a nose bleed going so far up north), but maybe WANDERER will make you a nice cuppa tea - soothe that festering wound from the 'CAN YOU AFFORD 4000GBP VISA' thread.
I know this is off-thread, but seeing as this is turning into a free-4-all, got a question - How CONTRIBUTORS/MODS on this forum are actually BRITISH ie: WHITE ANGLO SAXON, I'd loosen it up a little and include our Aussie and Kiwi buddies - can't label someone a foreign waller all his life just because of a touch of peadophilia or theiving by his GGGrandparents!
So come on then - bet a few of you are sympathetic to the OP because of your own family's chain migration antics.
The only reason these people are able to flout the system is because of an appeassing shower of sh#te we call a government and the joke that is our immigration policy. You can call me bitter (though you have no grounds to do so) but mark these words, if you want a BNP councillor or MP in your neighbourhood, or god-forbid, one of those nutters as Prime Minister, you go right ahead and continue offering up your do-goody advice to people like the OP - for you can be sure as hell they won't be bothered to cast their expat vote when its needed.

Yours truly,

A Prole.

[sakura]

Is it just me that's getting a little confused here?

I think I understand Wanderer's post, though- (I think) he means the OP's wife becoming a BC just so the OP can get a British passport quicker, without his wife possibly feeling/wanting to be British? Yes it does suck if the only reason you apply for a nationality is to pass it on to someone else quicker. But I hope the OP's wife would think hard to decide whether she really feels British enough to apply, not just doing it for her husband's sake. No, that is a good point that Wanderer made (but I got confused about the "we British" thing...I don't think the Irish or Welsh or Scottish call themselves "Brits" very often...look at tennis with Andy Murray).

But this forum is to help people who genuinely want to contribute to UK society and to do it legally, one can't judge as to whether all the OPs "feel" british at the time of applying...at the end of the day many, if not all, the posters have spent a large part of their lives in another country. But it is good to show that you do feel part of British society and want to live here (which is part of the naturalisation application, no?). But is the point that it should be made harder (i.e. longer qualifying period, other types of tests, no dual/tri nationality permitted, lie detector test)?

To be honest, in this day nationality is more a 'qualifying' thing than a 'belonging' thing...it's all standardised...you live here for x years and you can become a BC...they are trying to change it, I think.


The funny thing is- loads of British people (i.e. born and bred Brits) complain about the UK and what do they do? "I'm going to Australia/Canada/NZ/Hong Kong/USA....can't stand it here anymore"...See all the nurses, doctors, teachers, everyone, leaving for 'down under'...why is that? Why do people say the UK has "changed" so much, and what do they mean?

[JAJ]

No, that is a good point that Wanderer made (but I got confused about the "we British" thing...I don't think the Irish or Welsh or Scottish call themselves "Brits" very often...look at tennis with Andy Murray).

They certainly don't want to call themselves English. And it's not really appreciated when the term British is misappropriated to mean "English".

Of course the southern Irish aren't even British any longer.

[Russia]

The funny thing is- loads of British people (i.e. born and bred Brits) complain about the UK and what do they do? "I'm going to Australia/Canada/NZ/Hong Kong/USA....can't stand it here anymore"...See all the nurses, doctors, teachers, everyone, leaving for 'down under'...why is that? Why do people say the UK has "changed" so much, and what do they mean?

Excellent question, and so rarely asked - as a Brit by your criteria I feel qualified to answer - but first the humourous answer (one trait we are famous for, and IMHO something that should be part of the citizenship test!)

Because they are economic migrants

But seriously, as in any culture there are people stuck in the dark ages. For instance, those that took Enoch Powells River of Blood speech to literally and got spooked.

an extract from the 1968 speech

A week or two ago I fell into conversation with a constituent, a middle-aged, quite ordinary working man employed in one of our nationalized industries. After a sentence or two about the weather, he suddenly said: 'If I had the money to go, I wouldn't stay in this country.' I made some deprecatory reply, to the effect that even this Government wouldn't last for ever; but he took no notice, and continued: 'I have three children, all of them have been through grammar school and two of them married now, with family. I shan't be satisfied till I have seen them settled overseas. In this country in fifteen or twenty years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man.'

Another group is the group I belong in, those that found love and marriage abroad and settled there - then you have the suntan brigade - and finally, the economic migrants (yes really, it wasn't such a joke afterall).
You see, we Brits don't take kindly to being told what we can and cannot do - if we don't like something we either take a long walk, or we fight, then again the weaker among us stick it out grumbling and moaning - they're the ones that tend to eak out a living preaching to the rest of the world how they ought live their interesting, diverse and entertaining lives.

Simple really, us Brits.

[JAJ]

The funny thing is- loads of British people (i.e. born and bred Brits) complain about the UK and what do they do? "I'm going to Australia/Canada/NZ/Hong Kong/USA....can't stand it here anymore"...See all the nurses, doctors, teachers, everyone, leaving for 'down under'...why is that? Why do people say the UK has "changed" so much, and what do they mean?

Ironically, many of those who leave for purely negative reasons end up returning to the UK. Or staying in their adopted home complaining about that too.

[tanim_84]

hello every1

i just came across this forum... its just marvellous how people can take the time to help other people out without any benefit or interest to themselves... its a very appreciatable act of selflessness... cheers to every1 related to this forum...

i myself am seeking some advice... this would be my first post and i hope im posting in the right section...

im a student here in the uk from bangladesh... ive been here for almost two years now... my girlfriend is czech n is working here for a little over a year... we are thinking of getting married... this raised some queries for us:

1. would i be treated as an eu citizen when we get married or have the same rights? would i qualify for the local/eea citizen tuition fees?
2. if my girlfriend lives in the uk for 5 years, will she qualify for permanent residency? n will she be eligible to apply for BC a year after?
3. will it be possible for me to get BC thereafter though her?

also ive been reading previous posts and i find myself not familiar at all with abbreviations/terms related to this like EEA1 or ILR... it would be great if you could explain...

we would be much obliged and grateful to you for your replies...

thank you very much for your time.

[sakura]

Tanim,

I can answer some questions:

1. would i be treated as an eu citizen when we get married or have the same rights? would i qualify for the local/eea citizen tuition fees?

Nope, you will be an international student even if you get married. University fees don't get reduced by getting married to an EEA national.

2. if my girlfriend lives in the uk for 5 years, will she qualify for permanent residency? n will she be eligible to apply for BC a year after?

Yes she will have PR after 5 years in the UK, and if she wants to apply for BC, in her 6th year (maybe she needs to pass some tests, and check whether Czech Rep. allows dual nationality, if she wants to be a BC).

3. will it be possible for me to get BC thereafter though her?

You should make the BIA website your first point of contact if you don't understand anything. Better look through the rules, policies and application forms before anything else, just so you know how things work, otherwise you'll be traipsing through a thick wedge of posts to get all necessary information.[/quote]