Rejected, timeline/full refusal letter attached, pls help!

[sunnymay]

Hi,

Here is my timeline:

14 August 2013: Applied by special next day delivery
16 August 2013: Acknowledgement date
31 August 2013: Biometrics given
24 September 2013: Refusal date

Applied as a team, funds equivalent to £50K in team member's overseas bank account which is regulated by the FSA/FCA/PRA.

With my application, I sent a covering letter with this list of documents:

Full List of Supporting Documents

Dear Sir/Madam,

The following is a list of all supporting documents that I have supplied with my application.

Documents supporting Investment Funds
1x Covering Letter
1x Third Party Bank Balance Letter from xxx Bank
1x Third Party Declaration Letter
1x Legal Representative Letter
1x FCA/PRA Website Printout showing xxx Bank is regulated

Documents supporting Business Activity
1x Current Appointments Report
2x Internet Advertising Printouts
1x Trading Contract
1x Business Plan
1x Curriculum Vitae
1x Website printout
1x Email Correspondence with Potential Client
1x Professional Indemnity Insurance

Documents supporting Maintenance Funds
1x Bank Statements from zzz with official stamp

Documents supporting English Language Ability
1x Original Degree Certificate
1x Original Transcript

Official Identification Documents
1x Passport (Number xxx)
1x Biometric Residence Permit (Number xxx)

Please do not hesitate to contact me at 07xxxxxxx or xxx@xxx.com if you require any further information.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and assistance.

Yours faithfully,

Also a covering letter explaining that the bank will not add my name onto my team mate's balance letter. My team mate also mentioned this on her covering letter. Both covering letters state that the bank where the funds are held is regulated by the FCA/PRA (FSA), and we have both provided printouts of the FSA website showing the same.

Both team mates were rejected, and this is my refusal letter, with the following reasons:

1. The letter from the xxx bank does not name you as the recipient of the third party funds. It also does not state the funds are available for use in the UK. (Page 3)

Answer: The covering letter has already explained that it is not possible for the bank to name me as a recipient of the funds. Furthermore the bank is regulated by the FSA - Table 4 and paragraph 41 (a)(i)(11) states that a confirmation that the money can be transferred into the UK is required if the institution is not regulated by the FSA, in this case the bank is regulated.

2. Contract does not provide client landline number

Answer: The client would not do so as it is not part of their contract template. However an email contact was provided, as was the client's address. The contract was signed by both companies and both team members. - can this point be argued based on evidential flexibility?



My team mate was also rejected based on funds not being transferable to the UK and no landline number provided.

My last question is, can we attend an oral appeal without the help of a lawyer - has anyone successfully done so, or is it better to just get a lawyer?

Thanks for reading, and any suggestions are very much appreciated.

[top]

dear Sir or Madam,

what happened is not something that you could stop happening because a Bank will not give out a letter which says money to be available for a party from account holder so same letter can also not say money transferable to UK as its up on an account holder the way they use their funds in country or out of country for such a situation as this all you needed to have third party bank writing a bottom line stating bank is being regulated by FSA or home regulator where as third party as you can not be mentioned on.
if the letter from third party that you provided did say bank is regulated by FSA or home regulator(I am talking specifically letter not the print outs you provided) it can not be said money can not be transferred into the UK because it is against their own policy.
having no land line number on contract your client does not have one,how can I force anyone to have one loll.. let me tell you for the sake of your satisfaction these two objections have repeatedly been beaten in courts many time before.

never fight an appeal without a lawyer always ask for oral hearing(your lawyer would say the same) as there are hidden aspects within law and case only a lawyer can deal with..

hope above helps if there has been anything above your head please ask..

[sunnymay]

dear Sir or Madam,

what happened is not something that you could stop happening because a Bank will not give out a letter which says money to be available for a party from account holder so same letter can also not say money transferable to UK as its up on an account holder the way they use their funds in country or out of country for such a situation as this all you needed to have third party bank writing a bottom line stating bank is being regulated by FSA or home regulator where as third party as you can not be mentioned on.
if the letter from third party that you provided did say bank is regulated by FSA or home regulator(I am talking specifically letter not the print outs you provided) it can not be said money can not be transferred into the UK because it is against their own policy.
having no land line number on contract your client does not have one,how can I force anyone to have one loll.. let me tell you for the sake of your satisfaction these two objections have repeatedly been beaten in courts many time before.

never fight an appeal without a lawyer always ask for oral hearing(your lawyer would say the same) as there are hidden aspects within law and case only a lawyer can deal with..

hope above helps if there has been anything above your head please ask..

Hello Top, thanks very much for your reply!

Indeed the bank where the £50k funds are held is regulated by the FSA.. so it is really frustrating for them to have given us a rejection based on that reason

Thank you for your advice regarding a lawyer as well, I think I would have to start looking for a good one - do you have any recommendations?

[top]

that is another thing you need to be careful of:

you should have meetings with more than one as the way they talk on your case should give you an idea if she/he is the right one, look for a local 1st because you might need more than one meetings with same person.

there are 2 different things less people know about it (well they know after they are screwed )when you sign up with a lawyer preparing and representing your case which normally does not include the price if they go along with you to the hearing/court, ask then if their fee includes their presence in court on hearing date.

if you think you have speaking ability up to a level where you could defend your case by speaking effectively as there could be more questions that they(Judge and HO representative) might raise then you need a representation/preparation only otherwise take your lawyer with you..

ask yourself..

[Olasunkanmi]

Hi,

Here is my timeline:

14 August 2013: Applied by special next day delivery
16 August 2013: Acknowledgement date
31 August 2013: Biometrics given
24 September 2013: Refusal date

Applied as a team, funds equivalent to £50K in team member's overseas bank account which is regulated by the FSA/FCA/PRA.

With my application, I sent a covering letter with this list of documents:

Full List of Supporting Documents

Dear Sir/Madam,

The following is a list of all supporting documents that I have supplied with my application.

Documents supporting Investment Funds
1x Covering Letter
1x Third Party Bank Balance Letter from xxx Bank
1x Third Party Declaration Letter
1x Legal Representative Letter
1x FCA/PRA Website Printout showing xxx Bank is regulated

Documents supporting Business Activity
1x Current Appointments Report
2x Internet Advertising Printouts
1x Trading Contract
1x Business Plan
1x Curriculum Vitae
1x Website printout
1x Email Correspondence with Potential Client
1x Professional Indemnity Insurance

Documents supporting Maintenance Funds
1x Bank Statements from zzz with official stamp

Documents supporting English Language Ability
1x Original Degree Certificate
1x Original Transcript

Official Identification Documents
1x Passport (Number xxx)
1x Biometric Residence Permit (Number xxx)

Please do not hesitate to contact me at 07xxxxxxx or xxx@xxx.com if you require any further information.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and assistance.

Yours faithfully,

Also a covering letter explaining that the bank will not add my name onto my team mate's balance letter. My team mate also mentioned this on her covering letter. Both covering letters state that the bank where the funds are held is regulated by the FCA/PRA (FSA), and we have both provided printouts of the FSA website showing the same.

Both team mates were rejected, and this is my refusal letter, with the following reasons:

1. The letter from the xxx bank does not name you as the recipient of the third party funds. It also does not state the funds are available for use in the UK. (Page 3)

Answer: The covering letter has already explained that it is not possible for the bank to name me as a recipient of the funds. Furthermore the bank is regulated by the FSA - Table 4 and paragraph 41 (a)(i)(11) states that a confirmation that the money can be transferred into the UK is required if the institution is not regulated by the FSA, in this case the bank is regulated.

2. Contract does not provide client landline number

Answer: The client would not do so as it is not part of their contract template. However an email contact was provided, as was the client's address. The contract was signed by both companies and both team members. - can this point be argued based on evidential flexibility?



My team mate was also rejected based on funds not being transferable to the UK and no landline number provided.

My last question is, can we attend an oral appeal without the help of a lawyer - has anyone successfully done so, or is it better to just get a lawyer?

Thanks for reading, and any suggestions are very much appreciated.

@ sunnymay, did u and your entrepreneur team member get a letter from the third party stating that the 50k funds is available for both of you? Or did the third party letter only mention your entrepreneur team member's name on it? These fact need to be clarify in other to understand your case.

[sunnymay]

@ sunnymay, did u and your entrepreneur team member get a letter from the third party stating that the 50k funds is available for both of you? Or did the third party letter only mention your entrepreneur team member's name on it? These fact need to be clarify in other to understand your case.

Hi Olasunkanmi, thanks for replying.

My team member IS the third party (for me) - the funds are in her name. However, she has also been rejected based on not having access to the funds, her letter just doesn't state that she is not named as the third party recipient, it just says "it does not state the funds are available for use in the UK" - but they are, because the bank is a FSA regulated institution.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ sunnymay, did u and your entrepreneur team member get a letter from the third party stating that the 50k funds is available for both of you? Or did the third party letter only mention your entrepreneur team member's name on it? These fact need to be clarify in other to understand your case.

Hi Olasunkanmi, thanks for replying.

My team member IS the third party (for me) - the funds are in her name. However, she has also been rejected based on not having access to the funds, her letter just doesn't state that she is not named as the third party recipient, it just says "it does not state the funds are available for use in the UK" - but they are, because the bank is a FSA regulated institution.

@ sunnymay, it is a very tricky situation as your entrepreneurial team member is also your third party sponsor. Caseworkers are usually overwhelmed with third party letter alone not to talk of third party/entrepreneurial team member.

Technically, your entrepreneurial team member can be your third party, but with the negligence by caseworkers at the moment it would have been better to make the whole thing simple for the caseworker by making the money accessible to both of you. You can do this be either transferring the money into joint account or business account in UK which both of you can get letters for from the bank.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ sunnymay, if you guys still have visa left, then the best option is to transfer the money into a joint or business account in UK and then submit a fresh application as appealing against the decision is not certain to be straightforward.

[sunnymay]

@ sunnymay, it is a very tricky situation as your entrepreneurial team member is also your third party sponsor. Caseworkers are usually overwhelmed with third party letter alone not to talk of third party/entrepreneurial team member.

Technically, your entrepreneurial team member can be your third party, but with the negligence by caseworkers at the moment it would have been better to make the whole thing simple for the caseworker by making the money accessible to both of you. You can do this be either transferring the money into joint account or business account in UK which both of you can get letters for from the bank.

If they were going to reject my application based on the fact that the bank letter does not have my name on it, we could raise that point during the appeal, but the funds are clearly in an institution that is regulated by the FSA/FCA/PRA - there was no reason why they would not have given the "access to funds" points for my team member.. it is just very frustrating and perturbing!!

Because the funds are overseas, it'll be quite expensive to transfer the funds here and there we're not going to get approval - that was my team member's consideration when she left the funds in a FSA regulated institution (because the guidance states as long as the bank is regulated, we don't have to show that funds are transferable). But this is exactly the reason why the both of us didn't get the points for having access to funds.

@ sunnymay, if you guys still have visa left, then the best option is to transfer the money into a joint or business account in UK and then submit a fresh application as appealing against the decision is not certain to be straightforward.

Both our visas have expired - we can only appeal

[Olasunkanmi]

@ sunnymay, it is a very tricky situation as your entrepreneurial team member is also your third party sponsor. Caseworkers are usually overwhelmed with third party letter alone not to talk of third party/entrepreneurial team member.

Technically, your entrepreneurial team member can be your third party, but with the negligence by caseworkers at the moment it would have been better to make the whole thing simple for the caseworker by making the money accessible to both of you. You can do this be either transferring the money into joint account or business account in UK which both of you can get letters for from the bank.

If they were going to reject my application based on the fact that the bank letter does not have my name on it, we could raise that point during the appeal, but the funds are clearly in an institution that is regulated by the FSA/FCA/PRA - there was no reason why they would not have given the "access to funds" points for my team member.. it is just very frustrating and perturbing!!

Because the funds are overseas, it'll be quite expensive to transfer the funds here and there we're not going to get approval - that was my team member's consideration when she left the funds in a FSA regulated institution (because the guidance states as long as the bank is regulated, we don't have to show that funds are transferable). But this is exactly the reason why the both of us didn't get the points for having access to funds.

@ sunnymay, if you guys still have visa left, then the best option is to transfer the money into a joint or business account in UK and then submit a fresh application as appealing against the decision is not certain to be straightforward.

Both our visas have expired - we can only appeal

@ sunnymay, you guys would have needed to transfer the funds within 3years anyway if you had been given the visa, so one of the options is to transfer the funds now to a UK account and prepare a fresh application to submit after appeal decision if not in your favour.

Transferring the fund to a UK bank account now will also help u guys at your appeal hearing as you can explain to the judge that one of the refusal reasons is that funds is not transferable and that you have proof that decision to be wrong by transferring your funds to a UK bank account from the same account that the caseworker was in doubt of.

Your second refusal reason of no landline number on contract has been fought against successfully by some forum members under ''Evidential flexibility'' and I believe you guys should be able to defend that also.

[sunnymay]

@ sunnymay, you guys would have needed to transfer the funds within 3years anyway if you had been given the visa, so one of the options is to transfer the funds now to a UK account and prepare a fresh application to submit after appeal decision if not in your favour.

Transferring the fund to a UK bank account now will also help u guys at your appeal hearing as you can explain to the judge that one of the refusal reasons is that funds is not transferable and that you have proof that decision to be wrong by transferring your funds to a UK bank account from the same account that the caseworker was in doubt of.

Your second refusal reason of no landline number on contract has been fought against successfully by some forum members under ''Evidential flexibility'' and I believe you guys should be able to defend that also.

Hi Olasunkanmi,

Thanks for your help.

We will have to prepare our appeal and see how it goes. Hopefully the judge will see that we have actually fulfilled their requirements.


Does anyone have any recommendations for good and competent appeal solicitors? Please PM me! Thanks!

[Khan881]

Hi Olasunkanmi,
Is it possible to make fresh application if the visa is expired?

[sunnymay]

Hi Olasunkanmi,
Is it possible to make fresh application if the visa is expired?

Hello,

I thought it was impossible too, but I spoke to a solicitor today who said as long as you are in the process of applying/appealing, your previous immigration status would stand, and you can make a fresh application. I'm just really confused at this point to be honest...

[mcr2013]

mostly people got refused just because of letter wording. coz banks got their own format they dont care about the UKBA guidance and policy. buu according to policy you can achive 25 points for access of funds and 25 points money is transferable to UK...To achieve these 50 points u have to mention in the letter funds are disposable and transferable to UK otherwise u will loose the points.......

[mcr2013]

mostly people got refused just because of letter wording. coz banks got their own format they dont care about the UKBA guidance and policy. buu according to policy you can achive 25 points for access of funds and 25 points money is transferable to UK...To achieve these 50 points u have to mention in the letter funds are disposable and transferable to UK otherwise u will loose the points.......