EEA permit with no valid visa

[Rose73]

Hi

I am EU national recently married to not EU national. We are living in USA.

My employer is transferring my position to their UK location. I have received UK contract we are looking to relocate permanently. They have contracted UK lawyer to apply for EEa permit for my husband.

I did lots of reseach before and I think I have good understanding of my EU rights and what is required.

However, the lawyer is asking me to submit:
6 months bank statement with mainternance funds

Cost of the trip and who is paying for it

My husbands current US visa- this is a problem as his visa has expired and he doesnt have valud status.

I dont know what to do but I am desperate and worried. His visa issue has been following us everywhere.

Can our application be declined on this basis? Please help me.

[askmeplz82]

Ok here is the problem how he will apply for EEA family permit from USA without any valid leave there.

best thing for him to go back to his country and apply from there

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

It is possible to apply for a family permit outside country of residence. The applicant would be required to give biometric data. Given that the US and UK share data, it is likely that visa irregularities would come to the attention of the US authorities. I have no information on what that might mean for you.

There is no requirement to provide financial information nor proof of funding trip.

[cafeconleche]

Well, either way, depending on how long he's been in the US out of status, it will trigger either a 3 year ban (if out of status for between 6 months and a year) or a 10 year ban (if out of status for more than a year) when he leaves the country even if they don't find out when he's still inside.

[Rose73]

Thank you all.

We are aware of the biometric data requirement and we are not sure how it will affect us if he doesnt check out against US immigration database, but we hope that we will leave US before any immigration action here would take place.

We are aware of the ban but there is nothing we can do about it, for now we do not intent to come back to US.


But as far as EEA there is no question on the application asking anything related to visa status in country of presence. so I am assuming it is not required?

We insisted on having lawyer to deal with our case, but now I am dissapointed after she send me quested for all that documentation I listed above (bank statements, contract), I tought she would be the one telling me it is not required, not me telling them! So honestly I am doubting what kind of experts they are and what kind of help I can expect.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

You will note that the EEA family permit form does indeed ask for a lot of information that ought not to be required to make a decision. There are many different types of applicant, some of whom do require to demonstrate financial dependency.

For spouses of EU workers, it's pretty simple - evidence that one is married to an EU national, evidence that the EU national is working or intends to work in the UK.

[Rose73]

How does it work then in the case when he applies for EEA permit from his home country.
Does he also need to submit my passport with the application? Or will copy be sufficient?

We are thinking to leave USA on the same day, with me going to London to start my job and him going to his home country to start the application process.
Obviously I will need my passport as otherwise I dont have any other document on me.

[askmeplz82]

READ MORE HERE....

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 14867.html

[Rose73]

READ MORE HERE....

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 14867.html

Thank you

I found that it can be passport copy certified by our embassy. So i will have to do that.

[Rose73]

Ok here is the problem how he will apply for EEA family permit from USA without any valid leave there.

best thing for him to go back to his country and apply from there

this is what I found on UKBA website


EUN2.2 Where can an EEA family permit be issued?

EEA family permits may be obtained from any visa issuing post. It is not necessary for an applicant to be lawfully or normally resident in the country to apply.


So I dont know. Valid status doesnt seem to be a requirement for EEA permit or one of the valid grounds for refusal.

so there are 2 options:
1) Apply in the USA and see what happens
But I dont know if it makes sense to play with it and try and get declined or something.

2) apply from his home country
I have read all the questions on the application and IF I understand them good we dont even need to disclose this to UKBA. They only ask if he had ever any visa declined, which he didnt or any criminal offences, charges or deportations, which he didnt. So if he applies from his country they possibly would never know.

I dont know if his USA history can slap us back in UK again in regards to EEA permit or futher residence applications and we should avoid them knowing at all costs - as far as we are answering questions truthfully.

We really would like to avoid applying from his country, it would be very expensive for him to travel and stay there and means I would have to move to UK alone first as I have to start my job while he is still in his home country- the processing there takes 3-4 weeks.

[Rose73]

Just want to say that I appreciate everyone's help and contributions.

UK law is kind of new to me and the amount of reading is overwhelming, so I apologise if I ask something already asked 100 times.

[dalebutt]

Like seriously how many times do you want to be told legal residence is not a requirement for EEA family permit? If you came to seek people's opinion on here, you should have made your mind up about accepting that opinion, repetition of questions after numerous answers even by a MOD is quite really annoying.

When applying for EEA family permits; Financial requirements are not a requirement, legal residence in the country of application is absolutely not necessary, if you have genuine questions other than previously addressed , please ask away. UK authorities would not consider his residence status when making a decision on his family permits application, it will be no different from another applicant who has legal residence. This priviledge IS ONLY ACCORDED TO EEA FAMILY PERMITS APPLICANTS.

[Rose73]

Hi


thank everyone.

So far we have not decided where we are going to apply for EEA permit as it looks like our solicitor is of the opinion he needs to apply in his home country.


Anyway

just would like to check what do you think about:

going to his home country and applying for Schengen visa from there- I can provide invitation letters from my family in my EEA home country- so purpose would be visiting my family.
Looks like again, he can not apply for Schengen visa from USA.

Once with Schengen visa, try to cross into UK from France, either by train or ferry and request 1A stamp at port of entry.

For this plan, would I need to accompany him or he could do that on his own?

Also to apply for Shengen visa, I know the rules are saying you need to apply at the country which is your main destination, however our country does not have embassy in his country, so would it be OK to apply at French embassy with county of entry to Shengen being France, but main destination is my country?


It would be great if airlines would board him directly to UK from USA without EEA permit but from what I read that is taking huge risk of being declined boarding. And airlines here are probably even less familiar wirh EEA regulations than airlines in EU.

[dalebutt]

It is actually amusing that you read it yourself on the UKBA website and you still choose to believe a solicitor who's probably never dealt with such application in his life, you read it yourself and you chose to believe otherwise? Good luck with your pursuit, I hope he won't end up spending another year in his home country. Shocking!

[Rose73]

It is actually amusing that you read it yourself on the UKBA website and you still choose to believe a solicitor who's probably never dealt with such application in his life, you read it yourself and you chose to believe otherwise? Good luck with your pursuit, I hope he won't end up spending another year in his home country. Shocking!

I did not say I choose to believe solicitor. I am just considering my options and possibilities and gathering information so I can come up wtih some plan and possibly also back-up plan. I was not able to find any similar case like ours yet, maybe there is not one?

I am more inclined to believe people here ( and I do believe it is truth what you said above).

What I am not sure is how it will work in reality, and whether the law will be applied correctly.

It is not easy for us, as my husband had so much bad experience with immigration in the past, he was trying to adjust his status several times and it never worked, I went through a lot of status changes many times as well for past 13 years but always lucked out.

So at this point we are both over paranoic, that is why we have insisted on having our case handled by solicitor, my company is paying them huge amount of money as their are prestige firm. So far that was the info I got from them. I am going to wait to see how they will explain whatever UKBA website say about where one can apply.

[dalebutt]

Really your company is paying this person? What exactly would he do when you apply for the FP? Will he be pressuring UKBA to issue family permit? He will do absolutely nothing to strengthen your application, if you qualified, you will be granted, if you didn't you will be refused, it's as simple as that, he must be laughing all the way to the bank, if I had a job, and I am rubbish at it, and still getting paid huge amount of money for being rubbish wouldn't I be the luckiest person ever? Talk about laugh out loud indeed.

Your case is not uncommon if you must know, UKBA officer's need not be told about this one, they know legal residence is not a requirement, the thing is, if your spouse went to his country to apply, I don't know where he is from, his application is likely and most definitely be subject to more scrutiny, even then if he encountered delay, and the so called solicitor try to intervene on his behalf they are most likely to be ignored altogether until the ECO is satisfied of wasting another applicant's time.

In a nutshell, he will not enjoy the priviledge he will enjoy if applying from the US. whilst you are at it considering your options, why not send en email to the embassy? this is not so hard to do?

[Rose73]

Really your company is paying this person? What exactly would he do when you apply for the FP? Will he be pressuring UKBA to issue family permit? He will do absolutely nothing to strengthen your application, if you qualified, you will be granted, if you didn't you will be refused, it's as simple as that, he must be laughing all the way to the bank, if I had a job, and I am rubbish at it, and still getting paid huge amount of money for being rubbish wouldn't I be the luckiest person ever? Talk about laugh out loud indeed.

Your case is not uncommon if you must know, UKBA officer's need not be told about this one, they know legal residence is not a requirement, the thing is, if your spouse went to his country to apply, I don't know where he is from, his application is likely and most definitely be subject to more scrutiny, even then if he encountered delay, and the so called solicitor try to intervene on his behalf they are most likely to be ignored altogether until the ECO is satisfied of wasting another applicant's time.

In a nutshell, he will not enjoy the priviledge he will enjoy if applying from the US. whilst you are at it considering your options, why not send en email to the embassy? this is not so hard to do?

I am also dissapointed and it is a huge waste of money but mostly major frustration for us. I dont have much experience with lawyers as until now I have done all my applications by myself, except my H1B, so not sure what to expect, but certainly I was expecting some better advice than I was given by the advisor.
So far they haven't done anything for us.

Since we are on the timeline and at this point do not want to wait anymore I have decided to apply from US based on the advices here. Fingers crossed.

We are enclosing:
my EEA passport
letter from me stating that I wish to excercise my treaty rights and travel to UK and want my husband to join me
our marriage certificate from USA, dated 2013

we are not going to mention anything about US visa or status.

other possible documentation, not required by law but since we have it should we include or not? Dont know if it would give us advantage or dissadvantage:

my UK offer letter and contract of employment
proof of durability of our relationship- from our before marriage times- joint bank acct with both names for past 6 years, car insurance policy with both names for past 8 years, health insurance policy with my husband being my dependend as domestic partner for past 4 years, apartment lease with both names for 2005-2007 and 2012-2014

[chaoclive]

If it's not required by law, I wouldn't bother adding it (that's my personal opinion). In your letter, you might want to make state something like "if there are any queries in relation to this visa please contact me on [phone number/email]." That way at least you have been open to discussion. Of course, your letter should also note that you are applying under Directive 2004/38/EC.

I'm not sure that you have said which EU nationality you hold. As long as it is not British, there shouldn't be any issue with granting the visa at all. Some British Embassies in the USA even issued the visa to the spouse of a dual Irish/British citizen (which should NOT happen). I don't foresee them refusing the spouse of someone who doesn't have British citizenship.

I don't foresee any issues (as long as you're not British).

Please update when you're done!

Good luck

[chaoclive]

We are enclosing:
my EEA passport
letter from me stating that I wish to excercise my treaty rights and travel to UK and want my husband to join me
our marriage certificate from USA, dated 2013

Obviously you will add his passport and the application form...sorry, stating the obvious.

[obormot]

You do not need to send them your passport. Just a copy of your passport certified by your embassy. Plus his passport, his photo, your marriage certificate, and a cover letter from you.
Other documents are not needed (if you wish, you could include your job offer from UK, and some proof that you lived together).
I applied (without any lawyer) for a FP in USA for my elderly mother (I am French, she is not EU) last April. It was easy, and we got her passport back with FP in less then 3 weeks. If I would be you I would ditch that solicitor and do it myself. Application itself is free.
One problem is that on the forms they explicitly ask for a proof that applicant is in USA legally (visa, green card, etc.), and my mom was legal. But by law they should give him FP even if he overstayed. In my opinion, there is a very good chance they will. So I would just try to apply to UK embassy in USA first, and only if it does not work would go for alternatives like applying from his home country (for a Schengen visa or directly for UK FP)

[Rose73]

If it's not required by law, I wouldn't bother adding it (that's my personal opinion). In your letter, you might want to make state something like "if there are any queries in relation to this visa please contact me on [phone number/email]." That way at least you have been open to discussion. Of course, your letter should also note that you are applying under Directive 2004/38/EC.

I'm not sure that you have said which EU nationality you hold. As long as it is not British, there shouldn't be any issue with granting the visa at all. Some British Embassies in the USA even issued the visa to the spouse of a dual Irish/British citizen (which should NOT happen). I don't foresee them refusing the spouse of someone who doesn't have British citizenship.

I don't foresee any issues (as long as you're not British).

Please update when you're done!

Good luck

Thank you.
That is very good to hear.


No I am not British, of course then my case would be much more complicated.


this is what i wrote in my letter.
As I read here on the boards, important points to stress are excersising rights under directive, traveling together and our relationship. The sentence about my job is extra. My company is large and known with good reputation so i hope that would help.

My name ____ and I am a national of European Union. I hereby certify that I wish to travel to United Kingdom to exercise my right of free movement as stated in the Free Movement Directive 2004/38/EC and would like my husband non-EEA national to join me.
Thereofore, I would like to ask you to favorably consider his application and issue EEA family permit for him so we can travel together from USA to UK in February 2014 when my current employer expects me to start my job at their UK location.

As a proof of my EEA nationality, please find enclosed certified copy of my current EEA passport.
As a proof of XY being my direct family member as defined in the directive, please find enclosed our marriage certificate. Our relationship with XY began in year 2003. We have been living together in marriage-like relationship since 2005. We got married in year 2013 and intend to live together permanently. Please find attached some additional documents proving durability of our relationship, such as:

and then list of the documents I mentioned above, I am thinking I will include maybe 3 documents


Please be assured, that the information provided above is true and should you have any questions please contact me by email (my email) or by phone (my phone number)

[Rose73]

You do not need to send them your passport. Just a copy of your passport certified by your embassy. Plus his passport, his photo, your marriage certificate, and a cover letter from you.
Other documents are not needed (if you wish, you could include your job offer from UK, and some proof that you lived together).
I applied (without any lawyer) for a FP in USA for my elderly mother (I am French, she is not EU) last April. It was easy, and we got her passport back with FP in less then 3 weeks. If I would be you I would ditch that solicitor and do it myself. Application itself is free.
One problem is that on the forms they explicitly ask for a proof that applicant is in USA legally (visa, green card, etc.), and my mom was legal. But by law they should give him FP even if he overstayed. In my opinion, there is a very good chance they will. So I would just try to apply to UK embassy in USA first, and only if it does not work would go for alternatives like applying from his home country (for a Schengen visa or directly for UK FP)

Thank you for sharing your experience.
Do you mean it took 3 weeks or 3 days? They show their processing times as 5 days (93%).


I did not see on the application question about legal status, it is only listed in the list of supporting documents as something to include.


only possible related questions could be this:
Have you been deported, removed or otherwise required to leave any country including the UK in the last
10 years?

unless the questions pop us after the application is submitted online, I dont know
but I think we could reply: N/A for EEA permit

[SouthWest1]

Another suggestion, is to register your marriage in your native country embassy in US and then the embassy will issue him with an entry clearance or short term visa (depending on your native country laws) to travel. once this is issued, he can then apply for a FP from the British embassy in US.( this might overcome his current legal status in US as he will have legal residence in EU even if it is for short period like 3 months or so)
Again, based on your native country laws, this might take days to few weeks. if it is going to be a bit long then you can travel to UK to start your job and send over to him your payslips, rent agreement, bank account details and any other documents from UK as it will strength his position when applying for FP as it will prove that your are actually exercising treaty rights in UK.

[obormot]

Yes, I meant less then three weeks - altogether, from the day I sent application till the day I got documents back. Remember, you send the file, and they also send you to do biometrics, then they get it, then they "register" it, then they count their 5 or so days, then they make the decision and send you an e-mail that they made it, then they marinate your document another 2-3 days in sone transitional place to "prepare for sending out", then they give it to FedEx or like, and then the carrier takes a couple of days to bring it back to you..
And yes, there is no question about status in application, it is only on the list of supporting documents where they ask for it.

[obormot]

By the way, indeed - for example if one is married to a French citizen, then French embassy would easily issue him a free short term Schengen visitor visa (1 year multiple, with right of 3 months total presence in France/Schengen). And one only needs marriage certificate, passport and photo.
Thus, if FP does not work in USA (though it should), you might try to get your husband visa to go to Schengen from your county embassy, and then either apply there for FP or use train/ferry from France..